These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

I'm tired of that Mmorpg Communism !
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#81 - 2011-12-31 21:27:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
iudex wrote:
The sad part is that i actually had read your posts
No, the sad part is that you haven't understood what you've supposedly read.

Quote:
The way i proposed the addition of new progression skills in several posts above (each new skill tier takes exponentially more time per given sp advantage than the previous one) isn't more complicated than an exponential function. You stated that the maths behind my proposal will create massive headaches
No. Go back and read it again — this time in the context in which it was written. The fact that you haven't done so proves your pathetic weakness at reading and general intelligence and at using proper argumentation without falling back on personal attacks. Until you improve, expect me to respond in kind on that last part. What you've proposed already exists in the game, including the function in question. Would you have had any idea what you're talking about, you would have known this already.

Oh, and your problem remains the same: you still think EVE works like those other games, where progression and accumulation of XP is the same (and that accumulation of SP is the EVE version of that process). You are trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and you're only seeing it as a problem because you don't understand even the most fundamental of EVE mechanics.
Quote:
stop posting here with your well known alts
Just one problem: I have no well-known alts. Your assumption that I am the only one disagreeing with your easily (and inherently) disproven nonsense only further proves that you have no clue about the topic at hand.

Trying to dismiss the valid input you get from multiple people this way makes you more pathetic than you even appear (and that's a considerable feat that one might be tempted to applaud, weren't it so pathetic).
iudex
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#82 - 2011-12-31 22:00:21 UTC
Tippia wrote:
What you've proposed already exists in the game, including the function in question.
Did you read what i proposed ? If this already existed in game, i'd not have to train skills that don't contribute anything to the ships i use and not make this thread. So who is not reading the posts of others before ranting ? And what's your point coming here and troll my thread, if you think sp-skills don't matter much in Eve ? What's wrong allowing people to specialize even further, as explained above, if thats so insignificant, as you proclaim ? [/quote]


Quote:
I have no well-known alts.
Protip: it might help not to use them in too many threads to defend yourself, when the going gets rough. Based on the sheer amount of your posts on Eve forums i understand that you have a kind of compulsive obsession to push the reply button. But at least try to understand what people are talking about and what they intend with their proposals, before starting your attacks. However, i don't like to continue this in the new year, so farewell, maybe if you one day get as much sp as i do and start wasting skilltime on useless stuff, you'll understand the wish for more specialisation and constant character progression (even if that progression is as tiny as mentioned in my posts above), my very young padawanBig smile
Happy new year.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#83 - 2011-12-31 22:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
iudex wrote:
Did you read what i proposed ? If this already existed in game, i'd not have to train skills that don't contribute anything to the ships i use
Yes. It already exists. And guess what? You don't have to.
Quote:
What's wrong allowing people to specialize even further, as explained above
Already explained above. Have you tried reading?
Quote:
N00btip: it might help not to use them in too many threads to defend yourself
Protip: I have no well-known alts, and dismissing people's disagreement with your ideas as “pfft, alts” doesn't help you — if anything, it just shows you can't deal with people disagreeing with your fantasies. The fact remains: a group of people aren't agreeing with your assessment, and that group will probably only grow larger if you keep failing at providing anything even remotely resembling a coherent argument and insist on making up for this shortfall with personal abuse.
Quote:
But at least try to understand what people are talking about
Fun fact: I am. You have shown quite clearly that you don't by not being able to distinguish very simple contexts, by ignoring both the bigger and the smaller picture, and by ignoring basic game mechanics. So how about you instead try to read what I and others have written and actually provide some kind of counter-argument; some kind of reasoning; some kind of indication that you have even the slightest bit of insight into the topic; or, hell, a shred of evidence towards you being able to read to begin with.
Quote:
maybe if you one day get as much sp as i do and start wasting skilltime on useless stuff
Nope. That will never happen for a large number of reasons. Mainly because I don't have your shallow and narrow-minded view of progression.

