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Fresh Start and demonstration of futility- Temporary new server

Author
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#1 - 2015-07-17 05:32:14 UTC
I was discussing with a friend the perception among some newer players the idea that the skillpoints held by older players somehow represented an insurmountable barrier to newer pilots wishing to join the game. One confused soul went so far as to suggest that all ships in the game be converted to ISK and all skillpoints set to zero.

While I have no idea what that particular guy was packing his pipe with, it got me to consider a proof of concept idea.

Create a series of new systems (or just mirror all or part of current K-Space) on a new server. All new characters, no entrenched alliances... but with a plan (maybe in 5 years or so) to integrate the 2 servers via wormholes, perhaps eventually concluding with an event that opens regular travel to the area by regular means a year or 2 after that.

joecuster
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-07-17 05:35:49 UTC
I think you meant to post this is in the terrible idea thread 0/10
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#3 - 2015-07-17 05:39:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Voidstar
It's in it's proper place.

Granted it's not a long post, but it took more than one line.

Care to elaborate on why it's terrible? I can grant not needed as I don't personally subscribe to the idea that low skillpoints makes for poor performance beyond a certain threshold of basic ability to sit in ships with effective fits.

I would guess 5 years would be enough time to develop sufficient industry and characters to have gameplay at all levels up to and including large alliances and their beloved titan and supecap fleets.
joecuster
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-07-17 05:43:09 UTC
You know what makes eve different from other games? A single server.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#5 - 2015-07-17 06:22:35 UTC
Yes...

And at the core of the idea is that the servers would be integrated after a few years. That means put together into one server again.
Tina Twinkletwhat
Blitzkrieg Collection
#6 - 2015-07-17 06:34:28 UTC
joecuster wrote:
You know what makes eve different from other games? A "single" server.

ftfy
Confuscious say, Its not the server that is single, simply your perception of it.
Srsly, ask the Chinese.

Before splintering off and creating a whole other server, I think a much brighter idea would be to find a way (technical/political) to bring the two (existing) servers together. Simply bringing them together and allowing interaction would create a whole new dimension and with it a massive power shift/struggle
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#7 - 2015-07-17 06:51:53 UTC
Technical is probably not hard, but political would be.


The main point is to explore the idea that new players can't get a foothold in EVE because of Bittervets. The shake up of the status quo is just a handy byproduct.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#8 - 2015-07-17 07:20:17 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:



The main point is to explore the idea that new players can't get a foothold in EVE because of Bittervets.


This is a false assertion. Unless you can prove this is actually true, there is no point engaging with the rest of your argument.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#9 - 2015-07-17 07:35:40 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Technical is probably not hard, but political would be.


The main point is to explore the idea that new players can't get a foothold in EVE because of Bittervets. The shake up of the status quo is just a handy byproduct.


and the bitter vets can use their stores of knowledge and friendship to crush any one else if they so choose.

I'd bet there would be more "bitter vets" than new players brought in by the idea of a fresh server.

that said if they did something like that I'd probably be an "adios vet"

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#10 - 2015-07-17 07:36:53 UTC
I don't agree with it either, as explained in my OP. The point of the fresh start is to prove that nothing significance would change.

I am not making an argument of any kind. I have proposed an idea that would illustrate the inherent strength of the diminishing returns skill system we have now, and as a handy side effect would provide a place for a new regime. The inspiration was an assertion made by someone else, one I don't agree with.

However, a fresh start server could draw in new players by breaking that perception, and given time to mature into all areas of play and then integrated into the main server it could benefit the game as a whole by providing a shake up to the status quo.
Leto Aramaus
Frog Team Four
Of Essence
#11 - 2015-07-17 12:13:15 UTC
This is dumb, OP you're not making any sense.
Quote:

LOL guys so I was talking to this "friend" who's a newbro and he thinks all skillpoints and ISK should be reset to 0, how crazy is that right? Obviously that wouldn't have any effect! ...

....

...

Let's do exactly that to prove that it wouldn't help LOL amiright? guys?


Are you trolling?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#12 - 2015-07-17 12:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
And after 5 years? After 5 years, these new players still only have SP worth 5 years. Players from the other world still have SP worth 15 years. In this other world, they'd still get farmed by players with more experience as SP do not matter. And if this other world gets opened or integrated into the real New Eden, everything someone might have build up on that server will get roflstomped into the ground. Not to mention that this is kind of impossible in the first place: You cannot integrate 2 sov holders into 1 game.

Also, all these players complaining about the "gap" seem to forget that these "gaps" exist everywhere around them. Their job in their comfortable position in the company? Imagine how a trainee or apprentice feels when they see your status. Your kids in that fancy school or private college? Imagine the perspective of someone who does not have that kind of money or influence to get their children this kind of treatment. And before someone thinks about to give me the "this is a game" crap, EVE is firstly not just a game and secondly set up in a dark, unforgiving, harsh, brutal, punishing, exploitive, relentless universe of war, treachery, combat, fight for survival. All the older players have earned their place in this environment over time and by how or with whom they play. If the new players cannot stomach this because Angry Bird is such a better place, they should not think about trying EVE in the first place.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-07-17 13:01:00 UTC
I managed to fit your idea into one line quite a whole ago:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5606926#post5606926

Lasts a day, then business as usual. You've just expanded it to all skills, is all.

