EVE General Discussion

no it doesnt, leave them in null

I think what players (espacially older ones) often forget is how bad a T1 ship with T1 high-mid-lows and T1 drones in combination with bad skills actually is.

PvP wise, its easy to find some role in a fleet that a new player can do even with low skills. And since PvP isnt about ISK/hour its no burden to bring a new player who is only of little benefit to the group. The more the better.

But I think you are refering to PvE content to lure players into lowsec. Losing a BC is a major loss for a newb. But what is he going to do in a Cruiser that is barely able to bring 150 dps to the grid and cant tank anything.

PvE wise, there is not mutch a new player can do but stay in highsec for the first couple of month. Unless he finds someone who is willing to carry him.

Exploration. Both Data/Relic and small gang exploration of combats. There are still 1/10's - 4/10's in low sec also.
Belt ratting in a gank fit destroyer (Coercer was turning 10/hour, pays for itself the first large rat you kill)
There are low level mission agents in low sec, some of which are very lucrative LP (Try Thukker for example?)

The issue is not risk/isk.

The issue is time investment. Very few new players are going to dive deep into a game and invest massive amounts of time till they have learnt and experienced it for a while. Yet that time investment is what low sec (& partly null also) require. Since you can't just log in and instantly undock, you might have to wait an hour for people to clear the area.

Given Braves AVERAGE character age is roughly two years.... They aren't really a 'new/young' alliance in any true sense of the word. They are just young compared to some of the ancient null groups who have an average character age of about 10 years.
See Fanfest presentation on characters/alliances/retention/etc for that graph.

There are a couple of things I know for certain that keep players away from Low Sec.

1. Fear of the unknown. Players that have never been to Low Sec believe it to be a death trap. That fear is compounded by propaganda spewed by High Sec dwellers.

2. The risk of losing isk. Players that play the game to make isk do not want to risk losing that isk. Their only thoughts are how to make more isk. So, there is no reason to go to Low Sec and risk the isk.

I know this, because I use to be this way. There was no way in New Eden you could get me to go to Low Sec. Eventually, I got bored of playing for isk and I decided to play the game for fun. I was recruited by some good folks and took my first travels into Low Sec.

Everything I thought about Low Sec was shattered in one day. It was by far not the death trap I had been conditioned to believe. Have I lost a lot of isk? Yes, but it has mostly been by my choice. If you go there intending on fighting and having fun, you will lose isk. If you just intend to live there and not fight all the time, you will lose much less isk.

I now fear High Sec more. There are much more unknowns in High Sec than I realized.

Thank you that is exactly what I'm referring to, and I'm glad you took the time to actually read into this! The PvP aspect is just fine (the "risk")is right where it needs to be. The PvE aspect could use some fine tuning to be more appealing to new players. (The "reward") to keep the content busy, not just active. Eve is what you make of it, but that doesn't mean the experience couldn't be made better.

FW is alright in its present state but as someone mentioned it will get improvements which is a definite plus!
And I like the idea of additional WH leading to more dangerous parts of the universe.

I suggested more consistent yield for lower-end combat sites in lowsec so that those T1 **** fit noob hulls can make somewhat a profit outside of the usual high sec gameplay. Otherwise new players are going to have a very linear route for a long time and grow bored before they even learn more about the game.

New players need a skill-plan before they even start playing otherwise they will have sub-optimal skillpoints spread all over the place - to me, that is where the community can influence new players. We're not there to tell them how to play or what to do, otherwise we don't live in a sandbox, but we sure can tell them what they can do to make their experience efficient and worthwhile with skill training.

Low sec doesn't need anything rewards wise, it already has the second or 3rd most lucrative forms of income in eve (lvl 5 missions that can be blitzed in less than 2 minutes and faction warfare missions that pay ridiculously well even with the extreme market saturation they cause.) The only PVE in all of EVE that pays more per hour are capital escalations in wormhole space and maybe (depending on conditions) blitzing pirate faction burner missions (the angel cartel in curse has loads of lvl 4 mission agents)..

Hell, when you know what you are doing you can make ridiculous isk with cheap ships in low sec lvl 4s. I have an alt that flys a talos for an npc corp with good mining implants in it's LP store in low sec, it's crazy isk and damn near no one does it.

People should stop asking for new stuff when they don't even use the stuff that exists already.

This is a perfect example of what I'm explaining. Most of you are established and knowledgeable so you understand that lowsec is actually lucrative and fun, and that there is plenty of content for as long as you MAKE it happen. Escalations provide great pve content and great pvp opportunities...a new player probably won't even know what an escalation is until they're told what it is, so generally they're not making the best of their eve experience because they are only provided with basic and tedious options from the start, they have to rely on a chance that someone with experience and the willingness to teach them will pick them up.
DED sites for instance, you can run the lower end variants with t1 very easily if you know what you're doing- if more new players knew this, they'd travel there more and risk everything for them, AND still come back after dying if they do die.

This isn't about us. This all about the perspective of the new subscriber who will only be getting limited and biased guidance. It's about tweaking ways of advertising a method of gameplay that is high risk and decent yield. Developers, in my opinion, can help fuel that to make it APPEAR more viable, again, for the new solo pilot that just subscribed to the game - on the PvE aspect of the game. We, in lowsec, need that community base just as much as the PvP community base. Personally I don't PvE, when I did I felt it was abysmally boring - a job, but a necessary one. Lowsec PvE was a bit more exhilarating and challenging and you actually learn from it. Still boring though.

You can tell a new player that if he trains a few months for incursions, then he can make billions of isk in a few hours throughout the duration of the day - he'll jump that and get burnt out fast

But no one tells a new player that if he trains combat skills properly, he can run an escalation and get a billion+ isk in much less time, because it's "too dangerous" and not consistent enough to be as reliable.

We can put it on the community to help keep players in the game all we want, but last I checked, we don't work for CCP and we're not getting paid to keep new players in the game. That's not the communities' job, although we can help it happen.

There are games out there with absolutely **** communities that can still keep players subscribing because of content and gameplay.
EvE has a better community than most, but can't seem to accomplish the latter. To me that's as simple as giving content a more appealing (not easier, not less risky) appearance so that they, at the very least, can experience it before they plan out 6 months of skillpoints.

I do what I can when I find a new pilot who is willing to do what we do, but because of the ever present stigma of lowsec, those are few and far between.

Then I guess we should all stop recruiting and let CCP do that for us? How about caring more about the game? Because you do not. You want change to happen for your own good, but not for the game. If you really cared you wouldn't dismiss the most reasonable and efficient of all options: Doing it yourself!

Seriously, your excuse is shameful. You want change, you could change it, you do not want to put effort into it.

Evidence so far hints at you being nothing but a carebear.