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T3D... well done CCP

Author
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#21 - 2015-07-14 14:01:17 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Norrin Ellis wrote:
New shiny is always OP. It's probably already on the board for a nerf in a later release.

...or the next new shiny will make these obsolete.

Currently training Min Tac Des 5. Dude they already did a papercut nerf to svipuls mass/agility thing.

Look at how they nerf now. It takes more than half a year and like 4-5 releases and the thing is still not nerfed enough.
They nerf scortch 2% or nerf ishtar speed 2% lol

Takes like 7months of 6week releases when they do it every other time to get anywhwre near nerfed.


And when they finally do significantly nerf it, itll be over a year of OPness



The beauty of the awesome 6week release cycyle..... LMAO

Whine more. Id take the minor nerfing over them sledge hammering a ship into uselessness (see drake and HML). But hey, Its CAM, actual critical thinking is not what we expect from you. You delivered the whiny, self-entitled drivel we are all used to.
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues
Aprilon Dynasty
#22 - 2015-07-15 05:01:56 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:




The beauty of the awesome 6week release cycyle..... LMAO


If something is broken it wont take 6 weeks to fix, you seem to think the expansion release cycle is the same as the standard patch cycle, they could quite easily change this before the next major release
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#23 - 2015-07-15 05:16:51 UTC
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Norrin Ellis wrote:
New shiny is always OP. It's probably already on the board for a nerf in a later release.

...or the next new shiny will make these obsolete.

Currently training Min Tac Des 5. Dude they already did a papercut nerf to svipuls mass/agility thing.

Look at how they nerf now. It takes more than half a year and like 4-5 releases and the thing is still not nerfed enough.
They nerf scortch 2% or nerf ishtar speed 2% lol

Takes like 7months of 6week releases when they do it every other time to get anywhwre near nerfed.


And when they finally do significantly nerf it, itll be over a year of OPness



The beauty of the awesome 6week release cycyle..... LMAO

Whine more. Id take the minor nerfing over them sledge hammering a ship into uselessness (see drake and HML). But hey, Its CAM, actual critical thinking is not what we expect from you. You delivered the whiny, self-entitled drivel we are all used to.


CCP still have the mentality of the 6 month cycle. Making minor changes that amount to very little over the course of 6 months rather than just sledge hammering everything and saying, "Let's just see what happens, we can put it back again in 6 weeks".
Avvy
Doomheim
#24 - 2015-07-15 05:26:33 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:

CCP still have the mentality of the 6 month cycle. Making minor changes that amount to very little over the course of 6 months rather than just sledge hammering everything and saying, "Let's just see what happens, we can put it back again in 6 weeks".




Small tweaks where balance is concerned is actually a good thing, rather than wildly altering it back and forth.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#25 - 2015-07-15 05:29:38 UTC
Arguable.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#26 - 2015-07-15 05:36:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Riot Girl wrote:
CCP still have the mentality of the 6 month cycle. Making minor changes that amount to very little over the course of 6 months rather than just sledge hammering everything and saying, "Let's just see what happens, we can put it back again in 6 weeks".

But then that is better left for something that has been in the game for a long time, slow tweaks. T3D's are something that suddenly got thrown into our laps after very little testing and then started twerking. Kinda like a trip to Tijuana and your doctor is looking at you funny on your next office visit. A moment of fun for months or even years of pain and discomfort. I hope it was worth it P he says to you lol

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12

Davis TetrisKing
The Vendunari
End of Life
#27 - 2015-07-15 05:41:30 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
T3 Cruisers are definitely somewhat powercreepy (this is a word now), but T3 Destroyers seem to be in a pretty good place. People love to fly them, since they are fast, versatile and reasonably affordable, but they are not overpowered by any means. Looking at the Killboards, they are flown a lot, but they die a lot too. They are weak to Neuts, Scrams and Webs and can be killed even by cheaper and better insured T1 Cruisers, provided the appropriate Rock-Paper-Scissors constellation of fittings.


I think most of the complaints are that they bring power creep to the small ship category. It's good that they can be killed by cheaper T1 cruisers IMO, but they dominate the small ship scene. Most of the complaints are that they replace a lot of existing T2 small ships, doing the same or more things better and a bit cheaper. Especially assault frigs.

Don't get me wrong, I love T3Ds, but I can understand the complaints.
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#28 - 2015-07-15 06:28:08 UTC
Captain Grantkarppe wrote:
I just don't like how common they've become. The diversity of ships seen on grid, especially in small-scale PvP has dwindled as a result of the introduction of T3 destroyers.


