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Rat aggression swaps in pvp situations.

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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#341 - 2015-07-07 14:00:42 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Big Cyc wrote:
https://zkillboard.com/character/1640069201/
https://zkillboard.com/character/231585667/

Cry, Close, L2P
both sides


What has that to do with anything? Its not impossible or even hard to kill pvers, but it forces you to blob or severely outclass them (which vs pvers means brinning the same class) which is an issue.


WUT?

You are Outclassing a PvEr by bringing the same class? That's what we over in logic land call 'matching', not outclassing.

You realize you look worse and worse with every passing post? The bottom line here is that you are kicking up dust on a non-issue, because you want to be able to do everything with anything, no matter how little sense that makes and despite the fact that when you play a game with other live people you need balance or those other people won't play with you.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#342 - 2015-07-07 14:05:02 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Big Cyc wrote:
https://zkillboard.com/character/1640069201/
https://zkillboard.com/character/231585667/

Cry, Close, L2P
both sides


What has that to do with anything? Its not impossible or even hard to kill pvers, but it forces you to blob or severely outclass them (which vs pvers means brinning the same class) which is an issue.


WUT?

You are Outclassing a PvEr by bringing the same class? That's what we over in logic land call 'matching', not outclassing.

You realize you look worse and worse with every passing post? The bottom line here is that you are kicking up dust on a non-issue, because you want to be able to do everything with anything, no matter how little sense that makes and despite the fact that when you play a game with other live people you need balance or those other people won't play with you.


It just shows that you know nothing of pvp, a even fight is a 50/50 fight, a 100/0 fight isnt even. If you bring a ship that wins almost 100% of the time you outclass him, pvers suck a pvp and a normal stratios can easily wreck a pve ishtar or vni. Its orbit at 500 and go afk easy.
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#343 - 2015-07-07 14:43:20 UTC
we should stop argueing about PvP topics with mission runners like Mike.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#344 - 2015-07-07 15:21:46 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Big Cyc wrote:
https://zkillboard.com/character/1640069201/
https://zkillboard.com/character/231585667/

Cry, Close, L2P
both sides


What has that to do with anything? Its not impossible or even hard to kill pvers, but it forces you to blob or severely outclass them (which vs pvers means brinning the same class) which is an issue.


WUT?

You are Outclassing a PvEr by bringing the same class? That's what we over in logic land call 'matching', not outclassing.

You realize you look worse and worse with every passing post? The bottom line here is that you are kicking up dust on a non-issue, because you want to be able to do everything with anything, no matter how little sense that makes and despite the fact that when you play a game with other live people you need balance or those other people won't play with you.


It just shows that you know nothing of pvp, a even fight is a 50/50 fight, a 100/0 fight isnt even. If you bring a ship that wins almost 100% of the time you outclass him, pvers suck a pvp and a normal stratios can easily wreck a pve ishtar or vni. Its orbit at 500 and go afk easy.


Heavy drones from an AFKtar would deal with a 500m orbitting stratios unless you tanked against his damage type which somehow also happen to be the one you need to tank to survive the rat in this site too. I wonder if those 2 fact are linked...

Fact is, someone just showed it was possible for a solo PvPer to hunt and kill ratters in sites which mean the rat aggro swap is not what has killed this gameplay. It reduced it by prevented paper fit from doing it but it's not impossible at all. I'm sure you can adapt if you get your fun out of hunting ratters. The options are there.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#345 - 2015-07-07 15:26:42 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
Big Cyc wrote:
https://zkillboard.com/character/1640069201/
https://zkillboard.com/character/231585667/

Cry, Close, L2P
both sides


What has that to do with anything? Its not impossible or even hard to kill pvers, but it forces you to blob or severely outclass them (which vs pvers means brinning the same class) which is an issue.


WUT?

You are Outclassing a PvEr by bringing the same class? That's what we over in logic land call 'matching', not outclassing.

You realize you look worse and worse with every passing post? The bottom line here is that you are kicking up dust on a non-issue, because you want to be able to do everything with anything, no matter how little sense that makes and despite the fact that when you play a game with other live people you need balance or those other people won't play with you.


It just shows that you know nothing of pvp, a even fight is a 50/50 fight, a 100/0 fight isnt even. If you bring a ship that wins almost 100% of the time you outclass him, pvers suck a pvp and a normal stratios can easily wreck a pve ishtar or vni. Its orbit at 500 and go afk easy.


