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Idea for new wh

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unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-07-09 19:10:04 UTC
I don't think any wormholer mind that null-secers use the wormhole chains.
More People means more targets!
It nullseccers that hate it for the "power" projection.
So it is again a change only null seccers want that is imposed on us.

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
#62 - 2015-07-09 20:35:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Shilalasar
Hey, it is hard to be a nullbear with infite sites in system if people can actually jump you. Esp if they can just show up on grid with you without warning. None would risk something valuable like a carrier for that. And there is no way to get help since you are all alone in the system and none in systems nearby. And even with the new upgrades you can only run like 5-8 people per system at the same time since the gates only let one ship in so you can´t work together and the lower sites have **** ticks and those are all that matters.
I really think they need missionhubs so full coalitions can all rat in one system.
And now there are all those wormholethings around that allow people to show up in your backyard without having to travel through 20 superbubbled gates, bypassing the gatecamp you have on the one entrancegate to the region and sometimes they don´t even show up in the automated intelchannels/-maps.
And do you have any idea how hard it is to get stuff out there? No minerals to build from since you have to sell them in jita and then you have to take a few JF jumps to get your stuff. Not even talking about the ice you need if you have to e-jump your rattingnyx out of a site, CCP already killed titanratting.

Edit: And can you even imagine how hard it is to stomp on small entities if they are able to bring help via wormholes? Just look at poor CFC-forces in Venal, having to bring so many people to handle some NPC-noobs because more enemies keep on showing up via wormholes. Or poor Darkness who can´t even use supers without some 30 cruisers showing up from the other side of the universe.

Yeah, nerfing nullwormholes was a great move, but let´s ry to at least get some compensation that will not be utterly useless. ( Remember all those people whining about frigholes making it impossible to PvE before implementation...)
Alundil
Rolled Out
#63 - 2015-07-10 00:56:12 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
I find it absurd that this is even an idea we are entertaining enough to present.

Wasn't the whole idea we got frig holes to increase connections between WH's and null/k-space.


EDIT: Also why would you even want a WH with less mass to null????? Mostly null roams go like this - take a few guys, find content yell for more lads to help out (Just like those null guys are cynoing in more help). Wouldn't lower mass holes just tilt this even more to the favor of null residents. Why do you want to gimp yourselves further and why would you care that null blobs are moving through your chain, You should be ******* ecstatic about them using your chain.

Basically this ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm right behind you
Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#64 - 2015-07-10 02:37:01 UTC
Winthorp wrote:
I find it absurd that this is even an idea we are entertaining enough to present.

Wasn't the whole idea we got frig holes to increase connections between WH's and null/k-space. Frig holes are such a waste of time why would we want more low mass WH's?

I also don't think the null nerf will be as much of an issue as it has been made out to be.

I would love to see the figures on usage stats of frig Wh's before we go asking CCP for more useless crap tbh.

EDIT: Also why would you even want a WH with less mass to null????? Mostly null roams go like this - take a few guys, find content yell for more lads to help out (Just like those null guys are cynoing in more help). Wouldn't lower mass holes just tilt this even more to the favor of null residents. Why do you want to gimp yourselves further and why would you care that null blobs are moving through your chain, You should be ******* ecstatic about them using your chain.


I was just asking for bigger holes to play with. The problem is not that my ship is long, it is thick...

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#65 - 2015-07-10 15:06:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Phoenix Jones
I said something before which caused me to rethink this compromise (a shot of vodka helped).

I said it was adequate.

my gut says this is wrong. Our attitude (especially mine) got wrapped so much in the politics that we forgot the issues that were just in front of us.


Wormholes provide a check towards both pve and pvp activities throughout new Eden. Wormholers are the boogie men of eve. We reach places that roamers can't, cyno's can't, and other groups can't. We as that nullsec check to unlimited farming. Renters fear us, nullsec ratters fear us, we cause people to not be afk in null deep null behind enemy lines and to pay attention.

