Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Bumping is very easy to counter.

Please answer this one question for me. Are your ships free because you've mined the minerals yourself?

Besides, eliminating enough DPS of a gank fleet can fail the gank.

Nope, its very easy to both avoid and get out of. The only cheese around here is having concord arrive out of nowhere in ships that are impossible to kill, impossible to avoid and impossible to tank and then saying gankers have free reign (not you saying this).

Of course you do, that's how selfish self interest works.

Tank the freighter.
Bring friends in logi.
have said freinds rep you.

If 200+ man null fights have issues breaking a couple or 5 logi every 30s, the average, or even well set-up gank camp has no chance. hyperdunking can be countered innumerable ways, etc.

1. Wrong and you know it. If you pointlessly blinged your free ship, that is your stupidity, a symptom of ganking being over-enabled due to the fact that gankers don't care about the cost and bling away with no remorse, demonstrating the worst of traits usually attributed to carebears.

2. The only issue I have with the whole mess is that ships worth billions are trivially gankable by ships not worth a million. They can be frigate killers or pellet guns, the problems are FREE and EASY, not what they are supposed to do outside of ganking. If they weren't free, there would've been much less problems with it. I have next to no issues with the talos or nado gank, despite them being even easier.

3. Gankers lose free ship and thus are loss immune. Killing a thousand of those doesn't rack the cost up to a single freighter.

4. Since every ship is trivially gankable, it's the gankers own stupidity to pick a target they fail to gank. Since you only lose free ship, it's not a problem if they went full ****** and missed. No sane amount of friends can prevent an overkill gank.

5. Since every ship is trivially gankable, not being ganked just means gankers were lazy this time, which is not something any pilot can influence.

6. I resort to name calling only because (in my experience) it drastically improves reading comprehension of people who can't understand things being explained to them 5 times without name calling. And as far as I can tell, it worked this way in this thread too, which means I'm keeping the practice, whether I like it or not (and for the record I'm not too fond of it, but haven't found anything more effective when dealing with idiots).

1. No not wrong and I said ignoring the cost of fitting. At least read what I wrote please.
They are not free. Fact.

2. Organised group play will mostly aways give a far larger advantage than solo play. The funny thing is in this situation, duo play makes group play advantages negligible
Oh and they are not free.

3. If they were free, no amount would equal the cost of a freighter. But they are not free and we fall into group play again.

4. It's not a players choice how the loot fairy works. It's not the gankers choice, that the freighter may have a group of friends close to help. The point is a plan sometimes doesn't survive first contact with your enemy. Things can and do go wrong.

5. No. Not being ganked means you are a part of the norm. If you happen to have travelled through a gank hotshot and have not been ganked, you did it correctly and most likely with friends.

6. There is no excuse for name calling. It is a weak tool used by those with a weak argument.

Still waiting for this free ship in a gang of 20 that can kill a freighter before concord arrives.

Couple points I feel like making:

1) Use a minmatar recon ship like a hyugin/rapier. At level 5 you can enjoy a 56 km web cold
(fed navy, use 3+ and off that freighter goes), easily web a freighter from anywhere on the gate. You can still be bumped but atleast you don't have to travel before you web.

2) IIRC you get free catalysts from one of the gallente newbie missions. No idea with all those changes to NPE if this is still the case. Still that's..30 min or so for a barely 1 million isk ship....Better ways of getting one but they CAN be free. Fittings are another story.

3a) If you're already bumped you can use a speedy MWDing frigate in the same fleet and attempt to get the freighter to warp to it. This obviously can get countered by the bumper changing your direction, but it's still an option.

3b) I haven't tried this but I suppose you could use a Mach with a MWD and MJD. Freighter gets bumped, you hit approach and also MJD. After the jump you're already at top speed then OH your MWD and have the Freighter spam warp to as soon as you get close to 150km out. With MJD Operation 5(lol) it activates in 9 seconds, which is ~11 km/s? That last 50 km though not sure if a speed fit mwd frigate will still beat you. To lazy to do the math/fit.

4) Smart bombing BS could work depending how close you are to the gate. More then likely though Concord will be paying you a visit in high sec because you hit a non valid target. You might save the freighter though?

5) Mass Applicator seems interesting. Increasing mass though would just reduce how much you're bumped back, although it's a moot point because 101% guarented gankers would use it to buff their bumps. Would make rolling Wormholes even easier without having to fit that higgs rig.

5) Remote warp stabs would probably see by "solo" pvpers. Oh noes I'm losing and tackled, send in the remote warp stabs!......Also a very good way to troll people in hi sec, if it comes with the targeting range/locktime debuff on the applied target...........buahahahahahahahaha. Sorry just makes me laugh thinking about this.

