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Barrier to entry is time and expense of T2 stuff, not skill points
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Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#201 - 2015-07-18 16:54:04 UTC
Aerasia wrote:
That still leaves PCU basically flat over 3.5 years. I'm not going to use that graph to say that EvE is dying, but it's certainly not growing.


So with an economy that's been in shambles for years and people dropping their alts left and right (again, for various reasons) the PCU is flat. I'd say that that's a pretty awesome achievement and shows us, while the PCU is flat, a stable grow in players.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#202 - 2015-07-18 17:12:18 UTC
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Aerasia wrote:
That still leaves PCU basically flat over 3.5 years. I'm not going to use that graph to say that EvE is dying, but it's certainly not growing.


So with an economy that's been in shambles for years and people dropping their alts left and right (again, for various reasons) the PCU is flat. I'd say that that's a pretty awesome achievement and shows us, while the PCU is flat, a stable grow in players.

Wait! You mean when I take something away, but it's still the same amount, then it actually grew?


INSANE! Shocked

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#203 - 2015-07-18 17:42:12 UTC
Tiberius Heth wrote:
So with an economy that's been in shambles for years and people dropping their alts left and right (again, for various reasons) the PCU is flat.
Even if you try and make the case that the slide in early 2014 was the crackdown on multiboxing, that ignores the fact that the slide came right after a spike in PCU before which the game had been at 2012 levels for six months.

But hey, maybe that spike was a lot of players who joined up for Tiamat and just never left. P

I don't want to try and diagnose the health of EvE entirely from that one chart. Without things like sub retention numbers, total hours logged, and an idea of alt use it's hard to say exactly what's happening. What I can tell you is that if EvE grows any slower that chart will go negative, which isn't a trend you want.
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#204 - 2015-07-18 17:42:23 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Aerasia wrote:
That still leaves PCU basically flat over 3.5 years. I'm not going to use that graph to say that EvE is dying, but it's certainly not growing.


So with an economy that's been in shambles for years and people dropping their alts left and right (again, for various reasons) the PCU is flat. I'd say that that's a pretty awesome achievement and shows us, while the PCU is flat, a stable grow in players.

Wait! You mean when I take something away, but it's still the same amount, then it actually grew?


INSANE! Shocked


Let me explain really slowly:

1) lots of people dropped alts (for good and bad reasons)
2) alts are NOT new players, they're alts of older players
3) the PCU stayed the same so that means that somehow, somewhere, the drop in alts was made up for by something else
4) That "something else" thus means that more NEW players started playing
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#205 - 2015-07-18 17:45:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiberius Heth
Aerasia wrote:
Tiberius Heth wrote:
So with an economy that's been in shambles for years and people dropping their alts left and right (again, for various reasons) the PCU is flat.
Even if you try and make the case that the slide in early 2014 was the crackdown on multiboxing, that ignores the fact that the slide came right after a spike in PCU before which the game had been at 2012 levels for six months.

But hey, maybe that spike was a lot of players who joined up for Tiamat and just never left. P

I don't want to try and diagnose the health of EvE entirely from that one chart. Without things like sub retention numbers, total hours logged, and an idea of alt use it's hard to say exactly what's happening. What I can tell you is that if EvE grows any slower that chart will go negative, which isn't a trend you want.


It isn't, it's fine. And it certainly won't be changed by giving new players more SP, per usual "this would be great for newbies and the game" should be read as "I want this for myself" and/or "I don't really understand how EVE works".
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#206 - 2015-07-18 18:05:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
Giving people quicker gratification will kill a game, don't do it.



Effort should be a major role in how you do. EVE is supposed to be a game related to risk and effort, the more of each you put in the more reward you get out of it. If you just start GIVING away **** then there is no actual reward and the game dies. Is there a reason EVE has been around for more than 10 years? I had more fun during my newbie days with a bunch of other newbies than I have now.


Aerasia wrote:
What I can tell you is that if EvE grows any slower that chart will go negative, which isn't a trend you want.



Alts leaving is not a huge issue if new players are joining and CCP is still above the funding they need to run properly. It's when CCP starts grabbing at things, trying to pull the whole instant gratification to make revenue that we should be worried. I've seen enough pay to win games come and go. If EVE ever dies I would imagine it would be pulling "pay to win" during the end, these people still have jobs to worry about.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2015-07-18 19:30:11 UTC
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Aerasia wrote:
That still leaves PCU basically flat over 3.5 years. I'm not going to use that graph to say that EvE is dying, but it's certainly not growing.