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.

Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#14 - 2015-07-17 13:20:20 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Technical is probably not hard, but political would be.


The main point is to explore the idea that new players can't get a foothold in EVE because of Bittervets. The shake up of the status quo is just a handy byproduct.

i managed, the new lords ceo managed, newbies manage every day to get by, get stuck in and have fun.

can we please stop with this crap already, you have been here long enough to know differently
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-07-17 13:39:59 UTC
Highlights of this should be read aloud by aura when getting/setting up skills for the first time, it would help in understanding the inclusive nature of sp.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=406047

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#16 - 2015-07-17 16:40:06 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
And after 5 years? After 5 years, these new players still only have SP worth 5 years. Players from the other world still have SP worth 15 years. In this other world, they'd still get farmed by players with more experience as SP do not matter. And if this other world gets opened or integrated into the real New Eden, everything someone might have build up on that server will get roflstomped into the ground. Not to mention that this is kind of impossible in the first place: You cannot integrate 2 sov holders into 1 game.

Also, all these players complaining about the "gap" seem to forget that these "gaps" exist everywhere around them. Their job in their comfortable position in the company? Imagine how a trainee or apprentice feels when they see your status. Your kids in that fancy school or private college? Imagine the perspective of someone who does not have that kind of money or influence to get their children this kind of treatment. And before someone thinks about to give me the "this is a game" crap, EVE is firstly not just a game and secondly set up in a dark, unforgiving, harsh, brutal, punishing, exploitive, relentless universe of war, treachery, combat, fight for survival. All the older players have earned their place in this environment over time and by how or with whom they play. If the new players cannot stomach this because Angry Bird is such a better place, they should not think about trying EVE in the first place.


Diminishing returns would prevent the effect you describe. I suggested the initial integration be done via wormholes so that you could not simply mobilize your entire supercap armada and roll the newer systems, you would have to set up production and build it.

It would simply provide a new place for the game to grow and develop a new meta, and then cause further conflict and chaos when the two were put in reach of each other.

These would be new systems, not to be integrated directly in such a way as to cause dual ownership or anything.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#17 - 2015-07-17 17:57:30 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
And after 5 years? After 5 years, these new players still only have SP worth 5 years. Players from the other world still have SP worth 15 years..


Diminishing returns would prevent this


So why even have another server? As if that is true (it is SP really doesn't matter beyond using the ship) then theres no point in having a whole new server.


Also how many people would just abandon alts on first server for ones on new server, older players will know what exactly to train to accomplish there goal and the meta wouldn't change it would just be copied over.

Enya Sparhawk
Black Tea and Talons
#18 - 2015-07-17 20:31:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Enya Sparhawk
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Technical is probably not hard, but political would be.

LOL. Yeah, the technical is entirely the problem...

Essentially, You will always have two heads competing for dominance over the one system sending crashes down everything it is connected to or even closely interacts with (problems which are just compounded for any and every element within the second system)...
Anytime, anywhere... there is literally no predictability to it... (literally, like a 'virtual' ripple; you couldn't ever track it since it would literally just disappear and then reappear somewhere else down the line. An actually physical destructive/disruptive anomaly created in the virtual world)

A Train Wreck in all sense of the word. Two trains both on the same set of rails, speeding ever closer to each other. You can see it coming, you just can't change the track, jump off or even stop either train.

If you are trying to mirror something, you need to remove the original entirely before you can replace it with the copy...

Otherwise, you are just asking for your ass to get kicked...

Fíorghrá: Grá na fírinne

Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.

Bíonn súil le muir ach ní bhíonn súil le tír.

Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir.

When the lost ships of Greece finally return home...

Enya Sparhawk
Black Tea and Talons
#19 - 2015-07-17 20:39:34 UTC
There is no reset button in life...

Fíorghrá: Grá na fírinne

Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.

Bíonn súil le muir ach ní bhíonn súil le tír.

Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir.

When the lost ships of Greece finally return home...

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#20 - 2015-07-17 21:46:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
Mike Voidstar wrote:
I was discussing with a friend the perception among some newer players the idea that the skillpoints held by older players somehow represented an insurmountable barrier to newer pilots wishing to join the game. One confused soul went so far as to suggest that all ships in the game be converted to ISK and all skillpoints set to zero.

While I have no idea what that particular guy was packing his pipe with, it got me to consider a proof of concept idea.

Create a series of new systems (or just mirror all or part of current K-Space) on a new server. All new characters, no entrenched alliances... but with a plan (maybe in 5 years or so) to integrate the 2 servers via wormholes, perhaps eventually concluding with an event that opens regular travel to the area by regular means a year or 2 after that.


The current system where most of the blue doughnut never fights because it hurts their ISK would just be repeated and as far as the SP situation from day one new players would be joining the server and those that started eariler would be ahead SP wise and the gap would widen over time to be exactly as is.

zero for this idea

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

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