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Gallente tactical destroyer - Forced to use MWD setups not fun.
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Hengle Teron
Red Sky Morning
The Amarr Militia.
#21 - 2015-07-07 15:00:50 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
And how is it fair than Svipul doesn't get hull resist bonuses ? I want mine hull tanked, dammit.


Svipul gets armor and shield resists instead, a balanced trade off.

No, it's not balanced, I want my Sviplul hull tanked, and I can't, cause it gets no bonus!


Good for you little man. Now run along, I think your mother is calling you.

Haha.

So, that's what you think about people with your attitude.
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#22 - 2015-07-07 15:01:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Nidal Fervor
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
If I want to use the Hecate, I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode? MWD speed and cap usage only effects MWD's, not afterburners.

But you at least get 66% inertia boost from propulsion mode still, you might say? If you look at the inertia of the Hecate you will see that it is twice as high as Svipul and more than twice as high as Confessor; this makes the bonus worthless in comparison.

I realise that the purely MWD bonus is probably there to stop people using 10mn afterburner set ups but what about those of us who want to use 1mn afterburners or gisti 1mn afterburners? There's no simply no option for it, because propulsion mode is next to worthless to use with afterburners in a Hecate; you're better to forgo gallente and use a better designed tactical destroyer which doesn't reward only MWD usage.

For that reason if I want to play with 1mn afterburners I am forced to use an entirely different ship that can take advantage of the bonus, the svipul for instance. Which means I don't get to play my favorite race's tactical destroyer, all because of badly designed bonuses, which are only designed that way to prevent oversized afterburner play, while also ruining normal sized 1mn afterburner play at the same time.

I realise it's probably too late to change this now, but couldn't you have found a better way to do propulsion mode for the Hecate so at least 1mn afterburners are viable and not just MWD's for the sake of penalising the oversized afterburner style.


So, if i want to use a Loki, i have to use projectile weapons? the bonusses should also be for hybrids and lazors!!! it's not fun that i have to use projectiles but can't choose lasers!

Different ships, different bonusses. Use them as intended or dont whine about them ;)


I keep hearing this irrational argument.

All tactical destroyers except for the gallente version get the option of using afterburner or MWD, because their propulsion mode bonuses are flexible. The gallente version has a very inflexible bonus, allowing benefit only to MWD's and making use of afterburners pointless. That is not balanced.

That's the final time I respond to this stupidity with a logical argument. Good day.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-07-07 15:09:20 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Hengle Teron wrote:
And how is it fair than Svipul doesn't get hull resist bonuses ? I want mine hull tanked, dammit.


Svipul gets armor and shield resists instead, a balanced trade off.

No, it's not balanced, I want my Sviplul hull tanked, and I can't, cause it gets no bonus!


Good for you little man. Now run along, I think your mother is calling you.

The irony! Lol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Masaaq
Soggy Biscuit.
#24 - 2015-07-07 15:14:08 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Miomeifeng Alduin wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
If I want to use the Hecate, I am forced to use MWD or else I won't be taking advantage of the propulsion mode? MWD speed and cap usage only effects MWD's, not afterburners.

But you at least get 66% inertia boost from propulsion mode still, you might say? If you look at the inertia of the Hecate you will see that it is twice as high as Svipul and more than twice as high as Confessor; this makes the bonus worthless in comparison.

I realise that the purely MWD bonus is probably there to stop people using 10mn afterburner set ups but what about those of us who want to use 1mn afterburners or gisti 1mn afterburners? There's no simply no option for it, because propulsion mode is next to worthless to use with afterburners in a Hecate; you're better to forgo gallente and use a better designed tactical destroyer which doesn't reward only MWD usage.

For that reason if I want to play with 1mn afterburners I am forced to use an entirely different ship that can take advantage of the bonus, the svipul for instance. Which means I don't get to play my favorite race's tactical destroyer, all because of badly designed bonuses, which are only designed that way to prevent oversized afterburner play, while also ruining normal sized 1mn afterburner play at the same time.

I realise it's probably too late to change this now, but couldn't you have found a better way to do propulsion mode for the Hecate so at least 1mn afterburners are viable and not just MWD's for the sake of penalising the oversized afterburner style.


So, if i want to use a Loki, i have to use projectile weapons? the bonusses should also be for hybrids and lazors!!! it's not fun that i have to use projectiles but can't choose lasers!

Different ships, different bonusses. Use them as intended or dont whine about them ;)


I keep hearing this irrational argument.

All tactical destroyers except for the gallente version get the option of using afterburner or MWD, because their propulsion mode bonuses are flexible. The gallente version has a very inflexible bonus, allowing benefit only to MWD's and making use of afterburners pointless. That is not balanced.

That's the final time I respond to this stupidity with a logical argument. Good day.


Why did you even bother to start this thread?

The Hecate is the only tactical destroyer to receive three bonuses while in propulsion mode. It also has a bonus to armour resists, hull resists and a reduction to armour rep duration, meaning that you can run a tier two rep like an ancillary rep (in terms of rep per sec). These are huge advantages over the others, and far better than the Svipul's shield and armour bonuses.

