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Burner Mission - Ship advice to solo them including fittings

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Jori McKie
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#541 - 2015-06-25 17:09:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jori McKie
Estella Osoka wrote:

Have you flown a Confessor? Mine does 530 dps. A Vagabond is going to have almost 500 sig radius using a MWD, while the Confessor still has only a 60 sig radius. Sure it can be one shot if the pilot screws up spiraling in, but that is the only downside to using a Confessor.

Of course, when the Hecate comes along; it's going to make the Confessor look tame.


Yes, on paper
Confessor with Conflag + OH ~ 530DPS
Vagabond with Hail + OH 420mm ~696DPS
with the Confessor you aren't shooting into the resistance hole of the Talos (see Burner stats) but more important you have to maintain your speed at ~2600 m/s and orbit the Talos that means even with small guns lots of angular velocity. Try a DPS graph with EFT on a target with ~120m/s and full transversal, so roughly @5km orbit 300DPS.
You can of course switch into defense mode and stop burning but in my experience getting out of orbit after killing the Talos without speed is very risky and i was one shot several times.

The sig radius on the Vagabond is 389 not 500 but that doesn't really matter, the point with the Vagabond is you have the best speed to DPS ratio to get the Talos killed fastest. You don't have to orbit in the Vagabond you can use keep at range and approach to reduce your angular velocity and get max DPS.

About the Hecate, could be but it faces the same problems all T3 have.


Edit:
The Vagabond has another advantage:
- At 70 to 60km range, command your Vagabond into a 5km orbit. Shut down your MWD cycle when you are at ~40km range
- Lock the Talos at ~25km, start shooting, launch your Drones too
- When you are in orbit, more or less at 5km with around 500m/s the Talos has lost its shield and is already bleeding armor. Use now keep at range at 4km, OH your guns, and use approach when the Talos is at low armor.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." - Abrazzar
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#542 - 2015-06-26 08:54:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Jori McKie wrote:
...but more important you have to maintain your speed at ~2600 m/s and orbit the Talos that means even with small guns lots of angular velocity. Try a DPS graph with EFT on a target with ~120m/s and full transversal, so roughly @5km orbit 300DPS.

I am not sure where 2600 comes from. Perhaps if you fit some blinged AB, you can do that.
Another thing is that you can't really maintain full speed on orbit with oversized AB. Even at about 600 m/s in defence mode you still have speed/sig ratio two times better than 50mn Vagabond, and it can be improved by staying in prop mode thanks to generally better numbers there and additional agility that allows to maintain orbit on high speed better.
Confessor apparently kinda needs it because it can't afford taking shots it seems.

Now, not saying that Confessor is better, just making sure where numbers are coming from and whether I understand how things work.

Also, there's Svipul which is I think better than Confessor for this mission, but gotta check.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Crash Lander
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#543 - 2015-07-11 01:46:22 UTC
So I got the Angel Cartel Anomic Base (4 Dramiels) for the first time today and tried it with a perfectly skilled Vigilant, similar setup to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUvJTZUgQ6Y

I even saw the comment on the video and thought surely triple webs on a vigilant can track any frigate... Well apparently not, good news I got out when they aggroed drones.


Did I miss something?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#544 - 2015-07-11 05:02:12 UTC
my vigilant has 2 meta 4 webs and a meta 4 target painter. Usually misses on the first shot while the npc still has speed but hits with all the others. I do have a tracking implant, but not sure that would make too much of a difference.

Used this fit, but with a bit of shiny, and 2x MFS. Overload the hardeners and burn down the drams as fast as you can. If you aren't killing drams you will eventually go down as they do more damage than you rep (although not too much and you have some buffer). I like the extra mag stab as I'd rather have the drams dead asap, and I mwd out to the transport to loot anyways, so I don't mind shooting it. Also helps to put some heat on the guns to take out the drams. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5769036#post5769036

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#545 - 2015-07-11 18:40:14 UTC
Crash Lander wrote:


Did I miss something?


did the mission 5 mins ago with a dualweb / tp vigilant and all went as expected. i think you just shooted one of the unwebbed frigs accidently.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#546 - 2015-07-14 02:23:49 UTC
anyone else noticing the burner ashimmu going after drones relentlessly? getting tempted to go in with drone tank rigs. of course as I'm writing this it seems to be back to normal aggro. Roll

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
NeveR DTH
BLOPSEC
#547 - 2015-07-17 13:21:16 UTC
Can you do Burner missions in a Tengu?
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#548 - 2015-07-17 13:40:40 UTC
Jori McKie wrote:
Estella Osoka wrote:

Have you flown a Confessor? Mine does 530 dps. A Vagabond is going to have almost 500 sig radius using a MWD, while the Confessor still has only a 60 sig radius. Sure it can be one shot if the pilot screws up spiraling in, but that is the only downside to using a Confessor.

