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Intergalactic Summit

 
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The Tragedy of Sana Clarret

Author
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2015-07-17 02:36:01 UTC
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:
Amarr law does not allow for non-holders to own slaves.



You keep telling yourself that and I'll keep legally selling them to non-Holders in Amarr.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."

Goldfinch
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-07-17 03:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Goldfinch
We feel like we have to interject on the typical argumentum ad absurdum regarding what is Theological law and what it means to be a CONCORD signitory. If Amarr Empire is to be a "good" Cluster Citizen, it has to follow some secular rules out of necessity for its survival. This does not mean Theological law is cast out to the wind, or forgotten.

Theological law forbids anyone but Holders from having slaves. This is God's Law, and any Holder who violates it in an ideal system would be stripped of rank and privilege, partially or whole.

Amarr Theology has many other imperatives, such as the Reclaiming.

This does not mean that all of the sudden Amarr Empire is going to spread out and start violating DED rules of engagement and Yulai Convention laws for prisoners of war to satisfy a "Theologically sound" goal of Reclaiming the Cluster. In the same way, a Theological law against slave ownership by commoners does not presently mean that Amarr Empire will suddenly quash the free market because doing so would have grave implications for its CONCORD membership.



There is no hypocrisy here. Mixing secular requirements for CONCORD membership with Theology is a specious argument. Name us one culture which hasn't had to sacrifice some of its core ideals at the Yulai Convention.



We have great admiration for Lt. Kernher's zeal. We support her assertion that Amarr Theology has been compromised too far by Amarr's membership in CONCORD.

\J/

veiled and bound

my origin story (on eve-backstage)

Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2015-07-17 05:24:10 UTC
Since when do Angels give a damn about laws?

I thought their motto is: "Never do legally what can be done illegally"?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#44 - 2015-07-17 08:05:27 UTC
Thank you Ms Rkard, it is explained very elegantly.

Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
Because the Theology Council does not bother to pick out every single heretic capsuleer out there and stamp their forehead with the word 'heretic', so we make due. Why do you keep on making issues about Imperial institutions and the way they should be run about PIE and they way it is run?

That makes absolutely no sense to me.


So, you are telling me that only the TC can brand someone as such, but none of us except PIE Inc. ?
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#45 - 2015-07-17 08:22:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Leopold Caine
Samira Kernher wrote:
Give me the whip, not the chip. Inject me, don't implant me.


Loving this part.

I must admit I'm a bit of a traditionalist when compared to Sinjin and thus use more old fashioned methods. Not saying his are wrong, mind you. It's a merely a matter of taste.

Elmund Egivand wrote:
Since when do Angels give a damn about laws?

I thought their motto is: "Never do legally what can be done illegally"?


You seem to be taking our involvement in discussion regarding CONCORD legislative rather... pejoratively, if I may say so.

We have no respect for CONCORD laws, but if you think we're a disorganized rabble without a legislative of our own... well, keep on thinking that, actually; it humours me greatly.
If you think we have public sales booths in Dam Torsad where you can buy slaves legally... well, you'd only be wrong about the 'public' and 'legally' parts, technically.

Also, don't try to teach us about our mottos.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
#46 - 2015-07-17 08:35:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Odelya d'Hanguest
In Light's Name

Goldfinch wrote:

We feel like we have to interject on the typical argumentum ad absurdum regarding what is Theological law and what it means to be a CONCORD signitory. If Amarr Empire is to be a "good" Cluster Citizen, it has to follow some secular rules out of necessity for its survival. This does not mean Theological law is cast out to the wind, or forgotten. [...]

Ms Rkard

The notion that there is a “sacred law” (or theological law, as you call it) which is distinguishable from a “profane law” (or secular rules, as you call them) comes with complications. It might—for historical reasosn—be true for an entity such as the Gallente Federation, but not for Amarr (ideally speaking). But if we were to assume that there are such separable spheres of “sacred laws” and “secular rules,” ideally there would be a hierarchy—in the strictest sense of the word—which places divine law on top of all. A holder who promulgates that a special tax should be given to the orphans and widows, might not do so if it contradicts the “sacred laws.”

