EVE General Discussion

Ok, there are so many things wrong with this post, let me see if I can correct your thinking here.

First, the figures are quite plainly not "pointless", if that were the case then people wouldn't be on here complaining that they have to put in some mental effort to maximise their character training speed.

Also, I'm not sure if you are aware seeing as you are pretty new, but pretty much everything in eve boils down to "arbitrary" figures.

Let us say you want to create a fitting for a new ship you just bought: first you have to deal with two arbitrary figures; the ships CPU and PG. This makes it difficult to min max your ship as you need a knowledge of a very large set of archaic and arbitrary numbers alongside a knowledge of how another set of archaic and arbitrary numbers are going to interact with each other when it hits the fan.

Now following your line of thinking we should remove all these numbers and allow any module to fit on the respective slot (of course you'd have to restrict the modules to the hull class, and to reflect the power of the module you would need to allow some to require multiple slots). But this would reduce arbitrary numbers and would allow you to easily fulfil your desire to min max correct?

Much like the skill system ship fitting takes a lot of knowledge (far more than the skill system) and mastery of all the types of modules available and their respective CPU and PG requirements to maximise that ships capabilities (and that is not to mention cap requirement, activation time, specific bonuses etc.). Now to some this is very boring and they'll just go to eve uni where they can get a decent fit served to them, but to others is an an interesting and complex puzzle.

And lets not go into industry and trading, as I am sure that will bore you even more as you are just playing around with numbers as your bread and butter gameplay.

So it its essence eve has always been a game where players are rewarded for being clever with arbitrary numbers. That being said if you want to enjoy the more action oriented side of the game you can do that, but just don't expect to fulfil your desire for min maxing when your not either clever enough or prepared to put in the effort to do so.

Actually, if you sat back a bit, ask a few questions, and keep your opinion to your self, you might pick up more than just angst.

Oh you're so right! Lets remove them and when while we're removing them then lets remove Skiilpoints too. There so less fun, all my trendy Hipster friends say i'm so 1990's because i play a game which asks for skillpoint. And then we should remove ganking in High Sec, because that's also so much unfun, say my trendy Starbucks slurping Hipster Casual friends.
But most of my Taliban bearded Hipster friends say, im totally Pro war, Anti vegan and a misogynist because i play EVE and not Splatoon.
I'm so uncool, i cried the whole night into my pillow, my poor pillow!

/cynism

(And no, i'm sober)

oh God.


What have you done!

It is not just an interesting thing to micromanage, or a puzzle to solve, but it is one of the aspects of the game that players really care about and as a result it could provide some of the most meaningful choices in the game. I think it is a shame that SP loss has almost been removed from the game, although I agree the implementation of it they had with having to update your clone wasn't the best.

There is an issue with how disproportionate any negative effect is on a new player compared to an older player, but there are plenty of solutions to that problem without ripping out the whole system.

I don't think we're that lucky. But I suppose we have to settle for killing one pointless system at a time.

I would actually love to see attributes stay as a concept. Just not one tied to the ridiculous skill system. Ideally, every endeavor in the game would be tied in some way to each attribute. Perception would give bonuses to something, whether you were hauling, exploring, FC or trading. As would Willpower, Charisma, etc.

I don't expect that to ever happen because it would be a tremendous amount of work for CCP to figure out appropriate benefits and balance levels. And as far as player support goes, I'm sure it would somehow be 'dumbing down EVE', or some such nonsense.

PS:
Wait, sorry - didn't mean "pointless". I meant "obnoxious clutter which fails to provide an illusion of choice in an archaic system of character progression".

I don't know about Chance, but my visits to the EVE forums might have me pick up a drinking problem.

The rhetorical hoops people will jump through to defend a system that comprises SWITCHING FIVE NUMBERS ONCE PER YEAR is quite entertaining.

We've seen it been said that if you cannot switch five numbers once per year, Eve will become Mario Kart or WoW. If you take away the annual number swap, the game will lose significant depth. If you can't adjust the value of five integers every 365 days, characters become cookie cutter copies of each other, regardless of skills trained, accomplishments made, or personal lore.

Just close your eyes and imagine one year from now you somehow survived without editing five integer fields over the span of fifteen gameplay seconds. Try to remain calm during this process.

Even now you fail to acknowledge the impact attributes have on game, take into consideration implants too, and see how CCP fails to break the system because it is in fact good, all encompasing feature. Try to simple down the implants too, modules, or even ships. You can simple down everything, into an flat, uninteresting plain where everybody can jump at the same height.

You can name it whatever you want, but I know its not a place where EVE should end.

This thought has touched my mind at a number of spots in this thread. I may need a shrink now.

Actually, probably screams SWG between CU and NGE. Most/all consequences were removed from the game and the skill tree system turned into basically a pre-defined class system.
It died. dead - dead - dead.

Edit: in fact, come to think of it, SOE isn't even around any longer. So much fail over the years :/

I can expand on that, and maybe see a relation happening here. SWG was a strong openworld sandbox mmo, at peak (global accounts) had just a little less playing than EVE at known peak (EVE turning a little more secretive now ). The Devs at SWG got into their head the idea of making it easier for new players, to get new players with a more simplified system. After CU which was rejected by the vet community, they secretively worked on NGE.

One day there was a huge surprise patch which fundamentally changed the game. That day all the servers emptied out and there were what I could describe as Jita riots in the development forums, near everyone came out of the woodwork to post their disgust. The mmo charts show the sudden drop in subscriptions, there was no backtracking by SOE to restore the game, and SWG never got the new players they sought after. It ran with minimal player activity for years before finally shutting down.

The thing that drives such a game is the vets, not dumbed down gameplay. Vets bring in new players far more efficiently than some fail ad campaign. When you anger the vets, those that actually play your game, they stop bringing in new players. I see CCP starting to go down that path, and it's conclusion is a huge mistake. No secrets, no dumbing down to draw in new players, they wont come, only players leaving. It's happened before, SWG the prime example of how not to run an mmorpg.