Of course, when the Hecate comes along; it's going to make the Confessor look tame.


Yes, on paper
Confessor with Conflag + OH ~ 530DPS
Vagabond with Hail + OH 420mm ~696DPS
with the Confessor you aren't shooting into the resistance hole of the Talos (see Burner stats) but more important you have to maintain your speed at ~2600 m/s and orbit the Talos that means even with small guns lots of angular velocity. Try a DPS graph with EFT on a target with ~120m/s and full transversal, so roughly @5km orbit 300DPS.
You can of course switch into defense mode and stop burning but in my experience getting out of orbit after killing the Talos without speed is very risky and i was one shot several times.

The sig radius on the Vagabond is 389 not 500 but that doesn't really matter, the point with the Vagabond is you have the best speed to DPS ratio to get the Talos killed fastest. You don't have to orbit in the Vagabond you can use keep at range and approach to reduce your angular velocity and get max DPS.

About the Hecate, could be but it faces the same problems all T3 have.


Edit:
The Vagabond has another advantage:
- At 70 to 60km range, command your Vagabond into a 5km orbit. Shut down your MWD cycle when you are at ~40km range
- Lock the Talos at ~25km, start shooting, launch your Drones too
- When you are in orbit, more or less at 5km with around 500m/s the Talos has lost its shield and is already bleeding armor. Use now keep at range at 4km, OH your guns, and use approach when the Talos is at low armor.


I don't know what fit you are using but my Confessor gets 530 without OH.

Vagabond may be able to hit out to that range, but it is going to be damped down to 33km, maybe less.

Best ship I have used so far is a HAM Cerberus using Scourge Fury.
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#549 - 2015-07-17 16:13:09 UTC
NeveR DTH wrote:
Can you do Burner missions in a Tengu?


No.
Ch3244
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#550 - 2015-07-23 04:06:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Ch3244
I did the anomic base angel mission today in a vigilant.

It took me 8 minutes, but I was in no rush.

I dropped drones as soon as I entered and then webbed the closest dramiel when he was 5k away. While drones were out I was not taking much damage. once I had no more drones the dps came on harder even when 2 dramiels were dead.

I think it might be worth just throwing out 3 drones at a time as a sacrifice. Even when only one drone was out the dps was lighter.

I did not have to overheat any modules though.

I should note that I have gallente and minmatar cruiser 5 and decent gunnery skills and ok armor skills. If you do not have decent skills I doubt this will work very well without pimping the fit with faction gear.

Cap was not much of an issue. mwd is not very useful when you are scrammed, might be worth dropping a depot and refitting to mwd once you kill the dramiels.

[Vigilant, Burner Angel basic]

Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

50MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800

Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M
Modal Neutron Particle Accelerator I, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M

Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I


Acolyte I x5
Acolyte I x5
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#551 - 2015-07-23 12:05:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ploing
why the Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump II ? it should be the em one.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#552 - 2015-07-23 23:57:54 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Much thanks and +1 to Jori McKie for creating this very informative thread.

Definitely should be a sticky thread.



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#553 - 2015-07-25 03:57:14 UTC
Ploing wrote:
why the Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump II ? it should be the em one.


that plus if you are going to drone tank I'd say swap at least one low slot for a dps mod, will help you burn down more drams while they are busy with drones and not shooting you. I notice a huge difference between 1 and 2 mag stabs, I can't imagine running with 0. With 1 dda and 1 mag stab you kill the drams about the same as vespa IIs kill the hauler, I much prefer the 2 mag stabs to kill the drams as fast as I can, and then refit to DDA (or lately just ignore the DDAs and mwd over and one or two shot the hauler).

