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EvE online numbers
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Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#41 - 2015-07-08 21:46:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Umar Umarhabib
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
Umar Umarhabib wrote:


Eve is my favorite game, so I am quite concerned about this as well.

There are a few new games on the Market: Elite Dangerous, and Star Citizen. Both look pretty interesting. Star Citizen is gonna have a first person view mode, and first person shooter mode.

I think Eve Online has to evolve in order to maintain competitive. A few years ago, I think CCP was doing the right thing when they decided to implement Walk-In-Station, along with some Walk-In-Station games. Perhaps they were ultimately planning to tie it with some kind of first person shooter / third person shooter game. So I think they had a long-term plan to keep the game competitive by evolving the game.

However, the short-sighted players started complaining. Because around that time, there was also a controversial conversation that leaked between internal employees about milking the player base. So that kind of added fuel to the fire, and CCP had to halt the development of Walk-In-Station. But if you think about it, as a business operating for a profit it makes sense to try and maximize income.

I think the players can be too short sighted, and sometimes it's hard to decide whether to listen to the players, or continue with your development plans without listening to the players. Because most of the players only care about how they experience the game right now, without considering 3 years down the road. While CCP has to consider about 3 years down the road, and the new competition that will come out. They probably already know in advance about the new space MMO's that are in development, before most of the players.

Anyways, there are lots of games operating successfully with both subscription + microtransaction model. An example would be WoW, no matter how much you hate that game. If CCP was raking in with the kind of cash like WoW, they can keep the game more competitive too.

So I think Eve would be in a much better state today, if CCP had went ahead with developing Walk-In-Station instead of listening to the short sighted players.

Because developing new content costs a lot of money. If they start on a downward spiral - they have to pull a rabbit out of their hat to reverse the downtrend. Less subscribers also mean less money available to develop new content.


Yeah, I think the community supported WiS. Unfortunately, it's timing coincided with the "gold ammo" controversy and both issues became amalgamated. Very unfortunate. I remember seeing a trailer showing a physical player performing a hit on another player within a station. Ah, those were the days when EVE's future was looking so bright!


Yep, to all the players who complained about Walk In Station a few years ago. If you are wondering why Eve's population is decreasing - you are the main reason.

The micro transactions could have given CCP more capital for content development. And it was optional to the player, not a requirement. So if you think it's a rip off, just don't buy it. But because of the outcry, they had to give up the development of micro transactions

Basically, the short-sighted crybabies had a huge impact on where the game is today.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#42 - 2015-07-09 06:13:05 UTC
I don't really think a declining userbase is that big of a deal.

We're still dealing with multiple thousands.

You can still always find what you're looking for, whatever that may be.

Now if there were like, 800 people left, then I'd be all like, OK your concern is valid.

So we're on a decline, we can still enjoy the ride. And maybe with our continuing to enjoy ourselves, it will entice those who've left to come back, and those looking to try to do so.
Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#43 - 2015-07-11 16:03:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Umar Umarhabib
Divine Entervention wrote:
I don't really think a declining userbase is that big of a deal.

We're still dealing with multiple thousands.

You can still always find what you're looking for, whatever that may be.

Now if there were like, 800 people left, then I'd be all like, OK your concern is valid.

So we're on a decline, we can still enjoy the ride. And maybe with our continuing to enjoy ourselves, it will entice those who've left to come back, and those looking to try to do so.


But Eve has the potential to live much longer. I think they need to start developing new content again to keep up with competition. What happened a few years ago was a major setback.

CCP Please continue developing Walk In Station! And perhaps microtransactions too. A lot of games are doing microtransaction these days.

Being able to explore your own ship in 3rd person view would be great too, or having the OPTION of flying your ship with full controls (like Star Conflict or Elite Dangerous). But I guess these are more challenging to implement.
Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#44 - 2015-07-11 16:08:59 UTC
Oh hey.

Another "Eve is dying" thread. With as often as people post this on the forums, the game can NEVER die.

BBL; killing **** in game.

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#45 - 2015-07-11 16:19:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Umar Umarhabib
Freya Sertan wrote:


With as often as people post this on the forums, the game can NEVER die.