Heavy drones from an AFKtar would deal with a 500m orbitting stratios unless you tanked against his damage type which somehow also happen to be the one you need to tank to survive the rat in this site too. I wonder if those 2 fact are linked...

Fact is, someone just showed it was possible for a solo PvPer to hunt and kill ratters in sites which mean the rat aggro swap is not what has killed this gameplay. It reduced it by prevented paper fit from doing it but it's not impossible at all. I'm sure you can adapt if you get your fun out of hunting ratters. The options are there.


And a startios easily tanks that, but nobodie ever doubted that pver/ratter can be killed. Thats not the issue, if i see a 2 month old caracal do a warpable anomaly i could take my curse and get a free kill with 0 issue, but i dont want that, thats boring is ****. What i want to to bring a t1 frigate and have a even fight, but due to how rats work i cant.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#346 - 2015-07-07 15:44:37 UTC
W0lf Crendraven wrote:


And a startios easily tanks that, but nobodie ever doubted that pver/ratter can be killed. Thats not the issue, if i see a 2 month old caracal do a warpable anomaly i could take my curse and get a free kill with 0 issue, but i dont want that, thats boring is ****. What i want to to bring a t1 frigate and have a even fight, but due to how rats work i cant.


Your T1 ship is not the right tool for the job. It's a damn nice tool but not the right one.

Sorry but if the situation was reversed back to what it used to be, you would get a free kill if your participation was enough to tip over his tank or nothing because you would warp off when losing.

If you do a more random approach where rat can swap but without the hard swap from E-WAR, then you will be dealing with casino effect where it will sometime work and other you will get wrecked which will just lead to what it is now. You won't go because sometime, the whole damn thing is out of your control.

You either get in a situation where they don't react at all or one where you T1 fig gets wrecked because they will swap at some point or another.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#347 - 2015-07-07 15:51:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Voidstar
W0lf Crendraven wrote:


And a startios easily tanks that, but nobodie ever doubted that pver/ratter can be killed. Thats not the issue, if i see a 2 month old caracal do a warpable anomaly i could take my curse and get a free kill with 0 issue, but i dont want that, thats boring is ****. What i want to to bring a t1 frigate and have a even fight, but due to how rats work i cant.


ShockedShockedShockedShocked

The stupid in that statement really burns.

It also verifies that you want your "PvP" to be practically free compared to your victim. By your own statement the current state in equivalent ships should suit you just fine.

Your entire threadnaught was about being unable to kill ratters because heavier ships could not make the trip and catch them, and lighter ships were shredded by the rats. Except that it's been shown that you can catch and kill in heavier hulls, and your own words talk about how there are t1 frigate ratters out there you could engage in lighter hulls.

Basically, you have nothing to cry about, because you can hunt in the hulls you want, so long as your targets are similar and you can survive the same space they are in, or you can hunt heavier prey in heavier ships. Diminishing Returns ensures that your investment need not match their investment at the upper end... I mean how much more can you want?
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#348 - 2015-07-07 18:04:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Hadden
Mike Voidstar wrote:


The stupid in that statement really burns.

It also verifies that you want your "PvP" to be practically free compared to your victim. By your own statement the current state in equivalent ships should suit you just fine.


you have no clue about pvp, you gotta nothign to tell about what burns and what not.

you can kill a battleship with a frigate or destroyer under normal circumstances if caught, nbd - in a mission or anomaly you cant because of fking NPC which are quasi protecting it.. thats not right.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#349 - 2015-07-07 18:44:39 UTC
Then why cry so hard?

If you can kill in a frigate, it should be all the easier in something heavier. If you can't catch a ratter, catch his defense. Or whatever.

Every argument you have made thus far just went up in smoke
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#350 - 2015-07-07 19:12:12 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
you have no clue about pvp, you gotta nothign to tell about what burns and what not.

you can kill a battleship with a frigate or destroyer under normal circumstances if caught, nbd - in a mission or anomaly you cant because of fking NPC which are quasi protecting it.. thats not right.


You have yet to say why it isn't right other than "I want easier kills flying cheap ships"

In the infamous words of video game history

"QQ"
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#351 - 2015-07-07 19:23:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Hadden
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Then why cry so hard?

If you can kill in a frigate, it should be all the easier in something heavier. If you can't catch a ratter, catch his defense. Or whatever.

