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RWM Play Station Wallets buying advantage in DUST is NOT gonna buy advantage in EVE ??

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#61 - 2011-12-30 11:07:47 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Nova Fox wrote:
Didnt they say they are going to do the same free expansion cycles as eve?

Yes. It is one of the main features that sets it apart from the rest of the herd.

…and which will be their version of the BlandShooter 2011™ (now with four more shades of brown and two more knobs on your red dot sight compared to BlandShooter 2010™) kind of yearly releases to keep the franchise going.
Graic Gabtar
The Lemon Party
#62 - 2011-12-30 11:11:49 UTC
OP - DUST will sink like a rock. It will work about as well as effectively as the NEX store.

I think EVE will be safe from MT based on it's fail.
Thomas Gore
Blackfyre Enterprise
#63 - 2011-12-30 11:42:01 UTC
Dunno about you guys but if DUST 514 shapes up to be good (from the technical point of view) it'll probably be a reason for me to go buy the PS3.

Yeah it sucks to be PS3 exclusive and I'd rather have it on the PC, but **** me if I'm going miss this one. I love FPS games and I like EVE. I'd probably play both, depending on the mood.
Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2011-12-30 12:29:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Grideris
Seriously guys. This thread makes me cry. I just can not believe the amount of ignorance that some people are spewing here. It's almost as if people are just crying at the first sign of change without looking at what's happening!

I wrote a massive walls of text, but the forums ate them. So I'll just leave you the TL;DR: DUST 514 is to FPS games as EVE Online is to MMORPGs. If CCP nail the game mechanics themselves, then where we're going, we won't need any roads.

If you have particular issues about DUST 514 or questions, ask me. Chances are, I know the answer if we've been told anything about it. I've been following every single scrap of information since the original press release. I'm also an administrator over at www.dust514.org - the unofficial fansite that's still a strong contender for #1 on the Google search results. I know what the hell I'm talking about.

http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com -** the** blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#65 - 2011-12-30 12:36:23 UTC
No no no grideris you got that quote quite wrong.

We are are going there ARE NO ROADS.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Sadayiel
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2011-12-30 12:40:48 UTC
Grideris wrote:
Seriously guys. This thread makes me cry. I just can not believe the amount of ignorance that some people are spewing here. It's almost as if people are just crying at the first sign of change without looking at what's happening!

I wrote a massive walls of text, but the forums ate them. So I'll just leave you the TL;DR: DUST 514 is to FPS games as EVE Online is to MMORPGs. If CCP nail the game mechanics themselves, then where we're going, we won't need any roads.

If you have particular issues about DUST 514 or questions, ask me. Chances are, I know the answer if we've been told anything about it. I've been following every single scrap of information since the original press release. I'm also an administrator over at www.dust514.org - the unofficial fansite that's still a strong contender for #1 on the Google search results. I know what the hell I'm talking about.


Nice chunk of info, and yep i can agree you made the dust514.org just 2-3 days after CCP announced the game if i recall correctly.


Now a couple of hints for those worried.

Dust screws up your planets in 0.0, bad thing you need to do an extra haul to get fuel blocks from empire...

Dust players overfeed with Isk can be gamebreaking in matchs!!! (it's a FPS any ****** with luck can Headshot you with starting pistol at LVL 1, not matter how fancy or thick your armor/guns are )
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
#67 - 2011-12-30 12:43:50 UTC
Quote:
... reconcile with the attitude that one gets from CCP that one will never be able to buy serious advantage in EVE with RWM.


Implying dust will have a serious impact on EVE overall....

I don't see it hving much impact on anything as if made powerfull enough to really affect EVE it'd basicly be a case of massively trolling pretty much anyone that COULD be affected. Would lead to too much QQ and people rage quitting because they're getting spanked by stuff they have little to no control over. (The potential for metagaming when you remove things to another platform entirely exceeds even the number of spai alts/turncoats we see in EVE today, gl finding anyone other than purely you EVE corpmates that you can trust in dust) Leads us on to more likely scenario where hardly anyone from EVE bothers seriously getting dust players involved and dust becomes all about the 'quick match' fighting factional warfare planets...


On completely unrelated note, dust players dropped onto planets by dropship?? Really?? Ok it might seem like a nice idea to hide an epic loading screen so you can save on doing a bunch of optimisation there, does anyone seriously think the average (or even fairly patient) console player is going to be happy waiting the time it takes to undock in EVE and do 1/2 jumps to load each level? (Assuming ofc they were being staged from somewhere so close to target.) Unless the dropships are basicly large frigates (some are capable of carrying a dozen or so people iirc) it'll take long enough peopl will assume the games crashed and restart, or just get bored waiting and go play something else.

