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Crime & Punishment

 
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Exploit or Brilliant

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Hal Heluene
Modern Mining Co.
#1 - 2015-07-11 22:40:35 UTC
First of all, let me say, I heard about this second hand. I think it was brilliant in the way the pulled it off, but can't help feel its an exploit. They no longer allow peeps to pull out of an orca once criminal, and they can't warp, once they undock in a new ship, but seems if a bowhead drops ships, they can just reship that way. As I understand the way it happened::

Freighter jumps gate, CODE (alt, who else), starts by bumping the freighter. Then comes in 2 bombers and a bowhead. They start killing freighter. Of course no way 2 can do the job. After they die, they get another alt to hit something to call away CONCORD. Then the bowhead drops 2 more bombers, and they jump into them and continue. This goes on for about 20 minutes and 25 bombers until they finally get the freighter with 3 bulkheads and nothing in hold.

https://zkillboard.com/system/30001381/

https://zkillboard.com/kill/47788759/

So, I ask, Brilliant? or exploit?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#2 - 2015-07-12 03:29:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
It's called hyperdunking, it is officially considered to be creative gameplay, not an exploit.

CCP Falcon wrote:
Since the introduction of the Bowhead freighter, we’ve become aware of a tactic that has been introduced which has become known as “Hyperdunking”. This involves leaving a grid where a criminal action occurs to draw away CONCORD and reshipping to continue shooting at a target. There’s been much discussion among members of the community regarding this tactic, and whether or not it is considered legitimate gameplay.

After meeting with members of the game design and customer support teams and discussing this in depth, we have come to the consensus that due to the fact no rules are being broken and any ship that is involved in a criminal act is being destroyed by CONCORD as intended, that this tactic is simply an unintended but legitimate use of new game mechanics, and is not in breach of the rules. Tactics similar to this have been used with previous hulls before the Bowhead was introduced, and have been considered perfectly legitimate in the past.

With this in mind, at this time we do not consider this tactic to be in breach of the game rules, and as such our customer support team will not be offering reimbursements for hulls lost in this manner.

Players are also reminded that if someone is criminally flagged, they are fair game to be attacked in self-defense. Feel free to use this to your advantage.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-07-12 04:53:20 UTC
So, yes, it is absolutely brilliant.

The New Order, bringing New Eden fresh content... DAILY.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.
Vivien Meally
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-07-12 11:12:34 UTC
Just for me it is a exploit, because you avoid concord.

But CCP says its legal, because CCP dont know how to fix it.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#5 - 2015-07-12 11:20:42 UTC
Don't you know OP? Any mechanic that can be used to do PVP in highsec is an exploit that needs to be "fixed".

But no, it's not an exploit because you don't actually avoid CONCORD in any way. There's nothing in the games rules that prohibits people from being able to shoot at you or operate a spaceship while criminal flagged.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#6 - 2015-07-12 11:21:11 UTC
Vivien Meally wrote:
Just for me it is a exploit, because you avoid concord.

But CCP says its legal, because CCP dont know how to fix it.

But they don't avoid CONCORD. Otherwise they would not need so many destroyers.

Evil RatKid
Vivien Meally
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-07-12 11:24:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Vivien Meally
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Vivien Meally wrote:
Just for me it is a exploit, because you avoid concord.

But CCP says its legal, because CCP dont know how to fix it.

But they don't avoid CONCORD. Otherwise they would not need so many destroyers.


I dont see any destroyers in this Killmail, only some Bombers.

And i hope Peoples, you can kill more Miners, mission Runners, haulser etc in hisec. Make this game more "attractive" http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#8 - 2015-07-12 11:30:49 UTC
Vivien Meally wrote:
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Vivien Meally wrote:
Just for me it is a exploit, because you avoid concord.

But CCP says its legal, because CCP dont know how to fix it.

But they don't avoid CONCORD. Otherwise they would not need so many destroyers.


I dont see any destroyers in this Killmail, only some Bombers.

Oh you are right, they probably used bombers because this was in 0.9, because of the alpha

Vivien Meally wrote:
And i hope Peoples, you can kill more Miners, mission Runners, haulser etc in hisec. Make this game more "attractive" http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

We will, we are worried about the player decline as well and try to kill as many newbros as we can to stop them from leaving the game out of boredom.