Your problem only exists because you've chosen to create it for yourself. The solution is simple: choose not to.
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#84 - 2011-12-31 23:00:06 UTC
I don't think communism means what you think it means

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Ascendic
Polaris Syndicate
#85 - 2011-12-31 23:08:48 UTC
Zenith Ginnungagap wrote:
Well it's true. PVP in EVE requires very little of real "skill". Just select target from OV and that's it.

Who will make the first MMORPG privateer clone?

Hollywood stylish physics and mega explosions, fast moving ships and lots and lots of lasers and proton torps Big smile


PVP much?
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#86 - 2011-12-31 23:09:37 UTC
Meet me in Tirana, ca. 1972

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log
Kel'Tarus
League of Gentlemen Extraordinaire
#87 - 2011-12-31 23:11:55 UTC
Why fix it if it ain't broken?

Why fix it if it ain't broken
kassie kelmar
Suzaku Enterprises
#88 - 2012-01-01 00:49:48 UTC
The trouble with uncapped skills are that they kill pvp centric games eventually.

Unless you are there right at the beginning, you can never catch up.
Right now in eve a new pilot can, with focused training, be as good as an older pilot in a given ship relatively quickly because the relevant skills are capped. If the skills were uncapped then they cannot catch up, ever.
This would have the effect of putting off new pilots from even trying the game and it will die a slow death as the population declines due to rl issues taking older pilots out of the game and not very many to no new pilots coming in. (theres always some masochists willing to try something new). The game then becomes unattractive due to low population.

There's at least one mmorpg out there that has uncapped skills, but the population isn't that great, if thats what floats your boat maybe Eve isn't for you and you should try that game.
Jask Avan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#89 - 2012-01-01 16:10:18 UTC
Why is this thread still alive? Ugh
Jace Errata
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#90 - 2012-01-01 16:15:59 UTC
It had been dead for 16 hours before you posted in it. Nice job bumping it, hero.

tweeten

One day they woke me up so I could live forever

It's such a shame the same will never happen to you
Jask Avan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2012-01-01 16:52:25 UTC
Yeah, I failed and didn't check what page I was on. Was hoping nobody would notice. Oops
Hsan Evets
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2012-01-01 17:59:35 UTC
iudex wrote:
Why does everyone has to "equal" in MMOs ? To run around in the same top gear at the same maximum level, with the same top stats etc. ? Why can't there be difference in a way that someone who invests more time/energy becomes stronger than others ?

And for EVE: why are there only 5 levels to each skill, so that everyone runs around with the same "capped" skill-sets after a while ? Why not give more specialisations skills for certain weapons, so that people can train 5 or 15 years, with diminishing returns and higher training time each tire/level of skill ? Oh yes, they scream : BALANCE. I can't hear that anymore. Everything and everyone must be in BALANCE and equal, superiority is SIN and NOT ALLOWED !!!

BALANCE is not realistic: In RL there is no balance as well, and how can there be balance in a space universe, with such a diversity of races and technologies. Balance actually kills the immersion - it makes everyone equal like in an unrealistic, artificial communist society. It kills all the fun which comes from the strive for constant improvement and finding a way to beat the other guy.
There is no taste of progression after a while, when one gets "capped" with skills for a certain ship. In other games that usually i the moment where people quit (top level, top gear = nothing to do anymore = move on to another game). What's so bad about giving a vet, who keeps training his missile skills for 5-10 years, 20 % more damage than to someone who invested only 5 months training time in missiles ? Will this really ruin the game and make everyone quit ? If someone gets spanked by a stronger guy in RL, he doesn't commit suicide as well, just because it's so unfair that there are stronger people than him on earth.


lol, the reds are coming.
Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#93 - 2012-01-02 11:08:53 UTC
posting in a Tippia solo's gang of badposters, and wins again thread.

