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Gravity well module
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Austris Strude
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2015-07-18 01:31:57 UTC
Hello all,

I have been thinking of a new high slot mod and bouncing ideas off a few people in game. I was interested in seeing what the community had to say about it.

The Idea comes from the fact that everything of mass, no matter how large, contains it's own gravitational pull. There for in space objects will pull other objects to them that are within their pulls distance. Planets and other large celestial masses are most known for this because we physically see the effect of a large scale gravity pull here on earth and have associated gravitational pull with larger masses even though everything still has one.

The module I've been thinking up would use a ships capacitor for a set amount of time (example: 10 seconds) to greatly increase the ships gravitational pull (or generate an artificial magnetic field, whichever makes more since in game), therefor pulling in anything and everything (intractable) within the ships gravity range toward the ship (to include wrecks, enemy ships, friendly ships, Concord, etc.) Of course ships with a larger mass would have a much stronger pull and longer range on the module than ships of smaller mass.

In order to escape the pull, a ship would need to build up enough speed/thrust to overcome it's own mass vs the ship pulling it in's gravitational pull which would be based on the generating ships mass. Frigates and other smaller ships would be able to avoid being trapped in the field of larger ships by orbiting near the edge of the modules range or keeping a very high velocity and slingshot themselves through the field and around the ship.

I'd like to read what you all think about this and would like to see more player module ideas. I love reading through them.
Kenrailae
Scrapyard Artificer's
#2 - 2015-07-18 01:44:12 UTC
On a small to mid scale the concept sounds interesting, but once you start trying to implement this server side it probably becomes very tricky. Unless this were a capital sort of module and only affected sub caps or whatnot, this would probably be too temperamental to implement.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#3 - 2015-07-18 06:21:35 UTC
RnK pipe bombing wet dream.

Sure woild make burn Jita much easier / cheaper.

Mining fleet up ahead get ready to suck them all in and 3 seconds later we loot and salvage.

Need i go on, probably not....

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
everender
Relentless Destruction
Immediate Destruction
#4 - 2015-07-18 09:19:41 UTC
lol
Iain Cariaba
#5 - 2015-07-18 15:22:00 UTC
So I get 10 Rohks with full racks of smartbombs, have one Rohk change out a smartbomb for this module, then let the chaos ensue. Yeah, this is an interesting idea, but way to open to abuse.

Even looking beyond how we will abuse it, there's this handy little formula that you should see, of which there's an actual calculator here. Using this calculator, the velocity to escape from this module using the mass of a full armor plate, MWD, Higgs rigged Rokh when orbiting at 1000m is 0.00672420m/s, and that speed goes down the farther away you get.. I had to add 9 zeros to the end of the Rokh's mass to get an escape velocity over 200m/s.
Alric Rosenthal
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#6 - 2015-07-18 16:35:53 UTC
Gravity is a weakly interacting force in our universe.

“War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.” - William Tecumseh Sherman
Kenrailae
Scrapyard Artificer's
#7 - 2015-07-18 18:04:28 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
So I get 10 Rohks with full racks of smartbombs, have one Rohk change out a smartbomb for this module, then let the chaos ensue. Yeah, this is an interesting idea, but way to open to abuse.

Even looking beyond how we will abuse it, there's this handy little formula that you should see, of which there's an actual calculator here. Using this calculator, the velocity to escape from this module using the mass of a full armor plate, MWD, Higgs rigged Rokh when orbiting at 1000m is 0.00672420m/s, and that speed goes down the farther away you get.. I had to add 9 zeros to the end of the Rokh's mass to get an escape velocity over 200m/s.

So for discussion sake, how does that change if you put the module on a nyx? Mobile posting so can't really play with the calculator myself? Super cap restrictions answer the jita concerns.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Austris Strude
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-07-18 18:07:04 UTC
You all bring up good points. and I appreciate the constructive feedback When I started this thread I didn't know how anyone would perceive the idea. This unit would be widely open for abuse but what isn't in eve. After all how would the effect of the unit work if more than one ship was using it at the same time? Calculations would start getting a little crazy after three or four units where turned on too close to one another.
Austris Strude
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2015-07-18 18:16:32 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
So I get 10 Rohks with full racks of smartbombs, have one Rohk change out a smartbomb for this module, then let the chaos ensue. Yeah, this is an interesting idea, but way to open to abuse.

