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New direct PvP option (Matchmaking style)

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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#81 - 2015-07-15 20:20:24 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
vccv wrote:

You can buy a cup of coffee at taco bell for .35 cents, but it tastes like ass and is made of radioactive muck. Meanwhile you are free to visit the small cafe down the street and partake in some of the finest roasts. They don't have a drive through, huge lines, and it is quiet inside for you to sit and enjoy. They have been in business longer than most of the fast food joints in town but aren't nearly as known as taco hell.. I'm also fairly certain that they have no interests in creating a drive through and changing their recipes to cater to the "muck suckers" down the street. They understand quality vs quantity.

I was in the USA once, and what they served there can not be considered coffee. It was hot water with something that did not even taste like coffee. I had to order double espresso and tell them explicitly to not add more water after that stuff came out of the machine to get something that reminded me remotely of coffee.
If you think that their coffee is bad, you should try their tea Evil

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#82 - 2015-07-15 20:23:13 UTC
Vadik Volkov wrote:

Cidinal,

This comment places EVE on a pedestal and pigeon holes every other MMO. Is it truly fair to state players of other MMO's only do this or that? Are you sure you can be the determining point of knowledge for all other MMO's specifically stereotyping the entire player base?

I enjoy a myriad of video games. I would like to share EVE with other gamers. In its current state most do not want to share the EVE experience. I would not mind changes to reflect an inclusion of new players. I would be just as disappointed if CCP decided to ruin their game as you would. But to hide EVE in a closet and say its perfect as it is please don't touch it seems sort of close minded to me.


That's why I said 'average MMO player'. It's definitely not all by any means. I am just going based on my own personal experience. I only started EVE two years ago, before that I very actively played SWTOR and Rift. I still jump into those two every once in a while. 90% of the people I know in those games give me the type of response I posted above when i try to get them to try EVE.

I wasn't trying to put EVE on a pedestal, I was actually pigeon holing EVE, not other MMOs. EVE is very unique in the MMO universe, which is why it has a smaller player base, and is why it has been successful for so long.
Avvy
Doomheim
#83 - 2015-07-15 20:39:06 UTC
Vadik Volkov wrote:
The second you propose an idea relating to another, or many, other games the community majority will vilify you for it. The players who "PVP" want it to stay as it is. It is unfortunate, but meh, what you going to do. If the idea you propose has merit, the first thing you will hear is SANDBOX! SANDBOX!, like EVE is actually this player molded thing.



That's part of the problem with MMOs these days.


Too many players change to a different MMO then start to try and change it to a clone of what they've played before. Same thing different skin, which is why most MMOs are not even worth playing any longer.

Players in general should change their playing style to suit the game not expect the game to change to suit them.
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#84 - 2015-07-15 20:44:08 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
vccv wrote:

You can buy a cup of coffee at taco bell for .35 cents, but it tastes like ass and is made of radioactive muck. Meanwhile you are free to visit the small cafe down the street and partake in some of the finest roasts. They don't have a drive through, huge lines, and it is quiet inside for you to sit and enjoy. They have been in business longer than most of the fast food joints in town but aren't nearly as known as taco hell.. I'm also fairly certain that they have no interests in creating a drive through and changing their recipes to cater to the "muck suckers" down the street. They understand quality vs quantity.

I was in the USA once, and what they served there can not be considered coffee. It was hot water with something that did not even taste like coffee. I had to order double espresso and tell them explicitly to not add more water after that stuff came out of the machine to get something that reminded me remotely of coffee.
If you think that their coffee is bad, you should try their tea Evil

A trip to Whole Foods for some fair trade beans, and a Moka pot will make you a better coffee than you can buy made by any barista. Cheaper too.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
Vadik Volkov
Doomheim
#85 - 2015-07-15 20:44:12 UTC
Cidanel Afuran wrote:


That's why I said 'average MMO player'. It's definitely not all by any means. I am just going based on my own personal experience. I only started EVE two years ago, before that I very actively played SWTOR and Rift. I still jump into those two every once in a while. 90% of the people I know in those games give me the type of response I posted above when i try to get them to try EVE.

I wasn't trying to put EVE on a pedestal, I was actually pigeon holing EVE, not other MMOs. EVE is very unique in the MMO universe, which is why it has a smaller player base, and is why it has been successful for so long.



Cidanel,

I understood clearly everything you were trying to get across until "and that's why it has been so successful for so long."

The first question I ask you is successful at what? Now this question is kind of loaded because any moron could just argue, no matter what your answer is, against it. So I will clarify to some extent.

EVE has been successful, from where I sit, at having a player driven economy unmatched by any other game. CCP has given birth to a universe more in depth and "playable" then any I have seen anywhere. Even though PVE content is their last concern, it is not without noting some of the PVE experience you have in EVE can be more rich with lore, fun for groups, and very skillfully planed out.

I cannot agree that EVE is the foremost experts at Player vs. Player encounters. I will go so far as to say almost every other game I have played, with exception, has far more skill based (not talking skill points) but raw skill from player to the monitor, skill based combat. Before I started playing EVE I, like many others, watched the promo video. I expected to combat other players in a full 3 dimensional environment, where how I piloted my ship could mean the difference between life or death. Sadly that's not how to EVE PVP. Unlike many other players I did not get smart bombed while traveling and quit EVE. I stuck it out, and have tried in many ways and multiple times to enhance my PVP experience.

What I have learned and have accepted through knowledge and experience is if I want fast twitch, heart pounding, meaningful (to me) PVP, I must find it elsewhere.