Every argument you have made thus far just went up in smoke


a pvp advice from a mission runner with 0 kills on KB, always welcome. If I want a best raven L4 fit, I'd ask you.

your heavier stuff argument got covered 15 times already.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#352 - 2015-07-07 20:12:20 UTC
Except you are so elite you can kill anything in a frigate without effort if no rats are there. There are kills proving that heavier stuff can catch prey, and I am sure with your elite skills you can either continue with your frigate of doom or be just as effective with a heavier hull.

You can't have it both ways, with rats not mattering and that they be utterly destroying your game at the same time.
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#353 - 2015-07-07 20:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Mark Hadden
Mike Voidstar wrote:


You can't have it both ways, with rats not mattering and that they be utterly destroying your game at the same time.


thats why we are asking for a change, to stop rats defending the farmers.
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#354 - 2015-07-07 20:56:05 UTC
I have removed a post with ASCII art.

Quote:
13. Spamming is prohibited.

Spam is defined as the repetitive posting of the same topic or nonsensical post that has no substance and is often designed to annoy other forum users. This can include the words “first”, “go back to "insert other game name” and other such posts that contribute no value to forum discussion. Spamming also includes the posting of ASCII art within a forum post, or the practice of “thread necromancy” which involved bumping of old threads for no justifiable reason.

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#355 - 2015-07-07 21:01:30 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:


You can't have it both ways, with rats not mattering and that they be utterly destroying your game at the same time.


thats why we are asking for a change, to stop rats defending the farmers.


You have no justification. You can kill anything in a frigate already. You just said so.


Between your last few posts, and Wolf's last few posts, you have completely undermined every point you ever tried to make.
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#356 - 2015-07-07 21:03:08 UTC
Mark Hadden wrote:
thats why we are asking for a change, to stop rats defending the farmers.


ISD, apologies for my ASCII facepalm. It seemed like the only intelligent response.

Mark - it is working as intended. Either get a ship or gang that can handle taking some damage from rats if you are hunting miners, grab a stealthy ship and wait for the rats to all die, or hunt somewhere else. All you are doing is trying to hunt people where you can get extra DPS from NPCs.
Mark Hadden
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#357 - 2015-07-07 21:10:46 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:


You have no justification. You can kill anything in a frigate already. You just said so.

stop acting stupid or learn reading whole post.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#358 - 2015-07-07 21:43:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Voidstar
Of the two of us, at least I am only acting.


I read the whole post. All of them. I understand them completely.

You are just wrong. It's not your fault, you're just deficient. It's Ok.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#359 - 2015-07-07 22:37:50 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:


And a startios easily tanks that, but nobodie ever doubted that pver/ratter can be killed. Thats not the issue, if i see a 2 month old caracal do a warpable anomaly i could take my curse and get a free kill with 0 issue, but i dont want that, thats boring is ****. What i want to to bring a t1 frigate and have a even fight, but due to how rats work i cant.


ShockedShockedShockedShocked

The stupid in that statement really burns.

It also verifies that you want your "PvP" to be practically free compared to your victim. By your own statement the current state in equivalent ships should suit you just fine.

Your entire threadnaught was about being unable to kill ratters because heavier ships could not make the trip and catch them, and lighter ships were shredded by the rats. Except that it's been shown that you can catch and kill in heavier hulls, and your own words talk about how there are t1 frigate ratters out there you could engage in lighter hulls.

Basically, you have nothing to cry about, because you can hunt in the hulls you want, so long as your targets are similar and you can survive the same space they are in, or you can hunt heavier prey in heavier ships. Diminishing Returns ensures that your investment need not match their investment at the upper end... I mean how much more can you want?


No my entire thread was about how rat agressions swap make no sense and favor big ships way more then small ones. Also stop the retardation about investement, or you end up in the my tracking titan should roflstomp everything cause i risk so much. Isk inn that is irrelevant.

My issue with this is purely that if i undock in my home system and see a ratter in an anomaly in a ishtar (which has happened very often) i cant give him a gf in a svipul but that i have to gank him and that sites protect the ones running the sites which makes no sense.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#360 - 2015-07-07 23:22:41 UTC
So you were lying about having to travel as well? You can't undock in your home system and get a kill from a guy already there without NPC help? You can't be bothered to bring an appropriate hull out of your hanger?

Eve may be a little too hard for you.