and agree 100% on bring a mobile depot. I start with a painter to help burn down the drams, and swap to a mwd to finish off and loot the hauler.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
#554 - 2015-07-25 18:45:09 UTC
For the Angel Base Burner:

[Ferox, Angel Base Burner]
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II

Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800
Gistum B-Type Explosive Deflection Amplifier
Large Shield Extender II
EM Ward Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Dark Blood Medium EMP Smartbomb
Dark Blood Medium EMP Smartbomb
Dark Blood Medium EMP Smartbomb
Dark Blood Medium EMP Smartbomb
Dark Blood Medium EMP Smartbomb
Dark Blood Medium EMP Smartbomb
Dark Blood Medium EMP Smartbomb
Dark Blood Medium EMP Smartbomb

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

'Augmented' Hornet x5

Same drone DPS as jackduza's Cyclone, extra smartbomb, similar buffer. Bring a MTU. You can expect to burn about 8 Navy Cap Booster 800.

I have been previously using the T2 version, which lacks the DDAs and is extremely close due to cap - frigs die as you run out of cap at skills lvl 5, OH the cap injector.

[Ferox, Angel Base Burner T2 cheap]
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Damage Control II

Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I
Gistum B-Type Explosive Deflection Amplifier
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
EM Ward Amplifier II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II

Medium EMP Smartbomb II
Medium EMP Smartbomb II
Medium EMP Smartbomb II
Medium EMP Smartbomb II
Medium EMP Smartbomb II
Medium EMP Smartbomb II
Medium EMP Smartbomb II
Medium EMP Smartbomb II

Medium Semiconductor Memory Cell II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Hornet II x5
Ch3244
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#555 - 2015-07-25 22:00:48 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Ploing wrote:
why the Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump II ? it should be the em one.


that plus if you are going to drone tank I'd say swap at least one low slot for a dps mod, will help you burn down more drams while they are busy with drones and not shooting you. I notice a huge difference between 1 and 2 mag stabs, I can't imagine running with 0. With 1 dda and 1 mag stab you kill the drams about the same as vespa IIs kill the hauler, I much prefer the 2 mag stabs to kill the drams as fast as I can, and then refit to DDA (or lately just ignore the DDAs and mwd over and one or two shot the hauler).

and agree 100% on bring a mobile depot. I start with a painter to help burn down the drams, and swap to a mwd to finish off and loot the hauler.


Yes, I successfully completed burner Talos with that fit just by switching out the hardners for kinetic and thermal, but I tried it again later that day and forgot to release drones and lost the ship in the first 30 seconds unfortunately.

In the future I am going to go with something more tanky.



On another note, Is there a single frigate that can solo all of the burner agents? I find them much more annoying than the burner teams. I think a Cruor, Daredevil, or Vengence are the most likely ships. Right now I am using a passive tanked jaguar(200-400 dps tank) and a hyena to do the agents, but would rather be able to do them solo.

The agent missions are sort of bullshit. succubus has 14km orbit at 3100 m/s with a 19km scram and web and it puts out 170 dps 80% of it em and 20% of it therm. You either need a dram with faction overheated webs or a cruor to do it as a brawler, possibly some missile ship would work, but it will be hard to tank when painters take up mid slots. Not to mention you can't really shield tank it well with that 80%em dmg, so you need a missile ship with 4 lows, 1 mid for cap booster, and probably 2 more for missile mods or painter/web.

I haven't tried the worm yet, but I bet that one will be annoying, I'm thinking a daredevil can probably do it if you catch him in time.
Ploing
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#556 - 2015-07-26 12:19:52 UTC
Ch3244 wrote:




On another note, Is there a single frigate that can solo all of the burner agents? I find them much more annoying than the burner teams. I think a Cruor, Daredevil, or Vengence are the most likely ships. Right now I am using a passive tanked jaguar(200-400 dps tank) and a hyena to do the agents, but would rather be able to do them solo.

The agent missions are sort of bullshit. succubus has 14km orbit at 3100 m/s with a 19km scram and web and it puts out 170 dps 80% of it em and 20% of it therm. You either need a dram with faction overheated webs or a cruor to do it as a brawler, possibly some missile ship would work, but it will be hard to tank when painters take up mid slots. Not to mention you can't really shield tank it well with that 80%em dmg, so you need a missile ship with 4 lows, 1 mid for cap booster, and probably 2 more for missile mods or painter/web.

