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Aegis release - General feedback

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Author
Joanna RB
JoJo Industries n Shipbreakers
#41 - 2015-07-07 18:45:01 UTC
New web site at eveonline.com has no links to anything useful like the forums, the only way to get to forums now is to google eve online forums or use bookmarks. It looks like it is totally aimed at non-players looking to start playing as opposed to current players.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#42 - 2015-07-07 18:58:11 UTC  |  Edited by: SFM Hobb3s
Lena Lazair wrote:
Caiman Graystock wrote:
Please wil a developer acknowledge and explain why the Warhead Rigor Catalyst rigs now have a stacking penalty that isn't mentioned in their item description?


When the new missile systems were added, they mentioned they would be stacking penalized. There was some speculation that this might get applied to rigs as well as a baseline thing. Did this really go live with new stacking penalties for missile rigs?



Yes the stacking penalty went live and Rise is fixing the notes and rig/module description apparently.

Enjoy your Aegis missile nerf folks!
Strykr X
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2015-07-07 19:49:07 UTC
The new mobile depot and wreck overview icons are a step in the right direction, as is the reduction in unnecessary diversity of drone groups. I don't have any previous mental associations with the new depot & wreck icons, which is a very positive development compared to the Carnyx abomination. The old (Carnyx) depot icon looked like a vacuum cleaner and the Carnyx wreck looked like an ice cream cone I was chopping the head off of.

A fundamental rule of UI design is if you're intending people to glean any kind of meaningful information from only a glance, the element shouldn't resemble something that already exists in people's minds unless that association is helpful. For example, if the Carnyx mobile depot icon was used instead, for the mobile tractor unit, the thought process could be 'looks like a vacuum head'->vacuums suck stuff up->the item does something similar to a vacuum->the item is a tractor unit. But as a storage unit in space? Absolutely not.

I recognize nostalgia is powerful, so even though my compulsion is to lament the loss of the old BCU icon, the change makes sense and the new icon is pretty, much like the new damage control module icon introduce a while back.

Please continue fixing more overview icons that you ****** up royally in both form and function in the Carnyx release. Maybe the stargate icons next? Or the monopoly houses?
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#44 - 2015-07-07 21:01:27 UTC
I have removed a couple posts.

Quote:
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

Please be respectful at all times. Disagreeing on philosophy or direction is OK if you frame your arguments constructively and provide viable alternatives or solutions. Ranting or rambling is not OK.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2015-07-07 22:01:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Natya Mebelle
stoicfaux wrote:
Meh, seems like CCP had a problem with people following the Process. Which could imply that CCP's more experienced resources are focused on the upcoming sov patch which left little time for this release and/or resulted in inexperienced people running this release.
I wouldn't worry about the hiccups until it becomes a pattern.
You mean, a pattern like the last couple of months? Probably the entirety of 2015 and even dating back further? This includes around 6 previous releases. The amount of half-finished content changes has been staggering :c


Darkblad wrote:
Ryde Froyer of SCC created the orders: Tactical Destroyer in Metropolis. Role Playing Character (limited to 90 day market orders) but no actual "player" character.
Thank you for this find c: At least CCP has the opportunity to fix these things in the dirty way. Hopefully by next hotfix we'll be seeing proper NPC sell orders.


Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Dont forget stacking penalties were added to missile application rigs and this was not communicated in the dev blog.
My bad! You are right, I have forgotten to write this :D I also forgot to note how I'm liking the Cerberus design. It looks more proper, it looks more bulkier and less of this dangerously delicate thing the Caracal is.
Although I'm not sure if the stacking penalty thing wasn't a mere oversight on their end for the longest time that has been fixed belated.
I mean, like other things which have been forgotten for so long, like the old stats of the Ishukone Scorpion for example. All other weapon rigs have a penalty. There is no reason why the missile rigs should not have a penalty. Right?

There are 4 hybrid / energy / projectile rigs affected by stacking penalty: Rate of fire, damage, optimal range, tracking speed.
Missile launcher rigs were penalized at rate of fire, missile velocity and damage. Having penalties to "signature factor" and "velocity factor" absolutely makes sense due to the way missile applies damage. That would be like not applying a penalty to tracking and optimal range rigs of turrets.
That being said, there are still issues with missile rigs because they are still not in line with as much options as the turret rigs are.