Oh and no I'm not completely against dust out of bias, I think it could be a cool idea, I just don't see it working vs the CoD/BF behemoths at all, and only give it a very slim chance of actually surviving seriously with a small niche of its own at all because of how often quite well made (no certainty AT ALL dust will fit that description) FPS games fall by the wayside.
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
#68 - 2011-12-30 12:47:12 UTC
Quote:
(it's a FPS any ****** with luck can Headshot you with starting pistol at LVL 1, not matter how fancy or thick your armor/guns are )


You've clearly never played a hilariously badly balanced fps where it takes multiple headshots to fell guys with standard armorP
Hopefully they wont screw it up THAT badly but you never know...
Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#69 - 2011-12-30 12:49:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Grideris
Sadayiel wrote:
Grideris wrote:
Seriously guys. This thread makes me cry. I just can not believe the amount of ignorance that some people are spewing here. It's almost as if people are just crying at the first sign of change without looking at what's happening!

I wrote a massive walls of text, but the forums ate them. So I'll just leave you the TL;DR: DUST 514 is to FPS games as EVE Online is to MMORPGs. If CCP nail the game mechanics themselves, then where we're going, we won't need any roads.

If you have particular issues about DUST 514 or questions, ask me. Chances are, I know the answer if we've been told anything about it. I've been following every single scrap of information since the original press release. I'm also an administrator over at www.dust514.org - the unofficial fansite that's still a strong contender for #1 on the Google search results. I know what the hell I'm talking about.


Nice chunk of info, and yep i can agree you made the dust514.org just 2-3 days after CCP announced the game if i recall correctly.


Now a couple of hints for those worried.

Dust screws up your planets in 0.0, bad thing you need to do an extra haul to get fuel blocks from empire...

Dust players overfeed with Isk can be gamebreaking in matchs!!! (it's a FPS any ****** with luck can Headshot you with starting pistol at LVL 1, not matter how fancy or thick your armor/guns are )


Well, I didn't actually make it - that honour belongs to Eddie Gordo. I just take care of the day to day administration of the site.

TheLostPenguin wrote:
Quote:
(it's a FPS any ****** with luck can Headshot you with starting pistol at LVL 1, not matter how fancy or thick your armor/guns are )


You've clearly never played a hilariously badly balanced fps where it takes multiple headshots to fell guys with standard armorP
Hopefully they wont screw it up THAT badly but you never know...


They've got some different dropsuit (read: armour) classes. I'm pretty sure it will take a lot more than a single headshot from a pistol to bring one of the heavy dropsuits down. Headshot from an anti-tank railgun on the other hand - I can see that working.

And on the staging part, all you have to do is move the clones into the region. That's what the war barge is for. It carries all your gear, and it's a big ship. Then the DUST marines just clone jump to the war barge/MCC and BAM - straight into the fight. No waiting in someone's cargo hold for an hour.

http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com -** the** blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#70 - 2011-12-30 12:51:00 UTC
I read that quote as: People who are more casual players can keep up by buying weapons and vehicles (That can be purchased with in game currency) with RWM.

Thats not very good but its still no where near as bad as YOU MUST PAY REAL MONEY TO HAVE A FIGHTING CHANCE

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Signal11th
#71 - 2011-12-30 14:34:36 UTC
J Kunjeh wrote:
Signal11th wrote:

Unfortunately the game already has an air of failure about it which is a shame.


Lolol...good stuff. You must only hang out on the Eve-O forums, eh?


And yet you bring nothing forth apart to obliterate that argument except to throw a pointless insult my way? Very mature

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2011-12-30 15:13:48 UTC
Chevy Hakoke wrote:
This may be CCP's Waterloo. I seriously think someone (probably the same people who said Incarna was a good idea) told the executives "HEY FPS GAMES ARE ALL THE RAGE, AND THE CONSOLE HAS MORE GAMERS THEN THE PC... SOOOOO
CONSOLE+ FPS WILL BRING THE BEST OF BOTH WORLD'S TOGETHER... THIS CAN'T FAIL, YOUR GONNA MAKE TONS OF CASH"

Reasons Dust will fail.... horribly

REASON 1
Most FPSes usually flop because the market is saturated with them, and if they do well its very short lived.... so what happens when DUST players move on?

