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Proclamation 7 - The Inquisition of YC117

Author
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#101 - 2015-07-15 18:46:22 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
"Just do anything we tell you and you'll be fine!"


War is coming. The lives of our crews are in hands I trust as if they were my own - because they are. How safe are your gunners, your engineers, your sensor techs? You can call it bullying if you like, I call it a warning, and a chance to save lives. Don't needlessly throw away thousands of lives as Darkness did.

You equate
taking precautions for the lives under your command
with
removing all danger from their positions.

Moral culpability lies with the aggressor. Whatever word you want to use is immaterial.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#102 - 2015-07-15 18:49:48 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Arrendis wrote:

And who is it, I wonder, I am supposed to have enslaved?

PBLRD rins a bell? Not just the caching of money in your pockets, a real bell. Roll People flocked ... well, I guess trickling describes your slavery endeavor better, to your renting scheme. Entities like yours made them rather submit to being a renter rather than owning space. Entities like yours subverted, oppressed, forced and coerced people into being a renter rather than a sov holder. It is certainly not only your misdoing, but your entity preaches change while having been part of the very same club of slave lords. And before you try to turn this on me as N3 and THOR has held renters as well: I do not preach the change you preach with the arguments you use. I do not care about people submitting themselves abjectly to entities like yours rather than seeking a coexistence. I do not need a change based on hypocrisy where people do still the same things, just under another name.


Rental arrangements are voluntary. Do you claim then that your corporation is enslaved whenever you rent office space? Renters are always free to leave, or to attempt to carve out their own niche of sovereign space. And our rental agreements were honored - when you and yours threatened Delve last year, we defended our renters. When we deployed to Omist, to Immensea, to Querious.... again and again, your renters were left to fend for themselves.

Perhaps you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the responsibilities and obligations placed upon the landlords by a rental agreement. Perhaps you feel that you were within your rights to simply benefit from the fruits of their labor, without any regard for upholding your end of the bargain. Perhaps you felt that simply being stronger than the renters meant you could treat them as property, as chattel. It would certainly explain the communications from your rental managers to their renters, demanding that they defend the space they rented, and berating them for not being able to individually resist a military organization that your entire coalition was never able to successfully oppose.

Perhaps that's why so many in PBLRD joined FCON, LAWN, and Bastion eagerly, while your renters have had no further use for your abuse.

Rivr Luzade wrote:
I never mentioned your name in particular but if you see this as an attack against your person, be my guest.


Perhaps not, but as your statement was made to me, it would naturally be taken as directed to me. Now you claim it wasn't. I think, sir, that you lack the conviction to make statements and stand by them.

Quote:
We are nomads, we do not necessarily need to stay in one place. To say it with the words of a famous person long forgotten in distant past:
The sedentary life has left us edgy, unfulfilled. We have not forgotten: The open road still softly calls, like a nearly forgotten song of childhood.


Pandemic Legion are nomads. They claim no space, hold no stations. You hold 40 systems and 19 stations, and you have made a long-standing habit of claiming space - even when repeatedly driven from one region to another. A refugee is not a nomad, especially when he keeps trying to establish a settlement.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#103 - 2015-07-15 18:50:42 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Moral culpability lies with the aggressor. Whatever word you want to use is immaterial.


I agree. And is not the slaver the aggressor against the rights of all mankind?
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#104 - 2015-07-15 19:37:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Arrendis wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
I never mentioned your name in particular but if you see this as an attack against your person, be my guest.


Perhaps not, but as your statement was made to me, it would naturally be taken as directed to me. Now you claim it wasn't. I think, sir, that you lack the conviction to make statements and stand by them.

Sinjin Mokk made the claim I responded to. I only mentioned CFC, not you. But then again, the joys of English grammar are truly fantastic. You/Your/Yours can mean a lot, right? Blink

There is more to being a nomad than just requiring no place to stay for a while. This can very well involve roaming around from NPC controlled Null sec space to other NPC controlled Null sec space or having bases here and there or semi-fxed points of settlement you can use and remove at will.

Where else should your renters have gone to? What other destinations are there? Small corps or alliances cannot survive as long as entities like yours exist. They have but 2 choices: Submit or Leave.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#105 - 2015-07-15 20:12:13 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Moral culpability lies with the aggressor. Whatever word you want to use is immaterial.


I agree. And is not the slaver the aggressor against the rights of all mankind?


No.

Moral responsibility is not transitive a group. It rests upon the individual.
Anyanka Funk
Doomheim
#106 - 2015-07-15 21:03:28 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Moral culpability lies with the aggressor. Whatever word you want to use is immaterial.


I agree. And is not the slaver the aggressor against the rights of all mankind?


No.

Moral responsibility is not transitive a group. It rests upon the individual.

Discussing ethics with capsuleers . . . Can you please talk to my slaver hound when you're done here?
Arrendis
TK Corp
#107 - 2015-07-15 21:05:32 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Moral responsibility is not transitive a group. It rests upon the individual.


While even one person remains enslaved, none of us are free.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#108 - 2015-07-15 22:43:32 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Moral responsibility is not transitive a group. It rests upon the individual.


While even one person remains enslaved, none of us are free.

Define freedom.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#109 - 2015-07-15 23:03:52 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Moral responsibility is not transitive a group. It rests upon the individual.


While even one person remains enslaved, none of us are free.

Define freedom.


As soon as you define morality.

Seriously, now - let's not be obtuse.

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#110 - 2015-07-15 23:25:12 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
Moral responsibility is not transitive a group. It rests upon the individual.


While even one person remains enslaved, none of us are free.

Define freedom.


As soon as you define morality.

Seriously, now - let's not be obtuse.



I'm not the one who's justifying murder, war and invasion based on my definitions, miss.

I don't expect you to deliver an adequate answer for any of this. Your comments are justification and propaganda.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#111 - 2015-07-16 00:20:37 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
I'm not the one who's justifying murder, war and invasion based on my definitions, miss.


Nor am I. My job is saving lives, not ending them. War is coming to Providence, I am merely attempting to minimize the loss of life.
Janica Erris
Seminal Vessels
#112 - 2015-07-16 00:51:54 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
As long as I see CFC roam around in High security space, earning money, hunting people, buying finished products for their needs; as long as I do not see a full functioning and self-sufficient empire in Deklein; as long as I see them violate their own principles and codes of conduct; as long as I see them preach water and drink wine at the same time Max cannot be a savior. Adaptability is not their strength, it is almost none of the Null sec dwellers' strength. Everything is too hard for them, everything too laborious, too time consuming, all they complain about is how easy other people have it; all they can do is complain about Concord and still come back to the area of influence of Concord every day. None of them can lead a properly working empire, all they are interested is murdering themselves and others and chasing rainbows (aka ISK). They are not interested in getting a true empire working with all the consequences. And yet, they demand from others to change, to follow their lead into ... ridicule, or be destroyed.

There is no question whether Max is a savior or a threat -- he is nothing but a would-be heretic who cannot even show his "power" and capability to trigger change in his own followers. There is nothing he offers that you could follow that no one else offers with better, cheaper, less ridiculing conditions.
Cry me a river indeed. Your words are oxy-moronic

Max Singularity wrote:

This is my dream where we Capsuleers of the Sixth Empire can rise and face all the threats.

All the threats to humanity.

Sansha.

Drifters.

We have the power in our hands now, to bring this New Horizon to New Eden.

Be Capsuleers! Be Capsuleers not slaves to false patriotism, false tribalism, false profits, false godheads.

Find kindness for humankind.

God is awaiting those of kindness and love. Wake up. Wake up. It's happening. It's time.

My Lord I await your guidance.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#113 - 2015-07-16 01:27:47 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
I'm not the one who's justifying murder, war and invasion based on my definitions, miss.


Nor am I. My job is saving lives, not ending them. War is coming to Providence, I am merely attempting to minimize the loss of life.


Yet you spend your efforts on telling the defenders to lay down their arms , instead of telling the aggressors to lay down theirs. Telling.
Slobodan Hawkwood
House Hawkwood of Amarr
#114 - 2015-07-16 12:27:07 UTC
To all of those Faithful who are trying to reason with this Heretical scum, remember this:

"Our Lord visited his flock and saw that all was not good.
Blasphemy and heresy ruled the land.
The Lord punished the sinners and drowned them in their own blood.
But the people of Amarr lived righteously and in fear of God.
Thus they were saved and became God's chosen."
- The Scriptures, Book II 2:1

There is no reasoning with Heretics.
Burn them all and every last of their heretical clones with them!

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity."

Paladin's Creed

Arrendis
TK Corp
#115 - 2015-07-16 15:51:50 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Arrendis wrote:
Scherezad wrote:
I'm not the one who's justifying murder, war and invasion based on my definitions, miss.


Nor am I. My job is saving lives, not ending them. War is coming to Providence, I am merely attempting to minimize the loss of life.


Yet you spend your efforts on telling the defenders to lay down their arms , instead of telling the aggressors to lay down theirs. Telling.


Yes. I spend my efforts here, where the defenders can read my words, speaking to them. Shall I, then, speak to the residents of Providence in internal Goonswarm communiques? I doubt they'll get most of them. What I say to those within my Alliance, I say to them in our own communications systems, where they are more likely to read those words. Our fleet commanders know what I do. They know I oppose empty, needless deaths. But please, feel free to continue to ride your high horse and offer lectures on a morality you cannot even clearly define. I have no such difficulties:

Moral action is that action which is in-line with the greatest benefit for the greatest number of people. All other action is at least amoral, having neither moral, nor immoral implications, or actively immoral, pursuing its goals despite clear implication of long-term harm to a significant portion of humanity.

If the choice is between war and slavery, then war - which will kill a given numberof people now, but inflict limited harm on future generations - is more moral than permitting the existence of slavery. Slavery not only harms people in the present, it harms future generations as well, both by perpetuating the oppression and by perpetuating the tolerance and acceptance of oppression. If one death now prevents over a thousand children from being born into slavery over the next century (10 slaves have 2 children each. 2 decades later, those 20 have 2 children each. Another 2 decades, and those 40 have 2 children each. At 60 year, each of those 80 has 2. At 80, each of those 160 has 2. By the century mark, the current generation has given birth to 640 slaves, plus the 320 + 160 + 80 + 40 + 20 = 1,280), then how can you say that one death is immoral?

Is it an evil? Of course. But it may be a necessary evil.

That does not mean I advocate war. Only that sometimes, I accept its necessity. And when it is necessary, then I will not hesitate to plead with our enemies to not waste their lives needlessly. I have seen hundreds of thousands of men and women die for nothing in a single day. I have watched as titans, the ships designed by the Empires to be all but unstoppable, withered and died one after another for hours on end. I have seen hundreds of battleships consumed in fire in a matter of minutes, supercarriers dying faster than their crew can understand what is happening to them under a dozen simultaneous Doomsday weapons. I have seen these things and I have tried again and again to mitigate the loss, to save what lives can be saved, and still I dedicate myself to that proposition.

But you, who are nothing but a murderer of small things by ones and twos, you would lecture me on the horrors of war? Educate yourself, little fish. The sea between the stars is great, and wide.

Kontrahage
Perkone
Caldari State
#116 - 2015-07-16 19:01:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Kontrahage
How many slaves did you free when you burnt Amarr?

Also please don't tell me the goon wars of the past decade were all for the betterment of mankind
and far more than senseless devastation.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#117 - 2015-07-16 19:06:20 UTC
Kontrahage wrote:
How many slaves did you free when you burnt Amarr?


Economic warfare places stress on an economic system. Blockades and interdiction of shipping, much like sanctions, makes it harder to keep an economy moving forward. This, in turn, promotes individuals and economic leaders questioning the 'accepted wisdom' of the current methods of doing things, and encourages them to ask why the interdiction happened in the first place.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#118 - 2015-07-16 20:21:12 UTC
Ms. Arrendis,

I don't believe you.

If you honestly opposed bloodshed, you'd speak out - in public - against the people causing it. Instead you justify it with blind utilitarianism, insult and boasting.

You talk about how *good* you are for hating death while bragging about the 'immense scope' of the wars you participate in.

If you were fighting for peace, you'd be shouting a lot louder to stop this war - and you wouldn't be shouting at us.

You insult me for 'lecturing you on the horrors of war' - a lecture only in your imagination - while waxing poetic about them.

If you found war so horrible, you wouldn't be so keen to brag about the numbers you've slaughtered or seen slaughtered, or think that that number makes any difference between us.

You talk about how much you value freedom, and calculate the blood-cost of a soul.

If you truly believed in freedom and life, you would understand why we will not surrender ours, and you would be more eager to sacrifice your own life, not theirs.

You disgorge paragraphs of crafted words to evade the honest truth. I don't believe you.

If you honestly wanted to stop this you would be speaking out against Max Singularity, publicly, not behind closed doors.

I won't discuss my own efforts to save lives, end death and rescue the helpless - this isn't a platform for me to brag. I certainly don't need to prove anything to an apologist for tyrants.
Anslo
Scope Works
#119 - 2015-07-16 20:24:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Scherezad wrote:
Ms. Arrendis,

I don't believe you.

If you honestly opposed bloodshed, you'd speak out - in public - against the people causing it. Instead you justify it with blind utilitarianism, insult and boasting.

You talk about how *good* you are for hating death while bragging about the 'immense scope' of the wars you participate in.

If you were fighting for peace, you'd be shouting a lot louder to stop this war - and you wouldn't be shouting at us.

You insult me for 'lecturing you on the horrors of war' - a lecture only in your imagination - while waxing poetic about them.

If you found war so horrible, you wouldn't be so keen to brag about the numbers you've slaughtered or seen slaughtered, or think that that number makes any difference between us.

You talk about how much you value freedom, and calculate the blood-cost of a soul.

If you truly believed in freedom and life, you would understand why we will not surrender ours, and you would be more eager to sacrifice your own life, not theirs.

You disgorge paragraphs of crafted words to evade the honest truth. I don't believe you.

If you honestly wanted to stop this you would be speaking out against Max Singularity, publicly, not behind closed doors.

I won't discuss my own efforts to save lives, end death and rescue the helpless - this isn't a platform for me to brag. I certainly don't need to prove anything to an apologist for tyrants.


I can't like this post enough.

Also to the OP, you're not even in the main combat arm of Goonswarm. Does Trav know you're trying to speak on behalf of Goonswarm? Have you been focused more on these ridiculous posts or making sure your participation rate is up? Shouldn't you be busy staging and not flapping your gums as an unauthorized rep? Just curious.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#120 - 2015-07-16 21:00:31 UTC
I will believe that the... goons... are a threat to the Amarr Empire when they will officially have taken a part of their territory.

I am waiting confusedly for this to happen.

Or is that... all talk ?