BUT!
Let us look at drones for a moment. There are only TWO Drone rigs affected by stacking penalties: maximum velocity and sentry damage. No mention of optimal range, which was clearly penalized with the other turrets. And of course Drone Control range is not penalized either which certainly falls in the "effective range" category. And Repair amount also is not penalized for Drones even though other repair amount rigs for regular ships ARE penalized. Oh well.


I'm still disappointed how so little things have been touched from previous patches which were CLEARLY not finished. Especially the icons. Only because there are less people complaining doesn't mean the issue has gotten less of a problem.
There just comes a point when repeating yourself over and over again bears no meaning any more.


Edit:
Joanna RB wrote:
New web site at eveonline.com has no links to anything useful like the forums, the only way to get to forums now is to google eve online forums or use bookmarks. It looks like it is totally aimed at non-players looking to start playing as opposed to current players.

You mean... top right, "Eve Universe" -> Forums? I mean, don't get me wrong, I very much dislike the new eve online site as well. It is a stupendous resource hog and optimized for mobile devices instead of splitting the website for desktop and mobile use. But saying the Forums are unreachable is simply wrong c:
chmeee kzin
Raging Main
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#46 - 2015-07-07 22:15:28 UTC
ISD Decoy wrote:
I have removed a couple posts.

Quote:
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

Please be respectful at all times. Disagreeing on philosophy or direction is OK if you frame your arguments constructively and provide viable alternatives or solutions. Ranting or rambling is not OK.



Who is angry? "A free exchange of ideas" is not free when they are subject to censorship. The players in Eve pay for a service. The service as delivered this morning was sub-standard, Period! Is that constructive enough? Have a wonderful dayBig smile
Joe Gormley
Nemo Modicus Group
#47 - 2015-07-07 23:02:07 UTC
I'm very.. very.. disappointed that there has been little effort put into improving the icons.. In fact, given the outrage on this topic, why has CCP apparently kicked this topic into the long grass... ???

An update from the ICON team, regarding ICONGATE is long overdue...

Why is frigging neutral stuff now shaded BLUE??

Why is there marginal difference between hostile NPC, (rats), and Players with bad standings??

So much for improving situational awareness...

I would strongly suggest the DEV's whole ICON design philosophy needs revisiting as what is in game is not fit for purpose....

Very disappointed that CCP continues release more fluffy and glitter stuff, as this patch appears to be, whilst there is so much broken in game.. ( i.e. in the opinion of many who actually play the game)..
Someone at CCP really needs to take stock of where they are, as each new patch the quality of content is becoming poorer...

Kind of miss the team that took the time and trouble to fix the issues, rather that the wholesale problem creating chaos we have today..

Miss the DEV team that took the time to listen and fix the issues...

Quality over Quantity every time..

Remove the Icons as no fit for purpose!!

Julien Brellier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#48 - 2015-07-08 00:33:12 UTC
Terrible patch.

4 out of 5 new things added to the game not seeded properly (or at all)

New wreck icons almost impossible to see

Ishtar STILL not in any way fixed.
ACTUAL issues with Ishtar: tiny sig, T2 resists, high speed, battleship weapon.
Your fix: move 1 slot from mid to low, slow it down a tiny bit.
Pathetic.
Daemun Khanid
Corbeau de sang
#49 - 2015-07-08 00:42:59 UTC
Why exactly do we have a feedback thread? The aegis missile nerf and the new module icons should be all the proof we need that they simply aren't listening.

Daemun of Khanid

Blackadder V
Chaosborn Academy
#50 - 2015-07-08 05:00:15 UTC
"In March 2011, CCP announced EVE online has over 360,000 subscriptions, at the same time, they recorded 63,170 players logged in to the game at one time. They would often hit the 55-60k mark at primetime on weekends." (mrmeloni, mmorpg 7/14/14)

Today I see less than 17,000 online and it appears to be steadily dropping.

When I joined Eve as a player, I spent a few months learning the basics and I liked what I saw so I stayed. I didn't care for the constant griefing in high sec and the seeming indifference of CCP in accommodating combat players at the expense of the majority. In the real world the gankers would have been dealt with and if they hadn't been dealt with then there would be mass migrations just as is happening in the real world (Mediterranean).