That's delusional thinking. Everything can end. Just like how Blackberry can go from the World's #1 Smartphone maker to almost bankrupt, and Apple can go from almost bankrupt to the largest company. It depends on what they do.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#46 - 2015-07-11 16:27:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Umar Umarhabib wrote:
CCP Please continue developing Walk In Station!
If it adds meaningful gameplay and the development of it doesn't relegate fixing the base game to the backburner again then most people won't have a problem with it. The problem with Incarna was that it didn't add any gameplay, and it did relegate the fixing of broken stuff to the backburner for a lengthy period of time.

Quote:
And perhaps microtransactions too. A lot of games are doing microtransaction these days.
CCP are still developing microtransactions for vanity items which is fine; microtransactions that offer an advantage or magic up items that are normally produced by players are not, and have no place in a subscription based game such as Eve.

Quote:
Being able to explore your own ship in 3rd person view would be great too
You're in a pod, commanding a ship; with that in mind how would this be inline with the lore of the game?

Quote:
or having the OPTION of flying your ship with full controls (like Star Conflict or Elite Dangerous). But I guess these are more challenging to implement.
In Eve you're the equivalent of Captain Kirk, not Luke Skywalker.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#47 - 2015-07-11 16:28:22 UTC
Umar Umarhabib wrote:
Freya Sertan wrote:
Oh hey.

the game can NEVER die.



That's delusional thinking. Everything can end. Just like how Blackberry can go from the World's #1 Smartphone maker to almost bankrupt, and Apple can go from almost bankrupt to the largest company. It depends on what they do.


WOW. Context is everything, bro. You need to learn to forum... especially when my post was right above yours.

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#48 - 2015-07-11 16:32:03 UTC
Sorry what I meant to say is, it would be delusional to think "this game can never die".

I'm not saying you're delusional. Edited.
Freya Sertan
Doomheim
#49 - 2015-07-11 16:41:47 UTC
Umar Umarhabib wrote:
Sorry what I meant to say is, it would be delusional to think "this game can never die".

I'm not saying you're delusional. Edited.


It's quite delusional to think that's what my post boiled down to.

New Eden isn't nice. It isn't friendly. It isn't very hospitiable. Good thing there are people here to shoot in the face.

Want to make New Eden a nice place? Try this out.
Niriel Greez
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2015-07-11 16:47:29 UTC
Delt0r Garsk wrote:
Its called summer. People, even people that play eve go outside.

Our offices would normally have 30 people here, today it is 3. No our company is not dying. They are on holiday. Like the entire northern hemisphere is basically on holiday right now.


I guess looking at Tranquility average population graphs is too hard.

Yes, summer has a negative effect on any MMO's population. No. decreasing averages since ~2013 aren't because 'summer'.
Umar Umarhabib
Doomheim
#51 - 2015-07-11 16:49:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Umar Umarhabib
Freya Sertan wrote:
Umar Umarhabib wrote:
Sorry what I meant to say is, it would be delusional to think "this game can never die".

I'm not saying you're delusional. Edited.


It's quite delusional to think that's what my post boiled down to.


After looking it over again, I don't think I've misunderstood your post. You're saying "eve is dying" gets posted a lot, and "eve can never die" gets posted a lot.

Unless you're trying to make something that's simple sound like it's complicated, that's what it says.

What I'm saying is, it would be delusional to think "Eve can never die".
0bama Barack Hussein
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2015-07-11 16:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: 0bama Barack Hussein
Klas Kanjus wrote:
I wonder what the "EvE is dead" experts are going to say when log ins spike next week?


Every game out there has spikes when new content is released, for EvE as a subscription based game more relevant is how long that spike will last.

I have fears that many players will get in few weeks/months tired of constant griefing of timers, and grinding timers back in new sov system...
Orlacc
#53 - 2015-07-11 21:54:25 UTC
Captain Semper wrote:
Hello everyone,
I want to ask the CCP to share with us some interesting statistics.
We all see that number of players going down and reason of this not a point of this thread. Of course we are all worried about our favorite game.
So.
How many active subscribers has EVE?
What is the average number of unique players per day (if 1 man have 3 accounts this doesnt mean that it is 3 unique players)? We do not need the exact figures. It can be something like "each player have 1.3 accounts" and etc.

