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Crime & Punishment

 
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People! Train your newbies!

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Zealous Miner
Doomheim
#41 - 2015-07-08 01:51:51 UTC
If it isn't a starter/protected system then pull the trigger.

Each gun packs a lesson people are better off learning sooner rather than later.

Fedo. Fedo? Fedo!
Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
#42 - 2015-07-08 02:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaely Tanniss
Petre en Thielles wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:

No


Um, yes, in response to asking what is a rookie:

GM Homonoia wrote:

We are not going to define them. We say 8 days, someone will target 9 day old people. Again, spirit of the rule, not the letter. If you find yourself trying to figure out specifically where we draw the line you are obviously targeting rookies, which is NOT allowed. You decide to do this, you will find out where the line is when we warn you.


If you're specifically targeting newbies, you need to take a step back and have your head examined.


ANYONE in a war is a target..noob or vet. If the Ceo of the corp they joined didn't explain that his corp was at war or what that means to the noob..then the blame lies with the corps CEO..not the agressor. Most mercs and PvPers are NOT gonna take the time to look up a flashy to make sure they aren't new. Noobs are safe only 1 place..rookie systems. When they choose to venture out, they accept whatever risks are associated with that.

Very few people who start Eve are unaware of what kind of game it is. There is a misconception of what a noob is too...a 1 day old char that is an alt of a vet is NOT a noob. How are we supposed to tell the dfference...we aren't..shoot first, sort it out later. 'Tis the way of Eve.

If you want to play a game where you are safe...Eve is not the game. Blink

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
Citizen's Star Republic
#43 - 2015-07-08 07:45:00 UTC
Funny, I had a thread about someone killing newbros last year. I changed how I looked at things after thatBlink

Killing a newbro is okay, as in this case he was a WT, out of rookies system, and had his ship replaced. Probably learned more than his corp tought him and had some fun too. Well done.

I think that there is a distinct difference between killing a newbro and systematically targeting them. I don't think anyone here would disagree.


Tora Bushido wrote:
I'm an evil war lord ! And if I want to SRP war target newbies we just shot, I shall enforce my isks upon him. If he wants it or not !! Twisted


You old softieLol
Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
BLACKFLAG.
#44 - 2015-07-08 07:59:42 UTC
In real life I would probably be the one helping newbies. In Eve I try to be an 'evil war lord', but sometimes my softie side remembers me how it was, when I started playing Eve and lost something. It's funny sometimes when you srp them, they think they're being scammed, but cant find the reason why..... cause there isnt one Big smile

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#45 - 2015-07-08 14:33:24 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
You should try reading further, there was a very specific case raised in the thread that clarifies rookie system rules, and it's an exact match for this one.

GM Homonoia wrote:
And this is why we will not define what a rookie is. Once again, common sense; a rookie involves himself in a war, perhaps not so rookie anymore. Now, stop coming up with hypothetical situations and apply some common sense.


I did read it. I focused on the 'spirit of the rule' which I interpreted to mean give someone a few days to get their feet wet before you try to shoot them. Obviously not everyone interprets it that way.

Again, I'm just arguing for giving rookies a few days to catch their breath. I'm not saying go easy on them, just go easy for the first day or two.

What fun is it exactly to shoot a day old pilot anyway?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#46 - 2015-07-08 15:03:48 UTC
Petre en Thielles wrote:
I did read it.
So why the angst? Newbie was a war target, the GM quote suggests that killing a newbie that gets involved in a war is fine.

Quote:
I focused on the 'spirit of the rule' which I interpreted to mean give someone a few days to get their feet wet before you try to shoot them. Obviously not everyone interprets it that way.
We get the spirit of the rule, which is to refrain from futzing with newbies by using their ignorance against them.

Newbie steals from a wreck, valid target; unless you told them it was OK and then shoot them.
Newbie joins a corp that's at war, valid target regardless of their newbie status.
Newbie moves Plex in a frigate, valid target regardless of their newbie status.

Newbie is enticed into a combat situation by a more experienced player using their ignorance against them in any way, not a valid target.

Quote:
Again, I'm just arguing for giving rookies a few days to catch their breath. I'm not saying go easy on them, just go easy for the first day or two.
We're fine with leaving them alone for a while, unless they make themselves valid targets without encouragement. That said it's far better for a newbie to learn that a ship is a disposable tool while they're flying frigates, instead of when they're flying poorly fitted BC's because they think bigger is better.

Quote:
What fun is it exactly to shoot a day old pilot anyway?
Curiosity

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#47 - 2015-07-08 15:19:34 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Petre en Thielles wrote:
I did read it.
So why the angst? Newbie was a war target, the GM quote suggests that killing a newbie that gets involved in a war is fine.

Quote:
I focused on the 'spirit of the rule' which I interpreted to mean give someone a few days to get their feet wet before you try to shoot them. Obviously not everyone interprets it that way.
We get the spirit of the rule, which is to refrain from futzing with newbies by using their ignorance against them.