It is good that you have decided to stop responding logically though, as that clearly was not working for you.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#25 - 2015-07-07 15:15:44 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
That's the final time I respond to this stupidity with a logical argument. Good day.
For it to be the last time, there has to have been previous instances of it Shocked

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Masaaq
Soggy Biscuit.
#26 - 2015-07-07 15:17:07 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
That's the final time I respond to this stupidity with a logical argument. Good day.
For it to be the last time, there has to have been previous instances of it Shocked


Spot on, sir.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#27 - 2015-07-07 17:30:07 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Because it's stupid to force people to use MWD or not get any bonus.

They still get bonuses. Quite a lot of them.

Oh god.
Mizhir
Devara Biotech
#28 - 2015-07-07 19:27:08 UTC
Jeez, When do people learn to provide feedback when they actually ask for feedback rather than on the god damn patch day?

โค๏ธ๏ธ๐Ÿ’›๐Ÿ’š๐Ÿ’™๐Ÿ’œ
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#29 - 2015-07-07 19:50:41 UTC
It's almost like different ships are different.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#30 - 2015-07-07 19:58:53 UTC
The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox. Roles imo should be removed from most ships in EVE (perhaps the bonuses can be placed in rigs) - after all why shouldn't I be able to slap hard points onto an orca or turn a tempest into a giant mining barge? The limitation for ship customization should be hull and mod size. What about the all holy ship balance? Well its a sand box - or at least it is supposed to be a sand box -- in a real sand box balance is dictated by the players, not the devs. Right now CCP is trying to nerf drone boats and buff missiles - which is just an example of the endless neff/buff cycle that ccp engages in. CCP never achieves balance and only creates new flavors of the month. It would be better for ccp to break the cycle and let the players create the balance.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#31 - 2015-07-07 20:00:10 UTC
it has 4 mids, could probably dual prop it pretty well. plus once you get into brawl range you can swap into a different mode and your AB speed won't change.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#32 - 2015-07-07 20:02:34 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox.


...really? Of anything else you might have said, you're going for this absurdity?

Ship roles are this game's substitute for character classes, genius. They are a necessity to the sandbox, and are what primarily allows for diversity between ship types, as opposed to "Generic Minmatar Medium ship, Generic Amarr Medium ship", etc.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#33 - 2015-07-07 20:07:17 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:
The bottom line is roles by definition are anti-sandbox.


So shovels and pails should do the exact same thing?
Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#34 - 2015-07-07 21:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
I was going to be snarky about afterburner PVP fits, because everyone harassed me about afterburner fits in the past. But they have their uses in pvp besides oversizing and dual proping.

And if you are going to ask, don't bother getting me started on an example of a situation involving an afterburner, just don't. You do not want to open that can of worms.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh โ€” a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroismโ€ฆ qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-07-07 22:07:57 UTC
I'll just use one of the other three T3 destroyers that doesn't essentially restrict your choice in afterburner or MWD. By the way, I didn't realise that poor game design choices equated to class roles these days.

So far there hasn't been a single good argument as to why 3 out of 4 of the T3 destroyers can use MWD or afterburner without losing too many bonuses, while 1 is so inflexible that an afterburner would just be stupid.

It shouldn't be like this, but you're far better off just training to use one of the other T3 destroyers if you plan to use a destroyer sized afterburner. I planned ahead and did just that.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2015-07-07 22:13:25 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
I'll just use one of the other three T3 destroyers that doesn't essentially restrict your choice in afterburner or MWD. By the way, I didn't realise that poor game design choices equated to class roles these days.

So far there hasn't been a single good argument as to why 3 out of 4 of the T3 destroyers can use MWD or afterburner without losing too many bonuses, while 1 is so inflexible that an afterburner would just be stupid.

It shouldn't be like this, but you're far better off just training to use one of the other T3 destroyers if you plan to use a destroyer sized afterburner. I planned ahead and did just that.

Maybe, JUST MAYBE, it's because your ******* afterburner would make it too easy for you to fly under the guns of anything bigger than you! Why can't you understand that this monster of a destroyer already is strong enough as it is?? Why can't you just try to deal with the situation like a mature and thinking person, instead of argueing about what you want and how much you do not give a **** about what's good for the game!

Teenager! Lol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2015-07-07 22:14:24 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
It shouldn't be like this, but you're far better off just training to use one of the other T3 destroyers if you plan to use a destroyer sized afterburner. I planned ahead and did just that.
Then why did you create this trainwreck of a thread in the first place ?? LolLolLol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#38 - 2015-07-08 01:31:59 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Jack Hayson wrote:
Even worse... you are forced to use hybrids on it or you won't be taking advantage of the damage bonus! Shocked
So if you want to use e.g. lasers you need to use a totally different ship. That's totally unfair and badly designed because I want to use lasers!!11


Awesome joke, really smart; you're clearly well educated.

Sarcasm aside, that's how it is with all tactical destroyers, there's no imbalance.


Point, Awesome Point Blink

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2015-07-08 13:53:19 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Sarcasm aside, that's how it is with all tactical destroyers, there's no imbalance.

> T3Ds
> No imbalance

Yeah.

I apologize, but this is what I was reduced to while reading this thread.

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-07-08 15:27:14 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Sarcasm aside, that's how it is with all tactical destroyers, there's no imbalance.

> T3Ds
> No imbalance

Yeah.

I apologize, but this is what I was reduced to while reading this thread.


I was refering to specifically the dumb point he made about each race not being bonused to use each others weapon systems.