Actually, the separation of the two spheres was an invention of the Theology Council to attack His Majesty King Khanid, when they accused him of proclaiming the primacy of man’s law over God’s law. While superficially attacking His Majesty, their argumentation laid the groundwork for furthering the distortion of the Scriptures. And this is one reason why you will find many contradictions in the Empire—such as a CONCORD sanctioned reclaiming, slaves on markets although forbidden to be owned by non-holders, an abolitionist on the throne etc.—that you will not encounter in the Kingdom, where there is no Theology Council and no separation between the laws of man and God, just as it always has been and always will be right and just.

Odelya d’Hanguest, Begum etc. pp.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#47 - 2015-07-17 09:04:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
Woe betide the age where apes wear the robes of bishops and servitude is confused with pride... Amarr was founded to cultivate the spirit of man. Man such as you. In service of God and Amarr the only words that should come out of your mouth when talking to your betters are “Yes, Sir!” and “Yes, Ma’am!”


Those would be my words, if I were speaking to my betters.

Quote:
My ancestors fought alongside the first emperors of Amarr. Give some respect to the blood of the martyrs that died for your salvation. Show some gratitude that a d'Hanguest humbles herself and speaks to you.


My ancestors also once served God, as did all people. The line ceases being worthy of respect, however, when they abandon God and Amarr.

Lyn Farel wrote:
Ms Kernher,

CONCORD law does not make slave trading illegal as far as I am aware. It suffice to take a look at what the SCC allows to trade everywhere in New Eden. That business is usually made illegal by the empires themselves, and that includes the Amarr that for now also strictly forbids slave taking outside of Amarr borders, on foreign citizens.


CONCORD makes it illegal. It also makes the drug trade illegal, and that also occurs on the SCC. The SCC is an unregulated free market, it allows business in things that are otherwise illegal in the name of "free trade". The fact that the SCC allows the trade of controlled items doesn't mean that those items are not illegal, it just means that the SCC is an atrocious organization that needs to be curtailed.

Sinjin Mokk wrote:
Amarr law make it legal for non-Holders to own slaves within the Empire


You know nothing about Amarr law.

Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
... that you will not encounter in the Kingdom, where there is no Theology Council and no separation between the laws of man and God, just as it always has been and always will be right and just.


There is no separation in Amarr. Here it is only God's Law.

There is no separation in the Kingdom. There it is only man's law.
Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
#48 - 2015-07-17 10:07:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Odelya d'Hanguest
In Light's Name

Samira Kernher wrote:
My ancestors also once served God, as did all people. The line ceases being worthy of respect, however, when they abandon God and Amarr.

See, you equate the service the servant does to his commander (polishing the commander’s boots before battle) with the service the commander does himself (leading into battle).

You serve yourself, not God.

One should address you as a “honorary Gallente.” You fit into each and every stereotype: a stubborn individualist that has problems with authority, prone to self-entitlement, arrogance and an undeserved feeling of superiority, making fiery speeches about each and everything, yet not possessing a single thought that did not originate somewhere else...

Your opinions are as little expressions of faith, as colour is a representative of sound. Yet, we have to see, it is futile to explain a thought to someone to whom a hint is not enough.

Au revoir, Mademoiselle Kernher!

Odelya d’Hanguest, Begum etc. pp.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#49 - 2015-07-17 10:20:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:
You serve yourself, not God.


Kingdomers would know best, wouldn't they?

Quote:
One should address you as a “honorary Gallente.” You fit into each and every stereotype: a stubborn individualist that has problems with authority, prone to self-entitlement, arrogance and an undeserved feeling of superiority, making fiery speeches about each and everything, yet not possessing a single thought that did not originate somewhere else...