Evil RatKid
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#9 - 2015-07-12 12:12:56 UTC
It's 2015 and people still maintain that people exploding in highsec (something that has been happening consistently since highsec has existed) is in some way killing the game or hurting player retention or something, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Vivien Meally
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-07-12 12:39:42 UTC
Its ok to gang some Peoples in HiSec. And hisec gangs were always there.
But not on the scale that we have its now.
Since a couple of patches is hisec ganking has become much easier as before. Thx to Tornado, catalyst etc ...
Earlier peoples have gank with Tempest. And now with Catalyst or Tornado.
lmmortalist
lmmortality Associates
#11 - 2015-07-12 12:57:53 UTC
25 bombers for a single obelisk. Seriously what the hell?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#12 - 2015-07-12 13:14:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Vivien Meally wrote:
Just for me it is a exploit, because you avoid concord.
Every ship that someone with a GCC timer boards is exploded in short order, by Concord. The ships they board can't warp as per the fix to counter the boomerang exploit, so how are they avoiding Concord?

Avoiding Concord is an exploit, if you suspect someone is doing so report them to CCP; it is not what is happening during a hyperdunk.

Quote:
But CCP says its legal, because CCP dont know how to fix it.
CCP could fix it very simply if it was actually broken, by preventing people from boarding a ship while under a GCC timer; however, they don't see it as broken so they see no need to do so.

Quote:
Its ok to gang some Peoples in HiSec. And hisec gangs were always there. But not on the scale that we have its now.
Hisec ganking is incredibly easy to avoid, hyperbumping even more so; ask Red Frog or PushX, two of the biggest players in the hisec hauling game, who manage to deliver >99% of their courier contracts despite the efforts of gankers. On a per capita basis it is extremely rare.

Quote:
Since a couple of patches is hisec ganking has become much easier as before. Thx to Tornado, catalyst etc ...
Earlier peoples have gank with Tempest. And now with Catalyst or Tornado.
Would you rather go back to the days of being ganked by people using fully insured battleships?
If ganking is so much easier than it has been in the past, why are so few doing it?
Why are there only a very small number of dedicated groups that are able to raise the necessary numbers and funds to carry out hisec ganks?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-07-12 13:37:18 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Vivien Meally wrote:
Just for me it is a exploit, because you avoid concord.
Every ship that someone with a GCC timer boards is exploded in short order, by Concord. The ships they board can't warp as per the fix to counter the boomerang exploit, so how are they avoiding Concord?

Avoiding Concord is an exploit, if you suspect someone is doing so report them to CCP; it is not what is happening during a hyperdunk.

Quote:
But CCP says its legal, because CCP dont know how to fix it.
CCP could fix it very simply if it was actually broken, by preventing people from boarding a ship while under a GCC timer; however, they don't see it as broken so they see no need to do so.

Quote:
Its ok to gang some Peoples in HiSec. And hisec gangs were always there. But not on the scale that we have its now.
Hisec ganking is incredibly easy to avoid, hyperbumping even more so; ask Red Frog or PushX, two of the biggest players in the hisec hauling game, who manage to deliver >99% of their courier contracts despite the efforts of gankers. On a per capita basis it is extremely rare.

Quote:
Since a couple of patches is hisec ganking has become much easier as before. Thx to Tornado, catalyst etc ...
Earlier peoples have gank with Tempest. And now with Catalyst or Tornado.
Would you rather go back to the days of being ganked by people using fully insured battleships?
If ganking is so much easier than it has been in the past, why are so few doing it?
Why are there only a very small number of dedicated groups that are able to raise the necessary numbers and funds to carry out hisec ganks?


I like you, Jonah.

To answer your question - Why are there only a very small number of dedicated groups that are able to raise the necessary numbers and funds to carry out hisec ganks? - Because elite PvP.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.
Vivien Meally
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2015-07-12 13:51:24 UTC
Elite PVP ... LOL ... HiSec ganking ... lol elite pvp.
Hisec ganking is Pussy pvp
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#15 - 2015-07-12 14:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Vivien Meally wrote:
Elite PVP ... LOL ... HiSec ganking ... lol elite pvp.
Hisec ganking is Pussy pvp
You're better than some in that you recognise that it is PvP.

While you may consider it to be pussy PvP it's probably the most effective method of affecting the operations of those who use NPC corp alts for money making activities in support of their operations elsewhere. Hence there's plenty of nullsec players who hook up with organised and politically impartial groups like CODE. to gank, often in support of their own operations elsewhere.

Are they also pussy PvPer's, or are they using the freedoms inherent in the sandbox to achieve their aims in an efficient and amusing manner?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#16 - 2015-07-12 15:36:58 UTC
Vivien Meally wrote:
Pussy pvp


Vivien Meally:

Kills 254
Solo Kills 0

Seems you know much about this category of PvP.
Vivien Meally
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-07-12 15:53:30 UTC
ISD Supogo
ISD BH
ISD Alliance
#18 - 2015-07-12 20:01:47 UTC
Topic locked, the original thread was linked in the first reply.

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