Now does this suck? Yes. The game has been put solely in favor of null, and the deck is stacked against us. I do hope fozziesov succeeds, but we, as wormholers, need our own revamp. We are looking at nullsec as a crutch to the growing lack of content in c5 and c6 space. One of the generators is being reduced, which doesn't bode well the for the space. If we are to ask for change, it can't be solely for more null connections, it has to be a review on how our homes work, what can be done to get more pew, and how to kill off the obscene amount of farming alt corps that have cropped up throughout the years.

A look at the total mechanic needs to be done, and some basic research towards isolating wormholes needs to be addressed. We are not nullsec. We should not have FarmVille with the ability to crit to roll holes and a total blockade of pvp content within our grasp. If CCP believes that having a nullsec carrier earn a billion ISk a day, everyday, with unlimited anoms and no fear of retaliation except a total invasion is is a great idea, fine. If nullsec want to carebear while watching "My Little Pony", who am I to stop them.

But to hell if I want wspace to turn into that nonsense.

We need to rebalance wspace, open it up, and get it back to the fundamentals they once were at.

Yaay!!!!
Scott Ormands
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2015-07-10 16:47:52 UTC
One of my favorite activities in the past few weeks has been blops fleets. These first changes only hurt my ability to find places to hunt and roam. If there are going to be replacement holes then they should at least have the mass to take 4-5 Blops BS rounds trip. Otherwise this is a waste of everyones time, mine, yours, and the devs.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#67 - 2015-07-10 18:00:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
corbexx wrote:
Shilalasar wrote:
Is there a good reason to exclude battleships? Besides keeping the overall mass low.
If BS are allowed I think jumpmass should be below higgsrigged BS since they are only used for closing it anyways. For the same reason maxmass should be above 2 times BS so it doesn´t jus die in one go.

Of course that would also mean 25+ cruisers passable, so enough to kill a carrier and a good number for all but the biggest wormholecorps.

But adding them will allow PL again to mess with people all around Eve just instead of 50 Ishtars they´d use D3s or interceptors. Not that I have a problem with this but isn´t that the reason for the nerf in the first place?


the reason for no bs was cos Iowa Banshee thought it woudl make it to easy for nullsec (grr goon) to collaspe, i'm happy with what ever w space thinks best



I was thinking that the proposed WH were static and as such my comment was based on this - Not wandering


=====
NOTE
=====
I (We) do react differently to you than we do towards other CSMs, If Chance had posted this my first instinct would not be to look for what's in it for the Goons but I (we) question your motives after the "Pantomime" you performed at Fan-Fest.

- We don't know that you are picking causes & ideas because they favor low-sec dwellers.
- We don't know that any comments you make, suggestions you add or ideas you come up with are for the benefit of W-Space dwellers or on the agenda of the Goons.

If you don't like that we think this way maybe should partake in fewer "ring kissing alliance joining ceremonies"


My opinion and as such just a statement about how I feel not what YOU are like
Steven Hackett
Overload This
Escalation Theory
#68 - 2015-07-14 12:20:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Steven Hackett
Quote:
This is CCP Fozzie bringing you another dev blog

Nuff said..

Without actualy reading the devblog I assume it involves making changes without thinking of the consequences.. Can't we just get some real game designers soon? pl0x?

Edit:
After reading the devblog, I realize that my assumption was correct and Fozzie is still being bad and Fozzie..
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#69 - 2015-07-14 21:21:12 UTC
corbexx wrote:
With the dev blog out here


"We are also making some slight tweaks to the Quantum Flux Generator system upgrade in our July 14th release. These are intended as a slight buff to anyone who uses Quantum Flux Generators for PVE daytripping, while also addressing concerns expressed by some CSM members. "

I assume the first sentence means that either these wormholes will have a greater chance of spawning to C1s->C3s which are easier to farm, or that they'll have a greater chance to spawning to wormholes with fewer other connections. Generally I assume that they aren't going to implement something that is overly expensive in computing terms, so I go with the first.

Insofar as QFGs work at all.
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#70 - 2015-07-15 17:47:47 UTC
Necharo Rackham wrote:
corbexx wrote:
With the dev blog out here


"We are also making some slight tweaks to the Quantum Flux Generator system upgrade in our July 14th release. These are intended as a slight buff to anyone who uses Quantum Flux Generators for PVE daytripping, while also addressing concerns expressed by some CSM members. "

I assume the first sentence means that either these wormholes will have a greater chance of spawning to C1s->C3s which are easier to farm, or that they'll have a greater chance to spawning to wormholes with fewer other connections. Generally I assume that they aren't going to implement something that is overly expensive in computing terms, so I go with the first.