It took CCP many many years to finally curb the BC dominance in order to get a more diverse playing field and then they **** it all up again with the introduction of lol overpowered T3D. Not the first time our "balancing dream team" fcks up, Mordu ships are just as ********.
Fornost Fornostsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-07-15 08:42:26 UTC
Minister of Death wrote:
I finally tried Jackdaw. Fun.

Props to whoever came up with the general T3D idea. For pve at least, the idea is fun and the implementation is effective for the idea. The reconfiguration on mode change is really cool. The affects of the different modes are fun. The icons for mode change are easily understandable and good cooldown feedback.

The mode reconfiguration is my favorite my part.

Whoever @CCP is thinking like this, keep doing it. Fun is a good thing, stuff that makes one say 'wow, cool' is good for the game.

Also whoever thought of the wing config change for Cerberus on warp enter/exit... cool touch. Do more stuff.

ya. keep doing that.


T3D are fun to fly.
They are fun mostly because they are OP (at least in the frig - destroyer meta).
They completely f**k up Assault Frigates. Why fly an AF, when you have a T3D that costs a little more but has more speed, more tank and more DPS?

You can fit an Hecate able to fly at 2500 m/s (3611 Overheated), approach the target, scram and double web, shut off the MWD it and deliver 704 dps (810 OH, eight hundred damage per second!) while hull-tanking 11700 EHP with a sig radius of 70...

Do you still need AFs?

So CCP introduced 4 new ships that, basically, make 8 before perfectly balanced ships, unuseful...
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2015-07-15 09:08:12 UTC
Fornost Fornostsen wrote:
Why fly an AF, when you have a T3D that costs a little more...

...unless you whelp it. Then it's cheaper.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#31 - 2015-07-15 09:53:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Fornost Fornostsen wrote:
Why fly an AF, when you have a T3D that costs a little more...
...unless you whelp it. Then it's cheaper.
Only need N+1 more than the others who are also all flying T3Ds

Can't wait for the T3 frigates that are over powered on e-war and logistics. They should go so well with the T3Ds. P

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#32 - 2015-07-15 13:05:14 UTC
Better for CCP to just refund everyones SP that trained for them, apologize and remove them from the game. That will kill 2 birds with one stone instead of having to rebalance AFs to the point where they'll be able to solo everything.
Fornost Fornostsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-07-15 14:53:15 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Fornost Fornostsen wrote:
Why fly an AF, when you have a T3D that costs a little more...

...unless you whelp it. Then it's cheaper.


Yes but... How much cheaper?

I quote you from another post:

Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
Except, there's also insurance fee...

Of course. So in the end it's about what 10-12 m per hull? Almost 2 times cheaper than AFs.


Even without taking into account the insurance thing, a fitted AF is going to cost something around 30/35M, while a T3D can be in the range of 60/70M.

Yes, is the double, but it's still only 30/40M of difference for a ship that is a lot better.

If you look at the small ship meta, there is no such difference between T1 frigs, destros and their tech 2 variants.
With T3D you can have a ship that floats like a ceptor and stings like a destroyer
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2015-07-15 15:45:20 UTC
Fornost Fornostsen wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Fornost Fornostsen wrote:
Why fly an AF, when you have a T3D that costs a little more...

...unless you whelp it. Then it's cheaper.


Yes but... How much cheaper?

I quote you from another post:

Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
Except, there's also insurance fee...

Of course. So in the end it's about what 10-12 m per hull? Almost 2 times cheaper than AFs.


Even without taking into account the insurance thing, a fitted AF is going to cost something around 30/35M, while a T3D can be in the range of 60/70M.

Yes, is the double, but it's still only 30/40M of difference for a ship that is a lot better.

If you look at the small ship meta, there is no such difference between T1 frigs, destros and their tech 2 variants.
With T3D you can have a ship that floats like a ceptor and stings like a destroyer

Lol dude the ENTIRE POINT is that you take insurance into account lol.

Platinum AssFrig insurance gives you 6mill back
Platinum T3D gives 35mill back.

You cant compare prices like you are doing while ignoring the giant imbalancw of said prices lol.
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2015-07-15 15:48:50 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Fornost Fornostsen wrote:
Why fly an AF, when you have a T3D that costs a little more...
Yes but... How much cheaper?