I have to agree with the description of the overview as a train wreck since the overview became no longer fit for the purpose as the sheer variety of icons (brackets) simply confuse the issue. We are told that it cannot be rolled back as it is all part of the master dream. But there wont be anyone left to share this CCP dream if this is where and how you are leading us.

This morning I see that the latest patch seemingly contained more errors than fixes. The token gesture at the overview did not address the fact that it is no longer fit for the purpose and CCP have seemingly no intention of going back to the drawing board or rolling back. I suspect it is symptomatic of CCP over reaching themselves in pursuing their vision when they should be consolidating the existing players. As a player of a couple of years with two accounts I am not interested in the grand plan because I was happy with the game or I was until CCP started carpet bombing the sand box in pursuit of a dream which, I suspect, the majority of us do not share.

I am glad that I am not a shareholder because an extraordinary AGM would be on the cards.
Joe Gormley
Nemo Modicus Group
#51 - 2015-07-08 05:56:22 UTC
I don't know who's dream it is at CCP, but whoever's it is need to wake up as this years output from CCP has been nothing but a nightmare...



Miss the DEV team that took the time to listen and fix the issues...

Quality over Quantity every time..

Remove the Icons as no fit for purpose!!

Osaka Hibachi
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2015-07-08 07:40:11 UTC
It's Shark Week and the new Mobile Depot icon resembles a diving mask.

Illuminati confirmed.
Shon Anzomi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#53 - 2015-07-08 07:40:29 UTC
I wouldn't really dare to have a crack on CCU figures during the killing heat wave we have in the Europe and also vacation period.

Anyhow, my 0.2 ISK on the patch is, that after running some drone plexes, some of the drone icons are very very hard to see. Not the frigates, destroyers and like. But those other kind of drones that use thin, feathery "x" to mark them.

Drone nerf caused me to lose some 6% DPS on my Stratios which isn't nice but I still have no problems running them plexes.

What I now mostly enjoy is the client size and portability - I know this has been introduced while ago, but I think I had to say thanks for that now.
Darkblad
Doomheim
#54 - 2015-07-08 08:01:06 UTC
Joanna RB wrote:
New web site at eveonline.com has no links to anything useful like the forums, the only way to get to forums now is to google eve online forums or use bookmarks. It looks like it is totally aimed at non-players looking to start playing as opposed to current players.
Uhm, I don't think that's the case.

NPEISDRIP

admiral kerk
StarFleet Federation of Players
#55 - 2015-07-08 10:06:36 UTC
This sort of behavior has been going on for awhile, seems CCP cares little for us players and more for destroying the game for us!
it's like if you don't like it stick around it will change. are they trying to get old players to quit? all these changes that we had to endure when all the training time to get great and then CCP changes the rules to suit their motives and not one thought towards players who spent years training to achieve their status so CCP can remover them, and feel like don't like it then leave? Sad
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2015-07-08 10:26:48 UTC
Blackadder V wrote:
1) I didn't care for the constant griefing in high sec and the seeming indifference of CCP in accommodating combat players at the expense of the majority. In the real world the gankers would have been dealt with and if they hadn't been dealt with then there would be mass migrations just as is happening in the real world (Mediterranean).

2) I have to agree with the description of the overview as a train wreck since the overview became no longer fit for the purpose as the sheer variety of icons (brackets) simply confuse the issue. We are told that it cannot be rolled back as it is all part of the master dream. But there wont be anyone left to share this CCP dream if this is where and how you are leading us.

3) As a player of a couple of years with two accounts I am not interested in the grand plan because I was happy with the game or I was until CCP started carpet bombing the sand box in pursuit of a dream which, I suspect, the majority of us do not share.