Insofar as QFGs work at all.



I read this as reducing the connections to the higher class wormholes where null day trippers may encounter skilled corps that can put up a decent fight and increasing the chance of a lower class WH spawn where the chances of encountering a group that can do something other than hide are greatly reduced - Yes I would say that will help PVE day trippers from k-space lots.

How about a QFG for J-space that increases the chance of WH spawns to K-Space - you know - as a balance for the wormhole PVP day trippers ?

Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#71 - 2015-07-15 18:40:43 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:
corbexx wrote:
Shilalasar wrote:
Is there a good reason to exclude battleships? Besides keeping the overall mass low.
If BS are allowed I think jumpmass should be below higgsrigged BS since they are only used for closing it anyways. For the same reason maxmass should be above 2 times BS so it doesn´t jus die in one go.

Of course that would also mean 25+ cruisers passable, so enough to kill a carrier and a good number for all but the biggest wormholecorps.

But adding them will allow PL again to mess with people all around Eve just instead of 50 Ishtars they´d use D3s or interceptors. Not that I have a problem with this but isn´t that the reason for the nerf in the first place?


the reason for no bs was cos Iowa Banshee thought it woudl make it to easy for nullsec (grr goon) to collaspe, i'm happy with what ever w space thinks best



I was thinking that the proposed WH were static and as such my comment was based on this - Not wandering


=====
NOTE
=====
I (We) do react differently to you than we do towards other CSMs, If Chance had posted this my first instinct would not be to look for what's in it for the Goons but I (we) question your motives after the "Pantomime" you performed at Fan-Fest.

- We don't know that you are picking causes & ideas because they favor low-sec dwellers.
- We don't know that any comments you make, suggestions you add or ideas you come up with are for the benefit of W-Space dwellers or on the agenda of the Goons.

If you don't like that we think this way maybe should partake in fewer "ring kissing alliance joining ceremonies"


My opinion and as such just a statement about how I feel not what YOU are like


my ******* face when people are still grr goons-ing, just be glad you have a CSM who asks for your opinions~

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2015-07-15 19:23:37 UTC
Andrew Jester wrote:
my ******* face when people are still grr goons-ing, just be glad you have a CSM who asks for your opinions~
Incidentally, noone ever asks or cares about your opinion. So it balances out nicely.

SSC Brokering Service
Bleedingthrough
#73 - 2015-07-17 13:09:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Bleedingthrough
As I understand it Fozzie has a problem with the amount of random connections that can be used to project power while roaming through w-space. And this is true. It is relatively easy to find a null somewhere that leads to a desired target or from the target system into w-space. (before the patch)

I don’t think there is a problem with WH groups using null connections for their entertainment and I think that nerfs to this are an unintended byproduct. It is our birthright to mess with null, can't argue that.

If this is the case adding a new wandering would not solve the problem but it would make sense to add very high mass statics leading to null (maybe add them to C6, just a brainfart) which can be rolled by inhabitants and not so easily by trespassers.
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#74 - 2015-07-17 13:50:24 UTC
Axloth Okiah wrote:
Andrew Jester wrote:
my ******* face when people are still grr goons-ing, just be glad you have a CSM who asks for your opinions~
Incidentally, noone ever asks or cares about your opinion. So it balances out nicely.

my forum epeen begs to differ~ Try again next time kiddo, you'll get it one day Roll

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#75 - 2015-07-17 20:15:00 UTC
Iowa Banshee wrote:

I read this as reducing the connections to the higher class wormholes where null day trippers may encounter skilled corps that can put up a decent fight and increasing the chance of a lower class WH spawn where the chances of encountering a group that can do something other than hide are greatly reduced - Yes I would say that will help PVE day trippers from k-space lots


Yes, that was the first option in my post above.

As a side effect it also makes nullsec logistics easier, as lower class wormholes have k-spaces.