Newbie steals from a wreck, valid target; unless you told them it was OK and then shoot them.
Newbie joins a corp that's at war, valid target regardless of their newbie status.
Newbie moves Plex in a frigate, valid target regardless of their newbie status.

Newbie is enticed into a combat situation by a more experienced player using their ignorance against them in any way, not a valid target.

Quote:
Again, I'm just arguing for giving rookies a few days to catch their breath. I'm not saying go easy on them, just go easy for the first day or two.
We're fine with leaving them alone for a while, unless they make themselves valid targets without encouragement. That said it's far better for a newbie to learn that a ship is a disposable tool while they're flying frigates, instead of when they're flying poorly fitted BC's because they think bigger is better.

Quote:
What fun is it exactly to shoot a day old pilot anyway?
Curiosity


I understand what you are saying, and obviously we are never going to agree on this.

I as a rule don't do anything to a newbie under a week old, no matter what. I feel they deserve that time to get used to the game. After that, I shoot any chance I get.

Obviously not everyone agrees.

I also never shoot anything that can't shoot back. I don't see the fun of being the guy kicking over the 4 year old's sand castle.

Obviously not everyone agrees with that as well.

In EVE you are allowed (and encouraged) to be the as*hole. That's part of what makes this game work so well. I love EVE as it stands, and without gankers, people hunting newbies, carebear wardec corps shooting people who they know can't fight back, etc. there wouldn't be any 'villains' to fight against. EVE would be a lot less fun.

Personally, I just don't see the draw of hunting a newbie who you know can't do anything to defend themself. But to each his own. Play EVE how you want to play it. That's the idea.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#48 - 2015-07-08 15:39:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Often times, particularly in highsec wars the goal becomes to inflict morale damage in order to get members of a corp to turn against their leadership or quit the corp entirely.

Nothing makes a CEO look quite so cowardly, impotent and uncaring as you pointing a week old newbie with your assault frig and holding him there for 15 minutes as the CEO sits docked up in local doing nothing to rescue one of his most vulnerable members.

I totally took the be the villain ads to heart if you can't tell.
Syrilian
Doomheim
#49 - 2015-07-08 16:24:01 UTC
hey I just had a great idea. If newbies shouldn't be shot at, I am going to create like 5 alts and join a war decced corp fly all my alts in rookie ships around a war target, all the while yelling "NO TOUCHING!" in local.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#50 - 2015-07-08 23:13:56 UTC
Anybody who checks every character before they kill them is already to risk adverse for my liking

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Leto Thule
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2015-07-08 23:17:31 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Anybody who checks every character before they kill them is already to risk adverse for my liking


Seriously this.

If you wait, you can lose your target. No way I am opening up a character sheet and reading the corp history to determine age before fighting someone.

Thunderdome ringmaster, Community Leader and Lord Inquisitor to the Court of Crime and Punishment
Damnskippy
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2015-07-09 01:26:19 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Anybody who checks every character before they kill them is already to risk adverse for my liking


+1

I myself like to shoot at anything I can and decide if it was a good idea afterwards. What fun are fights if you are guaranteed to win?
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#53 - 2015-07-09 02:42:52 UTC
Petre en Thielles wrote:
[

I understand what you are saying, and obviously we are never going to agree on this.

I as a rule don't do anything to a newbie under a week old, no matter what. I feel they deserve that time to get used to the game. After that, I shoot any chance I get.

Obviously not everyone agrees.

I also never shoot anything that can't shoot back. I don't see the fun of being the guy kicking over the 4 year old's sand castle.

Obviously not everyone agrees with that as well.

In EVE you are allowed (and encouraged) to be the as*hole. That's part of what makes this game work so well. I love EVE as it stands, and without gankers, people hunting newbies, carebear wardec corps shooting people who they know can't fight back, etc. there wouldn't be any 'villains' to fight against. EVE would be a lot less fun.

Personally, I just don't see the draw of hunting a newbie who you know can't do anything to defend themself. But to each his own. Play EVE how you want to play it. That's the idea.



CCP did a study a while back and found that newbros who lose ships in non-consentual combat within their first 2 weeks (gank/flip/whatever) statistically stay longer than those who do not have this experience.

Short answer: If you don't see the dark side of eve in the first few weeks, you're more likely to quit.

I'm still waiting on my retention award. I suspect I'm responsible for a sizeable portion of the player base.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#54 - 2015-07-09 08:25:18 UTC
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Petre en Thielles wrote:
[

I understand what you are saying, and obviously we are never going to agree on this.

I as a rule don't do anything to a newbie under a week old, no matter what. I feel they deserve that time to get used to the game. After that, I shoot any chance I get.

Obviously not everyone agrees.

I also never shoot anything that can't shoot back. I don't see the fun of being the guy kicking over the 4 year old's sand castle.

Obviously not everyone agrees with that as well.