To expound on the coffee analogy. I am an ex US Army combat vet. The coffee served to me was.......bad. I can drink pretty much any other coffee from anywhere and be satisfied, because well its better then Army coffee. Some analogies only apply to people who have had like experience. My writing in the forums today is an attempt to clue in another player that PVP changes are not coming any time soon. At the same time though with my very large experience in many other games, I can say with fair amount of confidence EVE PVP could be better.
Black Pedro
Mine.
#86 - 2015-07-15 20:48:48 UTC
Vadik Volkov wrote:
I disagree that every aspect of EVE is linked to PVP. I don't PVP, yet I still have fun, I still do the things I want to do. I may not be the normal average player in EVE, maybe something of an anomaly, pun intended. I would though PVP if it was changed to something resembling what the EVE advertisements promise. And after 2 years in the game I have a fair grasp into why it hasn't changed. Honestly it never has to and I will be happy. To each their own. This still doesn't change my reflection of PVP in EVE compared to the PVP I have experienced in many, many other games. Its inferiority stands as a fact, not an opinion. If EVE PVP was as great as EVE (lol) "Elite PVPers" think it is, then why have other gamers not flocked to EVE for the PVP experience.

CCP could expand its player base by making PVP more accessible to the new player. The old player will not allow that to happen. Matchmaking could solve some of this issue, maybe. I am not so sure it would, but am also not against seeing something like this implemented.

I am afraid you are wrong. One clue comes from the name of the game: Everyone vs. Everyone. Everything that you do in this game in competition with other players. That is the special sauce of Eve - a single universe where that each player influences with their actions. Of course some of your actions are more meaningful than others, but all of them affect the overall state of the New Eden. When you mine an asteroid, it isn't there for me. When you sell that ore on the market, you reduce the price for me. It's all PvP.

Now if you are referring to space combat between ships, definitely not all of Eve is directly about that. But all resource gathering, industry and so forth is only meaningful because ship combat is going on: everything we build is for shooting each other, or to make more stuff to shoot each other. Ship PvP fuels the player-driven economy and without it, everything would quickly collapse.

If you don't like ship combat in Eve, but like to build things and are having fun, that is a perfectly fine way to play in the sandbox. But you are still PvPing with the other industrialists and miners who are trying to make and sell the same goods.

But to the OP, no this is a terrible idea that has been proposed hundreds of times before. Eve is a sandbox PvP game, that is an open universe where we forge our own destinies, not have it dictated by artificial mechanics. If you want to start an arena or tournament, then please do, but do not ask CCP to throw out over a decade of game design out the window because you are unable to find fights. Besides, a good corp will be able to organize ample training evens to get you up to speed in short order.

The 8 Golden Rules of Eve

Why Do They Gank?
Falin Whalen
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2015-07-15 20:49:25 UTC
Avvy wrote:
Vadik Volkov wrote:
The second you propose an idea relating to another, or many, other games the community majority will vilify you for it. The players who "PVP" want it to stay as it is. It is unfortunate, but meh, what you going to do. If the idea you propose has merit, the first thing you will hear is SANDBOX! SANDBOX!, like EVE is actually this player molded thing.



That's part of the problem with MMOs these days.


Too many players change to a different MMO then start to try and change it to a clone of what they've played before. Same thing different skin, which is why most MMOs are not even worth playing any longer.

Players in general should change their playing style to suit the game not expect the game to change to suit them.

How dare you say that I should change my play style, I spend my $15.00 on this game and I demand that it cater to my needs, wants, and whims.

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 
xHEPBx
Doomheim
#88 - 2015-07-15 20:51:06 UTC
well the thing is the way eve is its differant to other mmorpg . the OP wants to turn this into a WoT or Warthunder.

point being you can just go play those games and be happy lol
Baaldor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#89 - 2015-07-15 20:56:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Baaldor
Vadik Volkov wrote:
What I have learned and have accepted through knowledge and experience is if I want fast twitch, heart pounding, meaningful (to me) PVP, I must find it elsewhere.


One difference, in those twitch games, you really do not have "Loss" in any meaning full way. Here you do . There is a trade off. And it is more cerebral than hand and eye coord.



Vadik Volkov wrote:

To expound on the coffee analogy. I am an ex US Army combat vet. The coffee served to me was.......bad. I can drink pretty much any other coffee from anywhere and be satisfied, because well its better then Army coffee. Some analogies only apply to people who have had like experience. My writing in the forums today is an attempt to clue in another player that PVP changes are not coming any time soon. At the same time though with my very large experience in many other games, I can say with fair amount of confidence EVE PVP could be better.



I too am an ex-combat vet and the coffee was fine, especially if you have no other choice. You learn to adapt, and find the better qualities of it. Work with it.

And once you have done that, you learn to appreciate that you you could have none. And coffee was one of the last things you had to worry about, not to mention, i don't remember really seeing that often unless I happened to visit guys with the gear in the rear.

As far as the other games, you have to understand this one, before you try and compare to others. This one is not the others.

Can it be imporved sure it can. And it has been over the years, some improvements were good...others....not so much.
Trevor Dalech
Nobody in Local
Deepwater Hooligans
#90 - 2015-07-15 20:58:41 UTC
Unless it's possible to:
A) trick people into a matchmaking style arena while they don't realize it and are flying an iteron V stashed full to the brim, or
B) invade other people's match and shoot all involved parties.

I'm gonna say no...


If you want pvp, go shoot someone or go get shot. It's really not hard.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#91 - 2015-07-15 21:03:55 UTC
random unsocial scrub fleets = pipebombing target practice.....fully supported +1

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#92 - 2015-07-15 22:25:24 UTC
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