Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Oh. My bad. Let me rephrase mining then for you and take all the other elements you mentioned into account:

How a Mining Fleet should be run:
i) FC picks a system from the myriad of choices in New Eden.
ii) FC analyses the asteroid belts found in that system to make sure the mineral breakdown will assist him / her (or it) to achieve maximum yield in precious or much sought after minerals, in addition to making sure the belts are far enough away from gates and close enough to stations or towers to help the fleet stay out of harms way or safe up if needed.
iii) FC then proceeds to monitor the system for a few days to make sure its not in the roaming plans for any known griefer or merc alliances (that the miners may or may not be at war with) and most importantly, that Code is not operating in the applicable (insert sec status here) system without attracting any attention to it, himself / herself or the planned op.
iv) FC moves his freighters into position.
v) FC proceeds to announce the OP via evemail, social media, mumble and forums a few days in advance so people can plan their lives accordingly and the FC can achieve a better than average turn out.
vi) FC also sets up a Calendar entry for the corp / alliance (or install alts in coalition alliances to mass spam as required because of the limitations of evemail mailing lists).
vii) Day of op arrives. FC logs in and starts a fleet with a proper advert to allow blues or friends to join.
viii) FC sets up the details of the fleet and the days targets in the fleet motd.
ix) FC proceeds to setup the booster ships in fleet, making sure each is fitted appropriately and that the ships in fleet are receiving boosts.
x) Fleet members start joining in their respective ships and make sure their teamspeak server isnt acting up.
xi) Fleet members warp to FC and start blapping rocks, while boozing up and congregating like they do, opting to:
xi-a) Jet cans as per fleet arrangements
xi-b) dump ore in a fleet hanger as per fleet arrangements
xi-c) dump the ore in secure containers that are emptied by freighters as per fleet arrangements
xi-d) ignore all sounds made by the ship or the rats floating around them from time to time.
xi-e) all broadcasts or warnings issues by the FC
xii) FC constantly monitors:
xii-a) local to ensure no undesirables jump into system.
xii-b) alts in the neighboring systems to make sure no danger is approaching
xiii-c) FC's watchlist of known alts of unsavory characters that may have undesirable outcomes on the op.
xiv) FC spots something he doesn't like and:
xiv-a) orders the fleet to dock up / safe up / logoffski
xiv-b) orders his logis to undock and warp on the fleet, which he then proceeds to micromanage then at arms length because lets face it, miners dont use logis for pvp amirite?.
xiv-c) orders his falcon alts to undock and warp on the fleet, because lets face it, miners dont use logi.
xiv-d) orders the fleet to deploy combat drones and hold onto their panties because no logi or e-war alts are on hand.
xiv-e) Fleet warps everybody who's paying attention out of harms way for a brief interlude.
xv) FC achieves goal of (insert target of ore / deaths / kills / hours spent in front of computer here) and calls it a night.
xvi) FC carves out the isk / takes / cuts for all participants, pays em and logs.


But I digress, we wouldn't expect a special snowflake who doesn't mine.. to know anything about all of that (nor how to change it) now would we? We also don't care to convince YOU of anything... because the nature of this forum is for you to convince US. And as far as I can see, the miners (that bother to read the forums) are unmoved by your hearty discussion, nor your subjective perception of what mining should be that we just can't envision. Your severe lack of likes on your opening post(s) just proves my point. Ditto for the first respondent.

Mocking mining by relating to PvP, as funny as it is, doesn't add depth to pvp mate, nor any substance to your shallow arguments by use of gross over simplified expressions to try and make a floating point about a system you don't participate in.

Play eve long enough and you'll realize that PvE, PvP or PvEvP... is all the same shallow, pointless waste of paid up time, for the sake of enjoyment and changing asteroid names or how scanners work, wont change that.

In fact, if I had to compare this revised list of activities in a mining fleet to your 2 paragraphs of what PvP fleets are, with logi, e-war and FC decisions and all that.... it seems mining has more content and choices to be made. But we wouldn't want facts to subtract from a perfectly good whine in F&I now do we? So please, do continue.