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#94 - 2012-01-02 11:25:45 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Sirion Fujiwara wrote:
They could even introduce as new implant slot requiring an (expensive) implant that allowed you to train skill levels above 5, with increases in ability along th lines of +5%, +4%, +3% +2%, +1% for those five levels up to level 10. And I personally wuldn't mind if it took another 3 months per skill to get there.
Just so you know, a rank 1 skill would take about 63 years to train to lvl 10…

Screw lvl 10, I would be happy with electronics and engineering lvl 6. Bear

How to win EVE
Gorefacer
4S Corporation
The Initiative.
#95 - 2012-01-02 21:50:59 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
You know, in real life there are these people in turbans and Perahan Tunbans ( Just looked it up lolz ) who run around mountains with just AK-47's and RPG's and they fight an army with the best technology available on the market, including, tanks, planes, jets, stealth technology and drones.

The most interesting thing is, the high tech army with all the gadgets and best equipment is losing, I wonder why that could be?


Quote:

1. I already explained above, that this is about equality in game mechanics skills, not the abilities of players, but i guess your attention span is too short to read the whole thread before pushing the "post" button.


I don't think a lot of these players even understand the difference, so much for EVE player IQ being higher than other gamers.


They're losing? They have way more kill points than the opposition!
Varr Dorn
Blue Flame Ore Excavations
#96 - 2012-01-02 22:18:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Varr Dorn
OP: I've said this in other games as well, If you feel limited by your character's skills....its your own skill that's lacking.

i.e. you give two martial artists the same exact sword and training(in game skills). Who wins and who loses is determined by their own level of ability, experiences, and luck (meta-game savvy/skills)

/edit And yes you've already said this is about in game character skills...but to ask a game to be changed just because you don't want to learn a few new tricks is pure laziness. That's like a casual player (like me) demanding the ability to fly a supercap or head a major organization....but only wanting to play an hour a day. That, too, is balance. If you have a life outside the game, you have to accept the limits that life places on your virtual time instead of wasting time feeling entitled to more in-game abilities just because you've been here longer.


And I skipped a lot of posts, so forgive me if someone has said this, but you claim there is no balance in real life. Actually there IS balance in real life, it just usually takes much longer to balance out then a single lifetime (on large scales). Even those martial artists i mentioned above are limited by their human bodies (even if they, like capsuleers, have taken it further than most people).

Balance? Train in martial arts for twenty years and you could still get killed by a punk that learned how to shoot a gun twenty minutes ago. (balancing power vs power)
Balance? The moose is large and destructive...but the wolves gank it nonetheless (balancing power vs numbers)
Blue Rook
Ghost Cabal
#97 - 2012-01-02 22:24:32 UTC
A Low-sec pirate corp took my glasses :( but I'll pile in with the non-glasses count anyway.

O.. and, "Some animals are more equal than others."
Jita Alt666
#98 - 2012-01-02 22:33:36 UTC
Posting in an awww the OP is still sore about the removal of ghost training thread.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#99 - 2012-01-02 22:34:38 UTC
Ascendic wrote:
Zenith Ginnungagap wrote:
Well it's true. PVP in EVE requires very little of real "skill". Just select target from OV and that's it.

Who will make the first MMORPG privateer clone?

Hollywood stylish physics and mega explosions, fast moving ships and lots and lots of lasers and proton torps Big smile


PVP much?


It's true. You need to know how to log in to Vent, be told what to fit, what to fly, when to warp, who to shoot at.

The error in forum lore is that people who don't list off the dozen things like optimals, cap management, when to MWD and when to adjust transversals don;t know how to PvP and they don't "get EVE". But they do, they just don't feel compelled to point it out because everyone knows that everyone knows.

Condensed version, EVE does not take huge amounts of brain work. It takes Vent, scouts and in the end, grade 11 math.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#100 - 2012-01-03 10:38:24 UTC
Enver Hoxha and Josip Tito have an excellent scheme to subvert western capitalism. Bring a briefcase filled with tuna sandwiches to the park, to hear more.

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log