Even looking beyond how we will abuse it, there's this handy little formula that you should see, of which there's an actual calculator here. Using this calculator, the velocity to escape from this module using the mass of a full armor plate, MWD, Higgs rigged Rokh when orbiting at 1000m is 0.00672420m/s, and that speed goes down the farther away you get.. I had to add 9 zeros to the end of the Rokh's mass to get an escape velocity over 200m/s.

So for discussion sake, how does that change if you put the module on a nyx? Mobile posting so can't really play with the calculator myself? Super cap restrictions answer the jita concerns.



I'm not sure how to finish the calculation for you but what I put into the calculator was the Nyx base mass of 1,615,625,000 kg and a distance of 1000m. The number it came up with was 0.0146855m/s.
Kenrailae
Scrapyard Artificer's
#10 - 2015-07-18 18:25:10 UTC
Wow. So assuming that is even in the same ballpark as right, the nyx would need to significantly increase its mass. Magnetic force would probably give better pull than that What?

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal
Austris Strude
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-07-18 18:34:45 UTC
Well lets say instead of a gravity pull we change the idea of the unit to an electromagnet which kicks on a magnetic pull which uses a percentage of the ships capacitor in order to maintain it's pull. This could be calculated quite a few different ways and at first glance i'm not sure how I'd even start to do that because electromagnets can all have different force depending on design.
Iain Cariaba
#12 - 2015-07-18 20:23:54 UTC
Kenrailae wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
So I get 10 Rohks with full racks of smartbombs, have one Rohk change out a smartbomb for this module, then let the chaos ensue. Yeah, this is an interesting idea, but way to open to abuse.

Even looking beyond how we will abuse it, there's this handy little formula that you should see, of which there's an actual calculator here. Using this calculator, the velocity to escape from this module using the mass of a full armor plate, MWD, Higgs rigged Rokh when orbiting at 1000m is 0.00672420m/s, and that speed goes down the farther away you get.. I had to add 9 zeros to the end of the Rokh's mass to get an escape velocity over 200m/s.

So for discussion sake, how does that change if you put the module on a nyx? Mobile posting so can't really play with the calculator myself? Super cap restrictions answer the jita concerns.

In order to bring a nix up to mass high enough that a BS without a prop mod couldn't burn away took adding 8 zeros, bringing it up to 161,562,500,000,000,000 kg.
Iain Cariaba
#13 - 2015-07-18 20:33:49 UTC
Austris Strude wrote:
Well lets say instead of a gravity pull we change the idea of the unit to an electromagnet which kicks on a magnetic pull which uses a percentage of the ships capacitor in order to maintain it's pull. This could be calculated quite a few different ways and at first glance i'm not sure how I'd even start to do that because electromagnets can all have different force depending on design.

You could start by reading this and getting a better understanding of magnetic fields.
Enya Sparhawk
Black Tea and Talons
#14 - 2015-07-18 20:53:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Enya Sparhawk
Austris Strude wrote:
Hello all,

I have been thinking of a new high slot mod and bouncing ideas off a few people in game. I was interested in seeing what the community had to say about it.

The Idea comes from the fact that everything of mass, no matter how large, contains it's own gravitational pull. There for in space objects will pull other objects to them that are within their pulls distance. Planets and other large celestial masses are most known for this because we physically see the effect of a large scale gravity pull here on earth and have associated gravitational pull with larger masses even though everything still has one.

The module I've been thinking up would use a ships capacitor for a set amount of time (example: 10 seconds) to greatly increase the ships gravitational pull (or generate an artificial magnetic field, whichever makes more since in game), therefor pulling in anything and everything (intractable) within the ships gravity range toward the ship (to include wrecks, enemy ships, friendly ships, Concord, etc.) Of course ships with a larger mass would have a much stronger pull and longer range on the module than ships of smaller mass.

In order to escape the pull, a ship would need to build up enough speed/thrust to overcome it's own mass vs the ship pulling it in's gravitational pull which would be based on the generating ships mass. Frigates and other smaller ships would be able to avoid being trapped in the field of larger ships by orbiting near the edge of the modules range or keeping a very high velocity and slingshot themselves through the field and around the ship.