People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Ms. "Sensitive Girl".


This is the last I'll say to you here, Ms. d'Hanguest. You are derailing the purpose of this thread.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2015-07-17 11:42:04 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Ms. "Sensitive Girl".


This is the last I'll say to you here, Ms. d'Hanguest. You are derailing the purpose of this thread.


What is the purpose of this thread?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
#51 - 2015-07-17 13:04:03 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Ms. "Sensitive Girl"

In Light’s Name


Just because the truth hurts in your case, it does not in mine. Things of which I am not proud of happened to me in the past. I took responsibility for them. When will you take responsibility and stop hiding?

Odelya d’Hanguest, Begum etc.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#52 - 2015-07-17 13:06:04 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
What is the purpose of this thread?

Going by the OP, it's to illuminate the horrors of an unregulated slave market.
Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#53 - 2015-07-17 13:08:56 UTC
I would like to take a moment to assure readers that the views of the Stillwater corporation and its members do not represent the views of the wider Angel Cartel.

Carry on darlings!

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#54 - 2015-07-17 13:21:32 UTC
Kalaratiri wrote:
I would like to take a moment to assure readers that the views of the Stillwater corporation and its members do not represent the views of the wider Angel Cartel.

Carry on darlings!


I'd like to take a moment to remind readers that mercenaries collaborating with Nation sycophants should keep their mouth shut and know their place.

Now let's not derail and escalate this out of proportion, dear.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#55 - 2015-07-17 13:23:47 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
Kalaratiri wrote:
I would like to take a moment to assure readers that the views of the Stillwater corporation and its members do not represent the views of the wider Angel Cartel.

Carry on darlings!


I'd like to take a moment to remind readers that mercenaries collaborating with Nation sycophants should keep their mouth shut and know their place.

Now let's not derail and escalate this out of proportion, dear.


Nice sexism.
Foley Aberas Jones
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#56 - 2015-07-17 13:24:15 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Ms. "Sensitive Girl".


This is the last I'll say to you here, Ms. d'Hanguest. You are derailing the purpose of this thread.


What is the purpose of this thread?


Something about cake i think....
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2015-07-17 13:58:47 UTC
Foley Aberas Jones wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Ms. "Sensitive Girl".


This is the last I'll say to you here, Ms. d'Hanguest. You are derailing the purpose of this thread.


What is the purpose of this thread?


Something about cake i think....


What is cake?

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#58 - 2015-07-17 14:12:11 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Foley Aberas Jones wrote:
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Ms. "Sensitive Girl".


This is the last I'll say to you here, Ms. d'Hanguest. You are derailing the purpose of this thread.


What is the purpose of this thread?


Something about cake i think....


What is cake?


I believe ms. Tenebrae's patisserie enthusiast thread should keep you both entertained.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#59 - 2015-07-17 15:18:24 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
Kalaratiri wrote:
I would like to take a moment to assure readers that the views of the Stillwater corporation and its members do not represent the views of the wider Angel Cartel.

Carry on darlings!


I'd like to take a moment to remind readers that mercenaries collaborating with Nation sycophants should keep their mouth shut and know their place.


I'd like to remind readers that every time Vincent Pryce hears Leo here describe himself as an angel he pulls just the MOST humourous face, until we remind him that Leo is probably simply describing himself as a flamboyant homosexual.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Kalaratiri
Full Broadside
Deepwater Hooligans
#60 - 2015-07-17 15:49:38 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:
Kalaratiri wrote:
I would like to take a moment to assure readers that the views of the Stillwater corporation and its members do not represent the views of the wider Angel Cartel.

Carry on darlings!


I'd like to take a moment to remind readers that mercenaries collaborating with Nation sycophants should keep their mouth shut and know their place.

Now let's not derail and escalate this out of proportion, dear.


But my place is right here darling!

Giving you even greater opportunities to look like an idiot.

So kind of you to take advantage of the service I provide.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim