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T1 Frigate Fit to Kill Tristans
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Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-07-08 17:52:55 UTC
Mr Click wrote:
Going to go with this fitting from Doctor Knuckles as have the skills maxed and is T1 frigate.

Breacher, dual masb or masb + saar and rockets, tristan can't break that tank.

Hopefully come back with with some Tristan kill mails.




This is the only fit/ship that has given me trouble in a hull tanking brawl Tristan.

Kite Tristan is not an issue. It's relatively easy to web/scram and kill his drones to force him off; he has no other DPS unless he's got rails and those do minimal damage.

The really dominant, frankly overpowered fit is the hull tanked brawler with ancillary rep, DCU and DDA. 100-120 drone DPS is enough to force off most kite ships - they usually won't have the tank to sit there and pick off your drones. Then you get another 70-80 DPS for a total ~200 DPS (over 200 heated) with dual neutrons or ions + neut/nos. 1400 hull hp + ancillary and you're looking at ~6-7k EHP and over 200 DPS, half that applicable at any range, out of a T1 hull.

T1 tackle (atron, executioner etc.) does not have the tank to stand up to the constant drone DPS. Incursus with an AAR is going to have trouble applying damage; a smart Tristan pilot will scram kite you with drones until your paste runs out. Cap boosted incursus doesn't work because you can't fit a web. Tormentor I haven't faced because they are not a terribly common ship. Merlin, cursus, rifter, and T1 tackle frigs lose. Navy ships should win (though a neut tristan can murder a comet) but you're having to go up in expense considerably. The dual tanked breacher is the only T1 thing I've lost to in that Tristan fit besides other Tristans, and I don't even fly it all that often. Against a pilot with more experience in that hull even a dual tanked breacher is a coin toss.

TLDR: brawl Tristan OP. Get one, or try a dual tank breacher. If you think an atron or executioner will tank 170 DPS (drones + null) long enough to burn through AAR and hull buffer, I want what you're smoking.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Shadow Cartel
#22 - 2015-07-09 19:26:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Phaade
400 plate SAAR AB Web Scram Tormentor, scram kite.

Probably your best option. Tristan is king o' frigs.

Edit: The Breecher MASB / SAAR is a solid choice as well. Nasty ship.
Yuigun Dhrull
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2015-07-11 19:43:22 UTC
Phaade wrote:
400 plate SAAR AB Web Scram Tormentor, scram kite.

Probably your best option. Tristan is king o' frigs.

Edit: The Breecher MASB / SAAR is a solid choice as well. Nasty ship.


If the tristan is triple neut fitted (which is quite common) you don't want to be in a tormentor. Breacher is better as it is less dependent on cap.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-07-12 01:07:45 UTC
Yuigun Dhrull wrote:
Phaade wrote:
400 plate SAAR AB Web Scram Tormentor, scram kite.

Probably your best option. Tristan is king o' frigs.

Edit: The Breecher MASB / SAAR is a solid choice as well. Nasty ship.


If the tristan is triple neut fitted (which is quite common) you don't want to be in a tormentor. Breacher is better as it is less dependent on cap.


Also that's gonna be slow as hell so the Tristan can just overheat AB and leave. Breacher is quite fast and can dictate range which is really important vs. a Tristan. You can scram kite from outside of neut/null range.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-07-12 03:01:31 UTC
triple neut tristans cant control range so unless you were dumb and didn't immediately burn off when warping into him then you will be fine at 6-7km

Art of Explosions
Andrej Vauban
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-07-12 04:28:27 UTC
The problem with the Tristan is that you don't know what it is. Tell me how the Tristan is fit and its fairly easy to kill. The Tristan can be either rock, paper, or scissors but you just don't know which one.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-07-12 19:24:34 UTC
Andrej Vauban wrote:
The problem with the Tristan is that you don't know what it is. Tell me how the Tristan is fit and its fairly easy to kill. The Tristan can be either rock, paper, or scissors but you just don't know which one.


It's exactly this that makes it such a strong choice.

Generally though I don't worry about MWD kite Tristans as they can be neutralized by killing the drones. Against an AB Tristan whether neut, brawl or scram kite, range control + good tank is required. Most T1 frigates can't do both; the breacher is one that can.
Bobb Bobbington
Rattini Tribe
Minmatar Fleet Alliance
#28 - 2015-07-14 03:04:43 UTC
Okay, honest to God, once I fit a smartbombing tristan just for killing other tristans. I almost killed somebody with it, but then the novelty wore off (plus the cap sucked) so I stopped using it.

This is a signature.

It has a 25m signature.

No it's not a cosmic signature.

Probably.

Btw my corp's recruiting.
Count Szadek
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-07-15 12:37:08 UTC
hmm i've always enjoyed a Tormentor for Hunting Tristans.
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#30 - 2015-07-15 22:20:50 UTC
Something with missiles. As a turret/drone pilot, dealing with missile frigs is a nightmare. I really don't get why they say they are underpowered.
Mr Click
Mr Click Corp
#31 - 2015-07-22 03:03:29 UTC
Update : Me VrS Tristans in T1 frigate

Bad News : I still haven't killed one.
Good News I got close once, but he got away.

(disclaimer I am terrible at pvp anyway)

Have been using Breecher and Kestral and found Breecher is working for me better.

So what I would like some help with is.

For kite tristans my warp scarmbler keeps missing when I am sitting in plexes and they get out of range before I can do anything. Any ideas? At the moment I sit about 4000m off where they land in plex (in case it is blaster/rail fit so I can get in close or move away).

Second thing. With Kite Tristans. Can never kill their drones. As soon as they are nearly dead they get pulled back, their shields recharged and fired back again. Is their any rockets, or drone types more effective at killing drones?

Think I am close to getting kills on blaster tristans. Difficulty is not knowing which ones I am facing when they land in plex.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2015-07-22 07:33:10 UTC
Mr Click wrote:
Update : Me VrS Tristans in T1 frigate

Bad News : I still haven't killed one.
Good News I got close once, but he got away.

(disclaimer I am terrible at pvp anyway)

Have been using Breecher and Kestral and found Breecher is working for me better.

So what I would like some help with is.

For kite tristans my warp scarmbler keeps missing when I am sitting in plexes and they get out of range before I can do anything. Any ideas? At the moment I sit about 4000m off where they land in plex (in case it is blaster/rail fit so I can get in close or move away).

Second thing. With Kite Tristans. Can never kill their drones. As soon as they are nearly dead they get pulled back, their shields recharged and fired back again. Is their any rockets, or drone types more effective at killing drones?

Think I am close to getting kills on blaster tristans. Difficulty is not knowing which ones I am facing when they land in plex.

Thanks in advance for any help.


1 when you're sitting in a plex, orbit the beacon at 1.5 - 2k, when they slide in OH your prop mod and scram, approach them. Also don't waste time by targeting first and then activating scram, press your scram and then on them on the overview, it will activate as soon as you get the lock on.

2 You should have no problem killing the drones really... anyway if he recalls them they aren't applying damage, and you'll kill them eventually, Manage your tank efficiently, you should have no problem outliving them. Ammo, you should have loaded caldari navy mjolnir rockets (EM damage, excellent for the kite tristan resist hole), NEVER use the rage t2 variant unless you have 2 webs, or are shooting something bigger than you. Drones to kill drones, well the best would be warriors, they have better tracking, but you might have acolytes for the EM damage profile, they work either way


On not knowing what kind they are when landing in plex,... well, yeah, that's arguably the best trait of the tristan hull. It's about knowing the pilots in the are and what they prefear to fly, check their killboards. Also, most of the times a tristan sliding into an occupied plex will be brawl / neut fit, doing it with a kite one is pretty risky, but as you have seen, still happens.

Your modus operandi shouldn't change all that much in the first moments of the fight, the only difference is the ammo you should be using, mjolnir vs kite (shield tank, vulnerable to EM) or nova against brawlers (armor tank, weak vs explosive, or hull tank, neutral to all). At the beginning approach, untill you're sure they're not kite fit. After that, orbit close if they're kite or rail fit, orbit at 7.5k / keep range if they're blaster or neut fit.

You'll get that kill soon mate

o7
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#33 - 2015-07-23 14:28:58 UTC
Doctor Knuckles wrote:

Ammo, you should have loaded caldari navy mjolnir rockets (EM damage, excellent for the kite tristan resist hole), NEVER use the rage t2 variant unless you have 2 webs, or are shooting something bigger than you.

I always thought rage rockets had no trouble applying their dps to a frig that is webed by only one web, or am I missing something?
Doctor Knuckles
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2015-07-24 08:33:17 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Doctor Knuckles wrote:

Ammo, you should have loaded caldari navy mjolnir rockets (EM damage, excellent for the kite tristan resist hole), NEVER use the rage t2 variant unless you have 2 webs, or are shooting something bigger than you.

I always thought rage rockets had no trouble applying their dps to a frig that is webed by only one web, or am I missing something?


it depends.

Hulls that have a bonus to missile velocity can make it work perfectly with 1 web, or even no web (example, kestrel).

Breacher can't, with 1 web caldari navy nets more dps than rage
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2015-07-24 11:56:43 UTC
for killing drones, make sure you're scram+webbing them

Art of Explosions
Yuigun Dhrull
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2015-07-25 09:51:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Yuigun Dhrull
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
for killing drones, make sure you're scram+webbing them


This advise seems a bit counterintuitive to me. I am all on board with the web, but scram them?? how do you avoid that the tristan just warps off if you put your scram on the drones?

Do you fly some kind of double scram , one web fit??

If you only fly with one scram, the problem is he has 8 drones in bay. Before you have killed the 8th drone(or even the 6th), he would know which way the wind is blowing and just warp off.

Also if he is mwd fit you would allow him to turn it on every time you scram a drone, and he will burn out of scram range. MWD tristans are so fast, that you will have a hard time catching him again if you loose scram in the first place.

*edited for typos*
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2015-07-25 11:57:13 UTC
obviously you will be scram+webbing drones when you can't actually get in range of a tristan to do these things.

Art of Explosions
Nicholas Goldfinder
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#38 - 2015-08-28 22:47:01 UTC
Indeed any kiter or medium range weapon system can kill a tristan. Then it is a SP/fit fight.

Scram+web kills drones fast. Having his drones killed is already a damage for a drone pilot, as their value is almost on par with the value of the hull. It is a pity that they do not show up on kb.

CCP, please add drone kills to kb or a stat somewhere. That would raise awareness.
Nicholas Goldfinder
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#39 - 2015-08-28 22:48:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicholas Goldfinder
Yuigun Dhrull wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
for killing drones, make sure you're scram+webbing them


This advise seems a bit counterintuitive to me. I am all on board with the web, but scram them?? how do you avoid that the tristan just warps off if you put your scram on the drones?

Do you fly some kind of double scram , one web fit??

If you only fly with one scram, the problem is he has 8 drones in bay. Before you have killed the 8th drone(or even the 6th), he would know which way the wind is blowing and just warp off.

Also if he is mwd fit you would allow him to turn it on every time you scram a drone, and he will burn out of scram range. MWD tristans are so fast, that you will have a hard time catching him again if you loose scram in the first place.

*edited for typos*



Please read my answer just a bit up, for why killing drones is almost as important as killing the hull.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2015-08-29 03:56:11 UTC
You will not kill the drones off a good brawl tristan pilot before he kills you. If he's kite you can bit then he will just leave. You needsomething with equivalent dps and tank that can mitigate damage from blasters via scramkiting.

Breacher or tormentor.
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