6) Shield/Armor/Hull sacrifice....That module makes no sense in a sci-fi game, fantasy sure but sci-fi?......No... hold on let me peel off some of my armor/hull and duct tape it to your ship on the fly. Shield, I could maybe see as it wouldn't be to far off from Remote shield reps. Instead of using Cap it uses your shield hp.

edit - For the record, I'm against bumping. I find it silly that massive space ships collide and bounce off each other like rubber balls. I'm all for damage being done in a bump. Concord need not come for a mere traffic accident, but just Imagine a Mach ramming a frigate and pop.

I think it would be more realistic if CONCORD went to low and found the gankers that were ratting and repping their sec status and killed them there. Or when they're blithely going through highsec in their pod, sometimes they get locked and pointed unexpectedly for a few minutes and are vulnerable. It's too easy for gankers to travel in highsec right now, IMO. That they can continue to travel to and set up shop in Niarja almost unmolested at a safespot with a negative ten secstatus until they gank another victim has always seemed kinda lame to me. Especially since you have to go through higher-sec space to get there.

In my view, a big appeal to ganking is the chance to ruin someone's day whenever you're in the mood. There's 1000s of targets, so a gank fleet can supply, form, wait for the next target, attack, try to loot, hope for tears and have a good laugh, maybe even profit. Then they can just go do other stuff. It's what I mean by "play". They choose to play a particular game and then go play it. No waiting (maybe briefly for a good target), not a whole lot of risk of it being messed up by anyone else. The shipper has the foot on the other shoe: they have decided to play and either can't ("just avoid Niarja if there's gankers there"), or get unlucky and lose their stuff. (Yes, the smart ones are much, much less likely to be unlucky, but that means nothing during Burn Amarr.) I don't want the danger of piracy in Niarja to go away, I'd just like to play as the shipper trying to get through when I feel like playing that role. You can still gank me if I (and my friends) screw up, just like you can lose a target if you screw up. Right now there's very few ways to do this, especially with respect to bumping and alpha damage from BSes.

Also: This is part of the highsec corp frustration with wardecs. The deccing corp goes on the hunt whenever they want to in the week they've paid for. The target corp just loses a week of playtime. I know the wars are required as part of EVE, but the disproportionate impact of these wars has never seemed entirely fair to me. There's no way to fight back except by delivering exactly the content the deccers are paying for. If you give them fights, they'll renew their dec. Most corps have a standing rule that during a dec the only way to "fight back" is to disappear so no bad losses show on the killboard (which encourage more decs) and no ISK is gained by the current dec (making it unprofitable to renew it). I can predict that in the next few comments in this thread someone will say "just use an alt and do something else". In my own corp the refrain is "I just JC down to null and PvP for a week". That is my POINT. The dec means the deccing corps gets to play their style of play for a week, any week they choose, and play their desired combat game, at any moment during that week they choose. The target has no such freedom, it's just a random interruption to their chosen style of play with no real way to fight back. Docking up and hiding isn't FEAR, it's POLICY because it's the only way to avoid decs that go on so long highsec corps cease to be able to even play at all.

Even in a wardec, the ability to ensure a high value target escaped would reduce the size of the killmails and the profit motive for a corp that was organized. Defensive play that takes mods, investment, time, teamwork, but isn't "shoot them before they shoot you" is NEW gameplay. I just don't understand all the antagonism to this idea. The AFK idiots autopiloting through Niarja (who are the main motivation for gankers and highsec deccers) will still be there for you. The only difference is that I can still play the game the way I want to play it, when I have a precious few hours out of RL to do so, fighting back, without becoming a ganker or highsec PvP pilot myself. Many of you think this is illegitimate play or that EVE is supposed to make this style of play impossible. I disagree.

I often wonder if there were a way for "highsec" residents to go hunting gankers as a kind of CONCORD event. Any realistic police force or "sovereign" faction like Amarr would be proactive and pursue the most notorious criminals in force. There's really no mechanic for players to be part of such a police action. The only real option is to form up a fleet and go hunting in low/null. In low, at least, doesn't that mean my own sec status would suffer? How would my corp (doing a periodic API / killboard check) be able to tell that I wasn't just another ganker?

Also, I can't stress this enough: any suggestion that "turnabout is fair play" where we can gank the gankers ignores the very real, very necessary constraint that highsec corps do API checks and will not admit, or will eject, players for even one highsec gank. It doesn't matter if it's a retaliation or justified or "fighting back". If they don't do this, they get infiltrated by accounts of players who like to gank. One day they log in to mine or move a shipment and one of their members ganks them all. The best defense against this is to ensure not one gank exists in the corp, ever. If they PvP (which my corp does) it's always in null.