I quote you from another post:

Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
Except, there's also insurance fee...

Of course. So in the end it's about what 10-12 m per hull? Almost 2 times cheaper than AFs.


Even without taking into account the insurance thing, a fitted AF is going to cost something around 30/35M, while a T3D can be in the range of 60/70M.

Yes, is the double, but it's still only 30/40M of difference for a ship that is a lot better.

If you look at the small ship meta, there is no such difference between T1 frigs, destros and their tech 2 variants.
With T3D you can have a ship that floats like a ceptor and stings like a destroyer

Lol dude the ENTIRE POINT is that you take insurance into account lol.

Platinum AssFrig insurance gives you 6mill back
Platinum T3D gives 35mill back.

You cant compare prices like you are doing while ignoring the giant imbalancw of said prices lol.

And your 30/40 mill price difference almost goes to zero with insurance factored in....
For a ship better in every way.


Lol Seriously how did you learn to assert your opinions?
Youd make a terrible politions. ..

"Now guys i know the issue is the several cost imbalance due to drastic different insurance payout... yet if we just ignore said drastic insurance payouts for a monent you can see...."


LOL
Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-07-15 15:57:36 UTC
Lol 37mill svipul 9mill insurance 35mill payout =12mill hull
22mill ishkur 2mill insurance 6mill payout =18mill hull

Can both be fit t2 or bling accordingly


Explain how inferior AssFrig costs 1/3 extra when it sucks in every way compared to cheaper T3D


Lol guys are you blind or ignorant or just bad at math?
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#37 - 2015-07-15 16:04:54 UTC
I'm glad there are now destroyers that are actually capable of performing their alleged role effectively. T1 and T2 destroyers are and always have been absolute trash, cruisers outperform them as anti-frigate platforms in almost every way and are much more survivable.

All the whine seems to amount to "oh no, the anti-frigate hull class is actually capable of killing frigates! Hurr power creep, durr muh faction war complex balance!"
Nalia White
Tencus
#38 - 2015-07-15 16:10:59 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I'm glad there are now destroyers that are actually capable of performing their alleged role effectively. T1 and T2 destroyers are and always have been absolute trash, cruisers outperform them as anti-frigate platforms in almost every way and are much more survivable.

All the whine seems to amount to "oh no, the anti-frigate hull class is actually capable of killing frigates! Hurr power creep, durr muh faction war complex balance!"


this. t1 destroyers were always a joke with their none existing fitting space (even t1 frigates can put in more low/med slots) and are slower than even some cruisers.

i agree though that the insurance for these ships should not be that high. i am against insurance all together anyway... what's the point really? an unnecessary isk faucet.

Syndicate - K5-JRD

Home to few, graveyard for many

My biggest achievement

Cellini Benvenuto
Ephemeral Syzygy
#39 - 2015-07-15 16:13:50 UTC
Neuntausend wrote:
T3 Cruisers are definitely somewhat powercreepy (this is a word now), but T3 Destroyers seem to be in a pretty good place. People love to fly them, since they are fast, versatile and reasonably affordable, but they are not overpowered by any means. Looking at the Killboards, they are flown a lot, but they die a lot too. They are weak to Neuts, Scrams and Webs and can be killed even by cheaper and better insured T1 Cruisers, provided the appropriate Rock-Paper-Scissors constellation of fittings.


As someone who's having fun flying the confessor: I quite agree, they are amazingly fun ships to fly. I can imagine they will get nerfed one day or another, but personally, I think they should be a template for all cruiser and below sized hulls. Eve becomes so much more interesting when the ship you are flying is actually a lot of fun instead of a lot of chore.
Fornost Fornostsen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2015-07-15 17:36:06 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
You cant compare prices like you are doing while ignoring the giant imbalancw of said prices lol.

And your 30/40 mill price difference almost goes to zero with insurance factored in....
For a ship better in every way.


Lol Seriously how did you learn to assert your opinions?
Youd make a terrible politions. ..
[/quote]

Fornost Fornostsen wrote:
Yes, is the double, but it's still only 30/40M of difference for a ship that is a lot better.

With T3D you can have a ship that floats like a ceptor and stings like a destroyer


Well... I said that even if you don't take into account the insurance that difference is trivial...
Obviously it means that if you take into account insurance it's even worse...

I try to make it simple: T3Ds are OP, they make AFs pointless and there isn't any serious difference in price to justify that.
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