Can you show us a bit of trust and share this statistics?
I believe that Eve did not die at all. But the other is no such certainty. Let's give it to them Cool



I see this stuff on a lot of game boards. Is it because you have a fiduciary interest in the company? Is it that you are afraid you are not playing the most popular game? Or you are just flat-out entitled to everything you want?

"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
Kuronaga
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
The Chicken Coop
#54 - 2015-07-11 22:27:08 UTC
Numbers are going down because CCP refuses to do anything really new with the game.

They stopped Dust integration and the support for it is a skeleton crew. Valkyrie might as well be a stand alone single player game, because that's going to be the number of players with a rift.

Ambulation had its legs cut off. EVA was stillborn. Player owned deadspace pockets was Hilmar pretty much just making stuff up as he went along.


I kept playing the game because cool things like this were coming, and were easy to get hyped up for. Now it's a game that I've literally done everything in. So why do I care if CCP constantly re-balances my least favorite part of it and calls it content? It's very easy to go inactive in EVE right now and feel no desire at all to resub. Not difficult to see why other people quit too.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2015-07-11 22:34:18 UTC
Umar Umarhabib wrote:
Kaivar Lancer wrote:
Umar Umarhabib wrote:


Eve is my favorite game, so I am quite concerned about this as well.

There are a few new games on the Market: Elite Dangerous, and Star Citizen. Both look pretty interesting. Star Citizen is gonna have a first person view mode, and first person shooter mode.

I think Eve Online has to evolve in order to maintain competitive. A few years ago, I think CCP was doing the right thing when they decided to implement Walk-In-Station, along with some Walk-In-Station games. Perhaps they were ultimately planning to tie it with some kind of first person shooter / third person shooter game. So I think they had a long-term plan to keep the game competitive by evolving the game.

However, the short-sighted players started complaining. Because around that time, there was also a controversial conversation that leaked between internal employees about milking the player base. So that kind of added fuel to the fire, and CCP had to halt the development of Walk-In-Station. But if you think about it, as a business operating for a profit it makes sense to try and maximize income.

I think the players can be too short sighted, and sometimes it's hard to decide whether to listen to the players, or continue with your development plans without listening to the players. Because most of the players only care about how they experience the game right now, without considering 3 years down the road. While CCP has to consider about 3 years down the road, and the new competition that will come out. They probably already know in advance about the new space MMO's that are in development, before most of the players.

Anyways, there are lots of games operating successfully with both subscription + microtransaction model. An example would be WoW, no matter how much you hate that game. If CCP was raking in with the kind of cash like WoW, they can keep the game more competitive too.

So I think Eve would be in a much better state today, if CCP had went ahead with developing Walk-In-Station instead of listening to the short sighted players.

Because developing new content costs a lot of money. If they start on a downward spiral - they have to pull a rabbit out of their hat to reverse the downtrend. Less subscribers also mean less money available to develop new content.


Yeah, I think the community supported WiS. Unfortunately, it's timing coincided with the "gold ammo" controversy and both issues became amalgamated. Very unfortunate. I remember seeing a trailer showing a physical player performing a hit on another player within a station. Ah, those were the days when EVE's future was looking so bright!


Yep, to all the players who complained about Walk In Station a few years ago. If you are wondering why Eve's population is decreasing - you are the main reason.

The micro transactions could have given CCP more capital for content development. And it was optional to the player, not a requirement. So if you think it's a rip off, just don't buy it. But because of the outcry, they had to give up the development of micro transactions

Basically, the short-sighted crybabies had a huge impact on where the game is today.


Correction number 1: CCP told players that there would be a focus on WIS and other CCP products for 18 months with no/little focus on internet spaceships.

Correction number 1: CCP then made big vague WIS promises and then delivered a graphics card chewing solo player room with no gameplay content at all.

Correction number 3: When CCP got called out for having a greedy microtransaction for vanity scheme, the CEO's internal response "was screw those players we don't need them" coupled with "gold ammo for gold subscribers".

Correction number 4: Subscriptions in mid 2011 fell heavily prompting the removal of the QEO, we know that online numbers lifted steadily until 2013. Many would suggest that the 2011 customer events saved Eve Online and CCP from going bust in the first quarter 2012.
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#56 - 2015-07-11 23:14:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Webvan
Umar Umarhabib wrote:


But Eve has the potential to live much longer. I think they need to start developing new content again to keep up with competition. What happened a few years ago was a major setback.