I'd like to read what you all think about this and would like to see more player module ideas. I love reading through them.

Wouldn't such a concept only make you more susceptible to ammo and missles (maybe even increase their range/velocity)?

(I'm not really against it but to implement something like this you need to change the dynamics of the Universe to compensate; I'm totally for such a move btw)

Environmental effects to combat.

Fíorghrá: Grá na fírinne

Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.

Bíonn súil le muir ach ní bhíonn súil le tír.

Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir.

When the lost ships of Greece finally return home...
Austris Strude
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-07-18 21:00:20 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Austris Strude wrote:
Well lets say instead of a gravity pull we change the idea of the unit to an electromagnet which kicks on a magnetic pull which uses a percentage of the ships capacitor in order to maintain it's pull. This could be calculated quite a few different ways and at first glance i'm not sure how I'd even start to do that because electromagnets can all have different force depending on design.

You could start by reading this and getting a better understanding of magnetic fields.


I understand the properties of magnetic fields although I did read through the article. This is more of what I was thinking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnet If it where possible to rout a large amount of capacitor energy to sustain an electromagnetic field using cables routed through the ships hull or an external unit instead of the gravity well idea. Strength of the field could be increased or decreased based on how tightly the fittings coils are wrapped either around the external unit or the hull of the ship, (whichever were going to go with) or if we want to go with one ratio of coil/distance the strength of the field could be varied by the amount of capacitor the unit would need to maintain the field. I'd like to talk numbers but I can't think of practical numbers to use for an in game ship with the calculation I found http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Magnets/Solenoid-Force-Calculator.phtml

I do apreciate you entertaining this idea with me even though it's never going to happen.
Austris Strude
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-07-18 21:05:26 UTC
Enya Sparhawk wrote:
Austris Strude wrote:
Hello all,

I have been thinking of a new high slot mod and bouncing ideas off a few people in game. I was interested in seeing what the community had to say about it.

The Idea comes from the fact that everything of mass, no matter how large, contains it's own gravitational pull. There for in space objects will pull other objects to them that are within their pulls distance. Planets and other large celestial masses are most known for this because we physically see the effect of a large scale gravity pull here on earth and have associated gravitational pull with larger masses even though everything still has one.

The module I've been thinking up would use a ships capacitor for a set amount of time (example: 10 seconds) to greatly increase the ships gravitational pull (or generate an artificial magnetic field, whichever makes more since in game), therefor pulling in anything and everything (intractable) within the ships gravity range toward the ship (to include wrecks, enemy ships, friendly ships, Concord, etc.) Of course ships with a larger mass would have a much stronger pull and longer range on the module than ships of smaller mass.

In order to escape the pull, a ship would need to build up enough speed/thrust to overcome it's own mass vs the ship pulling it in's gravitational pull which would be based on the generating ships mass. Frigates and other smaller ships would be able to avoid being trapped in the field of larger ships by orbiting near the edge of the modules range or keeping a very high velocity and slingshot themselves through the field and around the ship.

I'd like to read what you all think about this and would like to see more player module ideas. I love reading through them.

Wouldn't such a concept only make you more susceptible to ammo and missles (maybe even increase their range/velocity)?

(I'm not really against it but to implement something like this you need to change the dynamics of the Universe to compensate; I'm totally for such a move btw)

Environmental effects to combat.


Yes it would make you more than likely take more damage from increased incoming velocities. Although I don't think it would effect energy weapons like lasers. That would just be a draw back of using the unit I suppose. Everything has its positives and negatives.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#17 - 2015-07-19 00:06:42 UTC
Alric Rosenthal wrote:
Gravity is a weakly interacting force in our universe.


Out of curiousity, how can gravity create ripples in space and time and electromagnetisc cannot?

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This is the law of ship progression!

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Alric Rosenthal
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#18 - 2015-07-20 18:22:43 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Alric Rosenthal wrote:
Gravity is a weakly interacting force in our universe.


Out of curiousity, how can gravity create ripples in space and time and electromagnetisc cannot?


Anything with energy-momentum affects curvature; the electromagnetic field is no exception.

“War is cruelty. There's no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.” - William Tecumseh Sherman