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Hybrid turrets cap usage. Rework proposal

Author
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#1 - 2011-12-30 19:03:40 UTC
Hello everyone, this is my first go on this forum, so be nice :)

I've been thinking about the hybrid turrets, and the way they use cap for shooting.
Afaik, the theory behind the hybrids is that they are a sort of middle ground between the winmatar non-cap guns, and the cap-hungry lazors. Now with the 5 sec reload time, it seems to be even more balanced as far as being a middle thing goes.

So, this is my suggestion to how we could make them even more half winmatar / half amarr.
The way railguns fire their projectiles in reality is by charging up huge capacitors, and then realease such a hell of electrical current, that the railgun itself tends to break from the power the projectile has when fired.

The guns in themselves have their own capacitors that takes a lot of time to charge up, so I have a bit of a hard time seeing why railguns in EVE even have a reloadtime, other that having to add another projectile into the barrel which doesnt take long. This is because there is no cap recharge time involved, since the cap is taken from the ships "main cap" so to speak.

What if the guns had another attribute, namely "Capacitor charge level" and " Capacitor recharge rate". This would change the way hybrid guns fire in the way that when they are activated, no cap is drawn directly from the ships main capacitor instantly, but the main regeneration of the capacitor is lowered, so that is the ship is being neuted, or are otherwise out of cap, the guns will not stop shooting all together, but will only draw the little capacitor that the main capacitor manages to generate. The guns will not be able to fire before the guns internal capacitor is fully charged, so if under heavy neuting, a pair of small hybrid guns could have a RoF of 5-20 seconds, depending on neut-cycling and base cap recharge.

Before everyone starts crying because this may seem like a really huge boost to blasters again, by being able to fire constantly as the autocannons can, think about this. A battleship with railguns, using cap hungry ammo keeping his guns activated at all times while being neuted. The railguns in themselves are hard enough on the cap to keep it more or less at 0 at all times, which will make it impossible to use tackling mods of any sort because you keep feeding all the cap to your guns. So this is just as much a drawback in certain situations as it is a buff in others.


So that is that. Hope you have some constructive comments to share! Fly safe, and may you never fall short of cap :)

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Jask Avan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-12-30 22:54:00 UTC
With this you couldn't have anything using cap other than guns. Butchers active tanking (Even more) and shield tanking as well as tackle. Cap warfare becomes super powerful.
Metal Icarus
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#3 - 2011-12-30 22:59:04 UTC
Why have capacitors on each gun when u can just wire it to the ships capacitor. All those engineers who worked hard on simplifing the ships capacitor harnesses are rolling in their virtual graves.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#4 - 2011-12-30 23:19:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hannott Thanos
Maybe I didn't explain this properly enough. I'll do my best with this post.

With my skills, one Heavy Electron Blaster II on my Brutix, requires 1.96 GJ to fire. The current Rate of Fire is 2.16 seconds.
1,96 cap / 2,16 seconds is 0,9 cap pr sec. Lets say cap is added to a guns capacitor every half second, and if there is no cap availible, no cap is added to the gun, and thus it will take longer before the gun is charged and ready to fire. The guns will use no more and no less cap that in already does, but it will still be bossible to shoot (only at a slower rate) while neutralized. This should not gimp active tanking or shield tanking, because if you are out of cap you can choose to stop shooting and stop the cap drainage of the turrets. Also, if you are at this low amount of cap, how in Eden are you going to be able to use reppers or boosters in any case? It is more or less just a method of not having to spam the F1 button when extremely low on cap, and to add a bit of realism (I know, eve is not about that, but still....)

@ Metal Icarus
(Again, eve is not about realism) but the way I see it, if the capacitor is hardwired to the guns, there is no reason why you could not just put a shitload of projectiles in a tube behind the railgun and spew out a million projectiles pr sec, because you practically have nothing that has to eject from the gun when you shoot a projectile like you have to eject a cartridge which generates reduced rate of fire. Just line up the projectiles and let all hell loose. As much as I would love that to happen, it is kind of OP.

Edit: A good reason for caps on each gun, is that it can not be neuted out of the gun, so if the gun gets cap it cant be reduced by neuting. I think it would balance nicely between the no-cap autocannons and lazers

Edit 2: Also, if the guns are grouped (7 on brutix), the total cap requred to fire will be 13,79 GJ, and the guns can not fire before 13,79 GJ cap is reached.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Goose99
#5 - 2011-12-30 23:31:46 UTC
Give charge time = dmg. For a rack of large rails that has 800 dps, charging it for one minute to produce a volley of 48k.Cool
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#6 - 2011-12-30 23:38:21 UTC
Naw, wouldn't work like that unfortunately. Can't charge the capacitor beyond it's max capacity, and it would rip the gun apart if you could

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Goose99
#7 - 2011-12-30 23:41:13 UTC
Hannott Thanos wrote:
Naw, wouldn't work like that unfortunately. Can't charge the capacitor beyond it's max capacity, and it would rip the gun apart if you could


Psh, I would fit one time use guns for that purpose. Do or die. Gallante fix.Lol
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#8 - 2011-12-31 11:02:09 UTC
I had suggested that they vastly increase the clip size on the hybrids to somewhere around 50-200 so that they don't have to reload over time. Just something to make them unique.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#9 - 2011-12-31 11:25:42 UTC
Guns in Eve are supposed to do instant damage. Now, if this was pre-release or another game, I would be behind it. A lot of balancing would have to go around it. Projectiles would have to take time to reach a target like missiles. Lasers would be the only true instant strike weapon. That just isn't how Eve works though. For the sake of simplicity, it is not very realistic.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#10 - 2011-12-31 15:29:48 UTC
Obsidiana wrote:
Guns in Eve are supposed to do instant damage. Now, if this was pre-release or another game, I would be behind it. A lot of balancing would have to go around it. Projectiles would have to take time to reach a target like missiles. Lasers would be the only true instant strike weapon. That just isn't how Eve works though. For the sake of simplicity, it is not very realistic.


What do you mean? The guns would still do instant damage as soon as they are able to fire. Its just the capacitor that has to be charged up first.

It seem this is being overcomplicated a bit. Practically its a systems that allows hybrid guns to be permanently activated, just like minmatar guns, only they have a variable rate of fire when extremely low on cap

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#11 - 2012-01-01 19:53:30 UTC
My understanding of the idea is something like this:

Click button... wait for charge... fire

That is delayed damage; you have to wait. With sufficient enemy alpha, you could die without getting off a shot even if you hit fire first. In lag situations this would be... bad. It would further weaken hybrids from an alpha strike perspective, an area in which they are already weak.

Practically speaking, we could argue that the first volley is charged automatically and the cycle time includes the charging time for the next round. That would be the way I would do it.
Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#12 - 2012-01-01 20:21:42 UTC
Yep, thats pretty much what I was thinking. There is no need for the guns not to be pre-charged. First volley would ofc be instant. The cycle would be the representation of the gun charging up for the next shot, rather than cooling down from the previous one

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}

tankus2
HeartVenom Inc.
#13 - 2012-01-02 03:06:02 UTC
isn't that what hybrids already do basically?

Where the science gets done

Hannott Thanos
Squadron 15
#14 - 2012-01-02 19:45:17 UTC
I kind of didn't write a wall of text, proposing to tear the hybrid firing mechanism apart, only to put it back together again just the way it is.

while (CurrentSelectedTarget.Status == ShipStatus.Alive) {

     _myShip.FireAllGuns(CurrentSelectedTarget);

}