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Jetcan mining
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Alexander DeGroot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-12-31 14:36:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexander DeGroot
for those that can't afford a hauling alt etc... how much do you let build up? 1hauls worth? curious

have a choice between to exp on my hulk 18k m3 and just hauling each time, or jet can mining, and using a MLU not sure what to do
Velicitia
XS Tech
#2 - 2011-12-31 14:44:45 UTC
if it's a SAFE system (i.e. effectively no one but you, maybe some corpies), jetcanning is OK.

personally, I'd just grab someone with an orca to be my jetcan, and split the loots later...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Alexander DeGroot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-12-31 14:46:00 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
if it's a SAFE system (i.e. effectively no one but you, maybe some corpies), jetcanning is OK.

personally, I'd just grab someone with an orca to be my jetcan, and split the loots later...


surely you would make less though? if you have a friend in orca and split 50 50?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-12-31 14:49:53 UTC
It has been a long time since I did any mining. When I jet canned I only had my can flipped twice. And only once did they do anything to the ore inside.

What I did eventually do was setup a couple of belts with GSC's. It was a bit of work initially to get it setup but then it wasn't too hard to use. I don't think it was horribly less efficient than jet canning and just made it feel far less stressful not having to worry about can flippers at all.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#5 - 2011-12-31 15:12:00 UTC
Alexander DeGroot wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
if it's a SAFE system (i.e. effectively no one but you, maybe some corpies), jetcanning is OK.

personally, I'd just grab someone with an orca to be my jetcan, and split the loots later...


surely you would make less though? if you have a friend in orca and split 50 50?


Assuming fully maxxed out pilots, with implants (no drones, because they DIAF too much).

Hulk alone -- approx 1700 m3 per minute (real numbers work to 1705)
Hulk + orca -- approx 2900 m3 per minute (real numbers work to 1899)

hulk + orca = approx 70% increase in yield.

After an hour of mining, a hulk alone would get you 102k m3 of ore. Hulk and orca 174000 m3 of ore (or 87k m3 per -- a measly 15% less m3 after splitting).

Assuming you're mining Veld (0.1 m3/unit) ... let's say it's 9 ISK/unit.
102k M3 = 1.02m = 9.18m ISK
174k m3 = 1.74m = 15.66 m ISK total (you each get 7.83m ISK).

And again, this is all assuming a 50/50 split. I have an orca alt that (if people ask) I don't mind throwing up for bonuses if I'm not doing something else with it, and just ask that people throw some of the ore towards the group as a "thank you" for the boosts.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Alexander DeGroot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-12-31 15:15:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexander DeGroot
Velicitia wrote:
Alexander DeGroot wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
if it's a SAFE system (i.e. effectively no one but you, maybe some corpies), jetcanning is OK.

personally, I'd just grab someone with an orca to be my jetcan, and split the loots later...


surely you would make less though? if you have a friend in orca and split 50 50?


Assuming fully maxxed out pilots, with implants (no drones, because they DIAF too much).

Hulk alone -- approx 1700 m3 per minute (real numbers work to 1705)
Hulk + orca -- approx 2900 m3 per minute (real numbers work to 1899)

hulk + orca = approx 70% increase in yield.

After an hour of mining, a hulk alone would get you 102k m3 of ore. Hulk and orca 174000 m3 of ore (or 87k m3 per -- a measly 15% less m3 after splitting).

Assuming you're mining Veld (0.1 m3/unit) ... let's say it's 9 ISK/unit.
102k M3 = 1.02m = 9.18m ISK
174k m3 = 1.74m = 15.66 m ISK total (you each get 7.83m ISK).

And again, this is all assuming a 50/50 split. I have an orca alt that (if people ask) I don't mind throwing up for bonuses if I'm not doing something else with it, and just ask that people throw some of the ore towards the group as a "thank you" for the boosts.



Measley? 15% is huge but thanks for the explination
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#7 - 2011-12-31 15:33:48 UTC
In 2 years of playing......really, it's just not a good idea to jetcan at all.

Although canflippers are ignorable( ignore them of course, and change belts), it's just a bother having the ore at risk.

Create a second account and train it to be a hauler and then an Orca pilot, and have them work as a symbiotic pair. You'll be glad you did.

You will be dumping into at least a T1 Industrial hauler rather quickly. And as soon as that second account starts training Mining Director and all that, you will see YOUR yield increasing, etc.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Velicitia
XS Tech
#8 - 2011-12-31 15:40:43 UTC
... so, the increase you get by using a Rorqual over an Orca must be mind-blowing (don't have real-world tests yet, but IIRC it's 25-30%). Smile

you also have to consider that we're talking about a difference of 15k m3 of ore in an hour (after splitting it). A single jetcan getting flipped means you may lose up to 27,500 m3 of ore.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Skorpynekomimi
#9 - 2011-12-31 15:44:57 UTC
If I was going to, I'd build up the size of the hold in my Mammoth. That's nearly a full jetcan.

That's akin to what I do while ice mining; I have a pair of GSCs set up, stick three blocks into one, three into the other, fill my hold, dock up, undock with a Wreathe, and empty both cans.

