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Is Providence comparable to highsec?

First post
Author
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2015-07-15 19:52:20 UTC
Yeah I agree that I am fixated on how I know what works, but lack insight on how others run the show. Though the similarities have to be there, else things simply would not work at all. I had a good insight in how it works with goons and translate that to other people. It's basic things, really, applicable to a huge amount of people. Like baiting people with power, money and fun.

And yeah, I've been talking about competitive behaviour on a specific level and left out a good part of the context.


Anyhow ... believe me, I wish you guys all the best down there!

Thanks for your participation! Looking forward to disect all the posts! Lol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#82 - 2015-07-15 19:53:48 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:

Neither, actually.
Can you explain why I'm wrong with what I wrote?
Did you notice that I excluded Providence?

Did you ever join the goons?


I have lived in Provi and have been in CFC.

I see major alliances as much more of a mirror of real life than high sec ever can be. In real life everyone has a few roles to play, has obligations, etc. and goes out to have fun (ie, create content) only when their day to day obligations are fulfilled. Alliance living is akin to the professional IRL who holds a job, has a mortgage, etc. High sec is a free for all, for the most part
Alleja DeSan-na
La Rapida
#83 - 2015-07-15 19:59:11 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:

Bumping was an example of "emergent gameplay", btw, which is nothing that seems to happen within nullsec "empires" and seems to be only happening when someone from outside provides it for them. Would you agree or disagree?

From that last line before the edit, I read that you agree that there's only a reduced spectrum of gameplay available?


Your assumptions are wrongs on the very basis. There is no a "reduced spectrum" or augmented one, there are only different ways to reach the goal.

Your miner bumping of HS to free a belt is our red alt in a cloaked ship somewhere in an industrial system. There is no difference, the target is the same: free the belt to stop the production.

Your lack of knowledge of null is what lead you to this assumptions.
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#84 - 2015-07-15 19:59:44 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
The leaders/executors of nullsov alliances, like "big brother", make sure everyone who is a part of it fits in, everyone has something to do and no one steps onto each other's toes. Any behaviour counter to what benefits the alliance will either be corrected or the person will be removed from the group.

The highsec empires are much more a mirror of what we still see in the real world. In contrast, a "Nullsec empire" is comparable to "big brother" where people do have responsibilities for the alliance, but everything else is being taken care of. They are being breastfed with content and ISK and whoever falls out of the line will either be corrected or purged from the society.


Your metaphor needs a lot of help.

The most successful capsuleer organizations follow the model of a military, not a civilian government. Democratic alliances fail for the same reasons that democratic militaries do: because sometimes somebody has to make a call right now, and you always have to be 100% sure who that person is at all times. Deliberation is for peacetime, and peacetime is not generally considered good game play.

The kind of artificially forced competition you want within a group is inefficient: one miner driving another miner out of a belt is less efficient than two miners in the same belt, and inefficient alliances have fewer resources than efficient alliances. Furthermore, people who are used to working well together will accomplish more than people who aren't. In the large-scale competition that defines null sec, the efficient and the cooperative tend to win, and the inefficient and discordant tend to lose.

The NPC empires are wallpaper. They're so huge that nothing you do or don't do has any effect on them, so they're completely indifferent to your actions. They've even delegated police work to bots, because they'd really rather that capsuleers had never existed in the first place. There's no analogy between them and any capsuleer organization. If you don't like space where people are organized and motivated to fleet up and kill you for harassing them, then high sec is the place for you. In dangerous space, people have to work together to survive.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Jenshae Chiroptera
#85 - 2015-07-15 20:04:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
This might help to highlight just how non-competative Provi is:

We had a neutral with so many toons that he would wipe out the ice belt before anyone could get to it and he operated out of a POS so he didn't need to dock and pay any sort of station or refining fees.

We actually miss having him around. P

Defend against reds, improve those around you.
Simple.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2015-07-15 20:07:54 UTC
These last posts are really good! Smile

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Jenshae Chiroptera
#87 - 2015-07-15 20:20:45 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
In dangerous space, people have to work together to survive.
... or just move around farming smaller groups because they have run out of things to do, like bored fat kids with magnifying glasses, who get sulky when the ants nibble them. P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#88 - 2015-07-15 20:45:45 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
In dangerous space, people have to work together to survive.
... or just move around farming smaller groups because they have run out of things to do[.] P


Well, yes, that too.. P

And actually, contra Angelica's definition of "content," this is definitely content because even a failed roam (which I'm familiar with--who else can FC a fleet through Amamake three times without getting a single fight?) still builds camaraderie and community among the pilots. It constructs a shared narrative, in-jokes, and stupid links in Fleet. It gets people familiar with each other and the way they play. Content is not merely oppositional or destructive. This is a game fundamentally about interactions between people; any interaction between people is significant in one way or another.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#89 - 2015-07-15 22:21:58 UTC
Closed at OP's request.

ISD Dorrim Barstorlode

Senior Lead

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department