4) I am glad that I am not a shareholder because an extraordinary AGM would be on the cards.
1) Why should they do anything against high-sec suicide kills, if that is what you call griefing? Yes, it is true that suicide gankers have more advantage mostly due to inferior Concord game mechanics and other tactical elements. If you mean other forms of griefing, like ninja salvaging or loot baiting... that is part of the game too. I neither promote nor condone such acts, and don't do them myself... BECAUSE it is a sandbox. And just like in the real world, players gather up and do something against the gankers... however, with less success than it would have been in the real world because again... game mechanics favour suicide gankers. There was some really good post from a Dev about this entire freighter and suicide ganker issue, but I don't have it handy right now, I'm sorry :c

2) There sure will be people left to share the dream with, but the question is how many and from what generation of eve players. Currently they are shooting down long term veterans who kept supporting the game for many years, as well as people who have just joined recently. I don't know what their goal is with that. Trying to get a fresher audience into the game? I don't think a fancy set of horrible icons will do that. And the question certainly will be, what KIND of players eve online wants, and what they want to be associated with.

3) I think we have to make a little difference here between the dream and the actual product. CCP surely means well, their intentions are good. But the way their intention was worked into (half) finished products, did not work so well.
Yes, the tutorial was long overdue for an update. No, opportunities are the completely wrong approach.
Yes, the old icon set could have used some improvements on visual and engine level. No, an entirely new icon set was not required.
Yes, the starmap required an update to include more features and faster usage. No, the new map does not deliver this.
Yes, Sovereignty system required a change because the way it was has just been broken. I like the idea of needing more activity to defend and use it, but it seems like everything favors the attacker now. We'll see how that story ends soon.
Yes, Drone boat superiority is still an issue. No, nerfing the Ishtar is not going to solve this problem. You have to look at Drones instead.
Yes, module tiericide was good in it's intention and did at least get things right for some modules. But others are rather left wanting with the way it was approached.
Yes, capital ships required changes to make playing with them more appealing and useful. No, Jump changes were not really the first thing that came to mind in order to address this.
...the list goes on. I could probably fill the entire post with "well meant, badly delivered" examples but I let it slide.

4) CCP Games is owned privately. I don't know how much they have to answer to their private investors and how big those investors are, but I don't think we have a case of "make this a money making machine or we shut it down" shareholder philosophy at the works here. Because if we had, Eve would have gone free-to-play a long time ago with all those goodies like... pay for extra training time speed. Or special decryption keys to open lockbo-... I mean strange specially sealed containers found randomly through all NPC wrecks. Let us not forget ships and modules which can only be purchased via Aurum, and not manufactured.


Shon Anzomi wrote:
I wouldn't really dare to have a crack on CCU figures during the killing heat wave we have in the Europe and also vacation period.
When will people finally learn, that the idea of "summer hole" is simply not always true in video game culture and in this case, eve online? There have been years (plural!) in eve where the player counter was RISING during the summer period instead of dropping.
The summer hole or "exam time" argument holds no water, and never will.
However, you can clearly see from the concurrent player counter when good patches or bad patches hit, and you can also clearly see when advertisement was rolling out a strong presence or not.
Right now, I'm sitting in this european heat wave. And playing eve, as it seems c:
Lara Divinity
Pidgeon Cartel
#57 - 2015-07-08 11:38:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lara Divinity
the icons in aegis r clearly an improvement except the rogue drone icons color a dark ish red wich seems to show up very faintly on overview other then that im pretty pleased about the icon update in aegis way better then the carnyx icon release bit sad that all drone ships have gotten there dda amps nerfed just to fix a problem to the ishtar.
dont really get the ballistic icon change n still have to get back on the missile changes but so far im more happy then with the carnyx release defently som improvent overall
Steijn
Quay Industries
#58 - 2015-07-08 11:39:00 UTC
i see that with todays patch we have teal NPCs and rouge Drones. What next, vermillion gates? ochre stations?
Deacon Abox
Black Eagle5
#59 - 2015-07-08 15:19:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Deacon Abox
Steijn wrote:
i see that with todays patch we have teal NPCs and rouge Drones. What next, vermillion gates? ochre stations?

CCP, please make it so.Smile Also, will have to pve some now so that I can enjoy the rouge drones.P Or maybe they will enjoy me.ShockedOops

CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting off button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.

Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#60 - 2015-07-08 16:48:58 UTC
Deacon Abox wrote:
Steijn wrote:
i see that with todays patch we have teal NPCs and rouge Drones. What next, vermillion gates? ochre stations?

CCP, please make it so.Smile Also, will have to pve some now so that I can enjoy the rouge drones.P Or maybe they will enjoy me.ShockedOops



lol, but I was understanding that the borders on these overview icons would be thickened for easier viewing?