I haven't tried the worm yet, but I bet that one will be annoying, I'm thinking a daredevil can probably do it if you catch him in time.




take a look at the startpost for the unified daredevil.

the succubus can also be done with a wolf.

[Wolf, burner sansha ]
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Corpii A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Capacitor Power Relay II
Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer
Tracking Enhancer II

Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Script

200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
200mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP S
[empty high slot]

Small Projectile Ambit Extension II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II

~ 2:30 min.
Super Hana
All-Out
White Stag Exit Bag
#557 - 2015-07-28 22:04:24 UTC
Apologies if this was asked before, but can the unified Daredevil fit "permatank" (within cap booster limits) the DPS of the burners, or will it break in a close DPS race?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#558 - 2015-07-28 23:42:28 UTC
Super Hana wrote:
Apologies if this was asked before, but can the unified Daredevil fit "permatank" (within cap booster limits) the DPS of the burners, or will it break in a close DPS race?


add heat, where needed, and the tank is fine. The burner dram seems to hit the hardest, I pretty much always go in with one hardener overloaded, and sometimes overload the rep.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#559 - 2015-07-29 01:15:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton
Ch3244 wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Ploing wrote:
why the Medium Anti-Kinetic Pump II ? it should be the em one.


that plus if you are going to drone tank I'd say swap at least one low slot for a dps mod, will help you burn down more drams while they are busy with drones and not shooting you. I notice a huge difference between 1 and 2 mag stabs, I can't imagine running with 0. With 1 dda and 1 mag stab you kill the drams about the same as vespa IIs kill the hauler, I much prefer the 2 mag stabs to kill the drams as fast as I can, and then refit to DDA (or lately just ignore the DDAs and mwd over and one or two shot the hauler).

and agree 100% on bring a mobile depot. I start with a painter to help burn down the drams, and swap to a mwd to finish off and loot the hauler.


Yes, I successfully completed burner Talos with that fit just by switching out the hardners for kinetic and thermal, but I tried it again later that day and forgot to release drones and lost the ship in the first 30 seconds unfortunately.

In the future I am going to go with something more tanky.



On another note, Is there a single frigate that can solo all of the burner agents? I find them much more annoying than the burner teams. I think a Cruor, Daredevil, or Vengence are the most likely ships. Right now I am using a passive tanked jaguar(200-400 dps tank) and a hyena to do the agents, but would rather be able to do them solo.

The agent missions are sort of bullshit. succubus has 14km orbit at 3100 m/s with a 19km scram and web and it puts out 170 dps 80% of it em and 20% of it therm. You either need a dram with faction overheated webs or a cruor to do it as a brawler, possibly some missile ship would work, but it will be hard to tank when painters take up mid slots. Not to mention you can't really shield tank it well with that 80%em dmg, so you need a missile ship with 4 lows, 1 mid for cap booster, and probably 2 more for missile mods or painter/web.

I haven't tried the worm yet, but I bet that one will be annoying, I'm thinking a daredevil can probably do it if you catch him in time.



vs burner succubus the unified daredevil with a faction web and ab does it fine.

vs worm 2x kinetic hardeners with one overloaded the daredevil catches up fine. I think the main reason for the unique fit is need some extra PG to get the MWD to fit. I guess you could switch to ions and use a compact mwd, not sure if the dps difference would matter.

I'm not sure the daredevil could kill the burner cruor, or daredevil though. Vs Cruor a double cap booster setup might work? Although vs the daredevil I think it can overload rep and/or hardener long enough it might work. its rail dps is a bit low however, and I'm not sure it has enough to take it down, maybe a web ab blaster setup would? I use the Enyo setup, and that does ~300 dps with overload and a gunnery implant. which is apparently just on the edge of working.

Oh yea, and I like the deimos for the burner talos mission, the armor rep bonus makes it pretty easy to tank, and with an overloaded MWD you barely get hit flying between ships. throw some suicide drones out to absorb some more hits and it never feels like danger, aside from the one time I sat still with my mwd on, that hurt a little.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#560 - 2015-07-30 22:17:32 UTC
Is there a gunnery based ship that can run the Ashimuu Burner mission?

I don't have missile skills for the Gila or Cerebus, and I don't have T2 Heavy Drones for the Ishtar yet (I'm losing faction drones on Sisi).