CCP Please continue developing Walk In Station! And perhaps microtransactions too. A lot of games are doing microtransaction these days.

Being able to explore your own ship in 3rd person view would be great too, or having the OPTION of flying your ship with full controls (like Star Conflict or Elite Dangerous). But I guess these are more challenging to implement.


Rlly? this thread so needed a bump, eh?

Wat!?! No stuff to micro-transaction? There is stuff there to buy, but I guess that defeats the purpose of 'complainings' and blaming others from the depths of your imaginations.... you big spender you in your default clothing. Or are you talking about all that p2w fail micro-tranny in most every other game now? Yeeeah, I don't play those games, and I think if CCP switched to that EVE would be dying. So put your rl money where your mouth is and buy something...

Who ever says "EVE can never die"?? that's a new one.... There is "EVE FOREVER" but ti's not that and more of a marketing thing. The only two thing EVE has to fear is 1. someone makes another hard-core mmo with a sub model and no f2p crud, just traditional first gen type challenging mmo. The second thing EVE has to fear? CCP




Anyhoot, I agree, not only summer, but pre-SOV changes. This is very likely a nullsec issue not needing to be online 23/7 right now. Also, I've heard it mentioned before, though have been unable to find CCP documentation of it as of yet, but that W-Space does not count into current online numbers. No idea if that is true, I'm not a scary wormhole person, but if it were that would explain something with increased popularity-usage with WH's lately.

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#57 - 2015-07-12 01:24:20 UTC
This thread reminds me of when I lost my job. Everyone had numerous stories of how there was no way the company would be sold because bla, bla, bla...then BOOM, we came to work one day and it was a done deal...The End...
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#58 - 2015-07-12 01:25:54 UTC
BrundleMeth wrote:
This thread reminds me of when I lost my job. Everyone had numerous stories of how there was no way the company would be sold because bla, bla, bla...then BOOM, we came to work one day and it was a done deal...The End...


After watching The Fly last night, I finally get the reference in your name. Now I can't stop laughing.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#59 - 2015-07-12 04:55:04 UTC
0bama Barack Hussein wrote:
Klas Kanjus wrote:
I wonder what the "EvE is dead" experts are going to say when log ins spike next week?


Every game out there has spikes when new content is released, for EvE as a subscription based game more relevant is how long that spike will last.

I have fears that many players will get in few weeks/months tired of constant griefing of timers, and grinding timers back in new sov system...



Someone should probably not tell Klas that we actually had a drop in player numbers this Fri/Sat compared to last week, and last week was a holiday for our bros in the west.

Those financials look horrible on page 1. The employee numbers alone, coupled with the user levels tells us all we need to know.

But it is always comical to see the same "Yes-Men" in this thread with their positive attitudes that just buck all data and reality.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#60 - 2015-07-12 08:39:24 UTC
davet517 wrote:
Eve had a good long run of subscriber growth - as long or longer than any MMO. While it was growing, they touted the growth. When it started its inevitable decline, they shut up and started hiding the numbers. There's a good reason for doing that. People leaving can have a snowball effect if it's too easy to see and quantify.

Population is noticeably down, which is why these threads keep popping up here, and on reddit, TMC, etc.

No reason to panic. Eve will likely go on for many years, but it'll go on as a mature game, where what goes on in game is less and less "emergent", and more predictable. EQ1 is still chugging along with its die-hard players. It's just not growing or attracting new players anymore.

The engine of growth for a game is either its "stickiness" or ability to retain players and get players to refer others, or it's paid growth. As with many mature products, CCP has had to rely on "paid" growth (advertising) more and more to attract new players these last few years, as retention and referral have declined.

Nothing stays "hot" forever folks. I wouldn't be surprised to see Eve get sold off to an investor group in the next year or so, as Sony did with SOE. Since it's CCP's only viable property these days, it'd be prudent for them to start thinking exit strategy.



You're probably right, but it mostly would depend on how well FozzieSov pans out. CCP has decided to go all in with FozzieSov and whether it be a hit or miss would ultimately be the deciding factor for eve's future.