In EVE you are allowed (and encouraged) to be the as*hole. That's part of what makes this game work so well. I love EVE as it stands, and without gankers, people hunting newbies, carebear wardec corps shooting people who they know can't fight back, etc. there wouldn't be any 'villains' to fight against. EVE would be a lot less fun.

Personally, I just don't see the draw of hunting a newbie who you know can't do anything to defend themself. But to each his own. Play EVE how you want to play it. That's the idea.



CCP did a study a while back and found that newbros who lose ships in non-consentual combat within their first 2 weeks (gank/flip/whatever) statistically stay longer than those who do not have this experience.

Short answer: If you don't see the dark side of eve in the first few weeks, you're more likely to quit.

I'm still waiting on my retention award. I suspect I'm responsible for a sizeable portion of the player base.

I already linked him this. Its like a brick wall even when the game designers release statistics saying his stance is not only misguided but detrimental to the game he doesn't back down or alter his views

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Domino Vyse
FeedingMachine
War and Wormhole
#55 - 2015-07-09 08:58:24 UTC
Dunking new players is one of the best ways to keep them subbed. They love it.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#56 - 2015-07-09 09:00:44 UTC
Yourmoney Mywallet wrote:
also tell him that his ceo will make up for his loss, because - well, that's what a corp is for, no?


never heard of corps just reimbursing ships for solo stuff, i need to find a corp like that to replace my ships on my drunken solo escapades Pirate

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Mobadder Thworst
Doomheim
#57 - 2015-07-09 10:45:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Mobadder Thworst
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
Petre en Thielles wrote:
[

I understand what you are saying, and obviously we are never going to agree on this.

I as a rule don't do anything to a newbie under a week old, no matter what. I feel they deserve that time to get used to the game. After that, I shoot any chance I get.

Obviously not everyone agrees.

I also never shoot anything that can't shoot back. I don't see the fun of being the guy kicking over the 4 year old's sand castle.

Obviously not everyone agrees with that as well.

In EVE you are allowed (and encouraged) to be the as*hole. That's part of what makes this game work so well. I love EVE as it stands, and without gankers, people hunting newbies, carebear wardec corps shooting people who they know can't fight back, etc. there wouldn't be any 'villains' to fight against. EVE would be a lot less fun.

Personally, I just don't see the draw of hunting a newbie who you know can't do anything to defend themself. But to each his own. Play EVE how you want to play it. That's the idea.



CCP did a study a while back and found that newbros who lose ships in non-consentual combat within their first 2 weeks (gank/flip/whatever) statistically stay longer than those who do not have this experience.

Short answer: If you don't see the dark side of eve in the first few weeks, you're more likely to quit.

I'm still waiting on my retention award. I suspect I'm responsible for a sizeable portion of the player base.

I already linked him this. Its like a brick wall even when the game designers release statistics saying his stance is not only misguided but detrimental to the game he doesn't back down or alter his views


People like Petre are destroying the game. Has he no morals?

I can hardly kill noobs fast enough to offset his bad energy.

I still regret the failure of the "No Newbro Left Behind" initiative. Veers and I just couldn't make it go. We were going to save the universe...

What I do, I do for the children...

Where is my damn retention award.
Mo
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#58 - 2015-07-09 13:47:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Petre en Thielles
Mobadder Thworst wrote:
CCP did a study a while back and found that newbros who lose ships in non-consentual combat within their first 2 weeks (gank/flip/whatever) statistically stay longer than those who do not have this experience.

Short answer: If you don't see the dark side of eve in the first few weeks, you're more likely to quit.

I'm still waiting on my retention award. I suspect I'm responsible for a sizeable portion of the player base.


Are you even reading what I said?

I am 100% in favor of ganking new players. I said give them a day or two, not don't ever kill a newbie. Christ...

Mobadder Thworst wrote:


People like Petre are destroying the game. Has he no morals?

I can hardly kill noobs fast enough to offset his bad energy.

I still regret the failure of the "No Newbro Left Behind" initiative. Veers and I just couldn't make it go. We were going to save the universe...

What I do, I do for the children...

Where is my damn retention award.
Mo


Reading is hard, isn't it? Give a newbie 24 hours to get through the career missions. Yep. I'm destroying the game by saying that.

10/10, great post Mo! You can read gud.

Now go back to the noble work of padding your KB with mindless, easy kills like the bear that high sec gankers are.
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#59 - 2015-07-09 13:57:00 UTC
How does one know they are killing a newbie before the deed is done? Your posting in a thread where a newbie was in a pipe...

Reading is hard, isn't it?

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#60 - 2015-07-09 14:57:48 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
How does one know they are killing a newbie before the deed is done? Your posting in a thread where a newbie was in a pipe...

Reading is hard, isn't it?


apologize, I don't mindlessly sit on gates and blap people. I actually check corp history, research people, etc. before engaging

I don't think like a high sec war dec bear