So with an economy that's been in shambles for years and people dropping their alts left and right (again, for various reasons) the PCU is flat. I'd say that that's a pretty awesome achievement and shows us, while the PCU is flat, a stable grow in players.

Wait! You mean when I take something away, but it's still the same amount, then it actually grew?


INSANE! Shocked


Let me explain really slowly:

1) lots of people dropped alts (for good and bad reasons)
2) alts are NOT new players, they're alts of older players
3) the PCU stayed the same so that means that somehow, somewhere, the drop in alts was made up for by something else
4) That "something else" thus means that more NEW players started playing

Mind blowingly complex! Shocked

I can't wait to see all the counter-evidence and reasonable arguments against this! LolLolLol

Yes, this and the last post were dripping sarcasm. Cool

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2015-07-18 19:31:10 UTC
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Aerasia wrote:
Tiberius Heth wrote:
So with an economy that's been in shambles for years and people dropping their alts left and right (again, for various reasons) the PCU is flat.
Even if you try and make the case that the slide in early 2014 was the crackdown on multiboxing, that ignores the fact that the slide came right after a spike in PCU before which the game had been at 2012 levels for six months.

But hey, maybe that spike was a lot of players who joined up for Tiamat and just never left. P

I don't want to try and diagnose the health of EvE entirely from that one chart. Without things like sub retention numbers, total hours logged, and an idea of alt use it's hard to say exactly what's happening. What I can tell you is that if EvE grows any slower that chart will go negative, which isn't a trend you want.


It isn't, it's fine. And it certainly won't be changed by giving new players more SP, per usual "this would be great for newbies and the game" should be read as "I want this for myself" and/or "I don't really understand how EVE works".

Wait a second, aren't you the guy Diana Kim glorifies?

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#209 - 2015-07-19 03:47:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
T2 isnt expensive is probably the fundimental problem with your theory.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#210 - 2015-07-19 07:01:16 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Wait a second, aren't you the guy Diana Kim glorifies?


No idea who that is and your posts aren't making a lot of sense.
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#211 - 2015-07-19 07:09:16 UTC
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Wait a second, aren't you the guy Diana Kim glorifies?


No idea who that is and your posts aren't making a lot of sense.


It's Tibus Heth she's thinking of. Surely you know who he is?
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#212 - 2015-07-19 07:16:38 UTC
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Wait a second, aren't you the guy Diana Kim glorifies?


No idea who that is and your posts aren't making a lot of sense.


It's Tibus Heth she's thinking of. Surely you know who he is?


Obviously yes, but no idea who that mentioned player is.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#213 - 2015-07-19 15:37:17 UTC
Ah so this guy is an imposter of a famous virtual npc character!

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2015-07-19 15:38:17 UTC
Avaelica Kuershin wrote:
Tiberius Heth wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Wait a second, aren't you the guy Diana Kim glorifies?


No idea who that is and your posts aren't making a lot of sense.


It's Tibus Heth she's thinking of. Surely you know who he is?

This makes me feel like everyone knows Diana Kim. Lol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#215 - 2015-07-24 23:08:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Just for the record, back in the early days people were just as good at making excuses for not engaging in PVP combat as they are today.

The 5 skill level cap still keeps experience points from being a restriction, simply specialize in one thing at a time.

Manufacturing (among other things) ensures that limited play time need not limit the amount of ISK you can earn to fund ships for PVP combat.

The only limitation there is to engaging in PVP is the same one that has been there since day one.

A lack of self confidence.

I think that CCP's proposal is more aimed at retention than getting newbies engaging in PvP, that's another issue altogether; one which isn't helped by either of the NPEs and the misconceptions that accompany people from other games.

Hello Jonah,

I wasn't restricting that observation to new players, it applies equally well to players of all experience levels that cite "the cost of PVP" as the main reason they don't engage in combat.

With that in mind it's pretty obvious that giving new players (or old for that matter) even more free anything won't accomplish a thing, but that is simply applying a broad principle to a very small (and ill conceived) proposal.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#216 - 2015-07-24 23:58:31 UTC
Haven't read the entire threadnaught but wondering how many threads about barriers to new players we need?

If players don't enjoy the grind, this may not be the game for them. Not every game is for every player.

Now stop it!

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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