So I want to get this first response in before my on topic post. With regards to my last post about non-PVPers making PVP recommendations, I wasn't saying it's not possible I am saying I do not have the frame of reference to even remotely assume that my idea is decent.

In my RL profession I work with multiple engineering disciplines, and while I can keep up with general discussions, I leave the true decision making and client recommendations to the people that are educated in that area. Maybe you should try the same.

And my problem is your ideas are still....boring.

Here is a question, can mining be exciting? I'm starting to think the answer is, "No," and as a result making mining better may not be possible.

And yes, I read your proposal. Twice in fact.

and what others are telling you , just like the changes for fleet warps(proposed if not already here) the FC of such fleets will simply take up those new responsibilities.....because it is the FC knowing what is needed to be done. You are not enabling more positions for more people.

More miners/indy it seems are speaking up, more against your ideas than for them.
I did not want to spell it out for you but someone already has, in fact two have in different ways of the process for running mining fleets. It takes much more planning and work involved as an FC than you realize, as much so as a Combat fleet requires. Your ideas need a lot more refinement because right now they are just horrible.

Better Solution: Mining Fleets in Low Sec / Null Sec / Wormholes. You know, places where things actually happen and rats aren't like flies that you can kill with a newspaper. They are more like flies you need a baseball bat to kill. (a cricket bat works too).

Like in wormholes. Fly few big ships to belt. Shoot rats... Fly bait procurers to belt. Mine ore while waiting for things to shoot. Some times you get juicy aster kills and other times you get killed by cruiser blob. Oh and there is not rats after the initial few.

edit: belts in wormholes are actually anomalies.

True. At some point you just can't handle everything. Of course in this case scouting and calling the targets is quite good set of tasks.

Personally I have been thinking this idea of dividing tasks and responsibility in real life jobs to make it easier to have variable length work weeks (1-4 days preferable). Basically same issue here. We want to divide job to multiple actors, but we need to solve communications problem. And possible some other problems.

My thesis is that if those problems are solved dividing the work is actually more efficient than doing it on single actor.

You misunderstand my target audience. I am not trying to sell these changes as being good for existing miners. I expect most existing miners to think these changes are terrible for them. On the whole, this is a nerf to mining that I am proposing: worse survey scanner, inefficiency in mining yields, and runaway asteroids. About the only buffs I am proposing would be the possibility of better ores being found in belts than before and the possibility of adding new rare minerals.

I don't really care for the number of likes OP is getting. It's not like people vote ideas into the game. What matters is whether or not my ideas would be an improvement on the whole for the game.

As such, the target audience for this set of changes is that group of people who are interested in the idea of mining but turned off by the monotonous game play. I want to expand the pool of people involved in mining to include more than just the current mining population.



Actually, that list and an actual list of PvP FC decisions has many overlaps and equivalent points. However, the part that is actually relevant to the discussion - the pew pew of space rocks as opposed to the pew pew of space ships - is mostly about where you dump your ore while you get drunk. That is the part that this proposal would be trying to change.

Besides which, this whole comparison is a side discussion and largely irrelevant to whether or not my ideas are of worth.



Hmm. Good point. To make this more workable, it seems that there would need to be some amount of randomness to the output of any given cycle of mining lasers, else people would just use their mining lasers as improvised survey scanners.

This shouldn't add to the work the FC has to do. This should add to the effort required by the individual fleet members. They should be the ones needing to make judgement calls about how they conduct themselves on grid.



Most fleets I've been in, the scout has been a separate player so the FC can focus on cat herding. It's not efficiency that's lost when you split tasks, it's risk that is added - you have to trust the player giving you the information to do his job correctly and make good judgements. Trust is in short supply in Eve.

Bumped ships and such in Eve stop without visible need to maneuver, so Eve space works as more of a fluid than as a real vacuum. Otherwise, endless thrust would eventually cause even the slowest ship to reach near-luminal speeds.