I'm contemplating doing it for ore mining as well.

Economic PVP
Alexander DeGroot
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-12-31 16:07:04 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
If I was going to, I'd build up the size of the hold in my Mammoth. That's nearly a full jetcan.

That's akin to what I do while ice mining; I have a pair of GSCs set up, stick three blocks into one, three into the other, fill my hold, dock up, undock with a Wreathe, and empty both cans.

I'm contemplating doing it for ore mining as well.


yeh my hulk has MLU and mammothcan hold 27k, but not sure how the container trick works?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#11 - 2011-12-31 16:13:51 UTC
if the "container trick" you're referring to is using GSCs to expand your cargohold, you do it like this.

1. fill cargohold with GSC (unpacked)
2. open each GSC (whilst it's in your cargohold)
3. fill GSC


presto! you just fit 3900 m3 worth of stuff in 3000 m3 of your cargohold.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#12 - 2011-12-31 16:28:02 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
if the "container trick" you're referring to is using GSCs to expand your cargohold, you do it like this.

1. fill cargohold with GSC (unpacked)
2. open each GSC (whilst it's in your cargohold)
3. fill GSC


presto! you just fit 3900 m3 worth of stuff in 3000 m3 of your cargohold.


Please note than when transferring PI product from a POCO into those GSC's in cargohold will cause a 7 second delay in loading material into it, as the GSC 'implodes'. Bear in mind when picking up Low Sec PI.

Also, organics and living things (Slaves, Scientists. etc) cannot go in the GSC's ('Organic material cannot survive the effects of Planck Compression').

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Skorpynekomimi
#13 - 2011-12-31 17:11:20 UTC
Alexander DeGroot wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
If I was going to, I'd build up the size of the hold in my Mammoth. That's nearly a full jetcan.

That's akin to what I do while ice mining; I have a pair of GSCs set up, stick three blocks into one, three into the other, fill my hold, dock up, undock with a Wreathe, and empty both cans.

I'm contemplating doing it for ore mining as well.


yeh my hulk has MLU and mammothcan hold 27k, but not sure how the container trick works?


Anchor the GSC in the belt, bookmark it. Warp to it, mine, transfer the ore into it. Go back and collect it later with an industrial.

Economic PVP
Droxlyn
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-12-31 19:23:54 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Anchor the GSC in the belt, bookmark it. Warp to it, mine, transfer the ore into it. Go back and collect it later with an industrial.


The only problem with this at end-game mining, one full cycle set from 3 strip 2s will fill more than one GSC in less than 3 minutes. A hulk can't fly fast enough between anchored GSC for its mining output. Orca+Hulk is the best 2-char combo vs jetcan flipping, hauling, and bonuses.

When you throw in two or more Hulks, you end up Jet can mining with the Orca using a tractor beam to pull them in.
Skorpynekomimi
#15 - 2011-12-31 21:06:17 UTC
Yes, but that's with more than one person. Using GSCs simply extends the time before warping to station, and breaks up the grind of mining lasers.
It's a strategy for a single character, and no hauler/orca alt.

By far the best method is four or five hulks, an orca hanging around to boost them, and one in the belt to drag ore to station.

Economic PVP
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#16 - 2011-12-31 22:37:00 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Yes, but that's with more than one person. Using GSCs simply extends the time before warping to station, and breaks up the grind of mining lasers.
It's a strategy for a single character, and no hauler/orca alt.


Yes, a Hauler/Orca alt is critical if serious about industry. In a few months it will pay for itself with PLEX if need be.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Zifrian
The Frog Pond
Ribbit.
#17 - 2011-12-31 22:54:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Zifrian
Jetcan mining has a few variables that make it hard to just state a number.

Like, how much can you haul? What is the m3 of the hauler you'll use to pick up the ore? What is your round trip time?

It might make more sense to put two cargo expanders and cargo rigs on the mining ship you have instead of jet canning it.

I'm working on including something like this in my mining tab I'm developing for EVE IPH.

Here is a screen of using a jetcan assuming 5 minute round trip time to the station: http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9375/minehauler.jpg This has 2 MLU's fit.

Here's one with the 18000m3 in a Hulk and going back and forth yourself. Assuming it would only take you 2 min 30 seconds (half the time) back to the station since you don't have to switch ships: http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/829/minehulkhaul.jpg This fit leaves off the MLU.

Looks like Jetcan mining isn't really worth it in high sec if you fit a hulk for max cargo.

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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#18 - 2011-12-31 23:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
I jetcan in w-space, as I'm not willing to risk my Orca or Rorqual. I fill my jetcans as full as I can haul in a single load.

In hisec I recommend using an Orca when mining ore with 2 accounts, because a Hulk produces a lot of m3 of ore. Before my alt could use an Orca, he used a Bestower to haul (largest low skill industrial).

When mining ice in hisec with 2 accounts, a second Hulk is better because of the long cycle times. You may lose 2 minutes on a 20 minute cycle dropping-off ice, so 10% time lost, but you gain 100% more ice.