REASON 2
FPSers have little patience, they want instant gratification NOW.... you think they are gonna wait for you to pick them up/drop them off? You think excuses like "Sorry they set up a bubble" will make sense to them? Eve is a game of patience, FPSers don't have that

REASON 3
FPSer are known to be cheap... if you mention anything about a PC they will say "Yeah right, so I have to buy a thousand dollar computer just to play a $50 game?" So I can only imagine how they will react when they see the game ask them for real money just to stay competitive

REASON 4
If DUST doesn't get a 9 or higher on the gaming review sites, forget about it. According to FPSers that game has been deemed unplayable, I mean look how they rage when a popular game gets a anything lower then a 9.5. I doubt DUST will get a 9 since its treading on sacred HALO territory (Space FPS). Not to mention the first ever pay to play FPS on consoles will lose BIG points come review day

REASON 5
As touched upon in reason 1, players WILL LEAVE
Eve's "Wait 2 year until you can be effective" leveling system WON'T WORK in the FPS console world cause console players want to be LEET NOW, not a year.... or even a week from now. When they do move on, what happens to Dust?

REASON 6
From what I hear, you have to be dropped off at a Planet by another ship.... tell me what alliance/corp would let a hostile even close to his space, let alone let them land a force there? Even if they do land, how will they be reinforced since now the whole corp/alliance knows where the landing party is a will send in an army of guys to instantly wipe them out. Wheres the fun in that for the FPSer?
Land-See little to no resistance-Have reinforcements cut off-Get overran/Repeat

REASON 7
According to what I'm hearing the only thing DUST players will fight over are Planets. Have you ever heard of a EVE war that was over Planets? You notice that most Planets aren't even occupied with CCs. Even if you did have the option to take Tech Moons, how long would that last? Since friendly ship won't be able to use the planet/moon/station (Refer to Reason 6).
If thats the main attraction for DUST then you can count it a failure before it even comes out.

REASON 8
No PC... REALLY?
The place where 100% of you revenue comes from will be completely cut out in favor of consoles? I heard the argument that too many EVE players would stop playing EVE and start playing DUST instead. All I have to say to this logic is WTF

Something tells me the person who said Incerna was a good idea also came up with the logic to cut off its 100% source of income and bet big on CCPs first venture into consoles. I mean why would you basically force your bread and butter to have to put up $300 instead of just making the game for PCs ( I mean thats kinda where CCPs income comes from)

Overall it seems DUST514 will be a game about taking PI, Moons, and possibly stations from other people.... thats pretty much it. And FPSer just want to shoot things now.. not be called into battle "if" something happens. CCP should just focus on EVE and stick to the PC

-My 2 isk


CCP listen to / hire this person

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
IGNATIUS HOOD
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#73 - 2011-12-30 16:24:41 UTC
Nova Fox wrote:
Dust is a different animal from the standard FPS. the reason why the FPS market goes from game to game becuase there reallly arent that many good ones. Same maps over and over again, nothing changes the whole reason why its short becuase there isnt anything left to do or the game just utterly sucks (Im looking at you terminator and jericho and bullet storm even) but is this really a console FPS problem? answer is easily no its always has been a Game problem since... 1984? Game runs out time to move on.

DUST 514 however has something special, its capable of moving on, even wtihout the developers, or modders or tweakers.
DUST 514 can move on because they will have an assest no other shooter ever used before. The players themselves.

There is not another shooter in the world that does this.
There is not another shooter where I can answer you what is next because its something we want to do.
There is not anther shooter where my answer can be so easily interrupted by someone elses answer which can be just as fun or that one absolute terrifying moment of dread.

This isnt red vs blue
This isnt allaince vs horde
This is not heros vs villans
This is you vs the whole amarr damned galaxy.
You decide who to work with.
You only make the plans you can afford to risk.
You will have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
You will only trust the guy next to you as far as you can shoot him from.
You will have a plan to worm your way to the top
and if you are lucky enough you will hopefully have a plan on staying there.

History.

Who was the david that shot down golaith's titan down in the battle of PCR-8 IV?
Who was the heros that defended the lone communications tower that was so critical to coordinate the defense of Faythbolis preventing its invasion?
Who was the scoundroul that robbed the Allaince's entire Armory?
Who was the Liar, who sold you the worst gun in the history of instellar warfare under the guise of the world's most powerful prototype?
Who was the betrayer that ended the most powerful mercanary corporation in the history fo the game?
What was the homeworld you fought for months on end to defend and only to lose.
Does that scar still remain there the ache and pains it caused to lose it.
Will you ever get around to fullfilling that promise to return one day?
To restore her to her former glory?
Or will you burn it all to the ground?

Names will rise, battles will happen, people will talk, some will look up, some will look at the backs of others charging ahead only to follow, some will leave but those who stay are staying for the long haul for there is only one direction for them to go, Foward and amarr damn any soldier, mercenary, tank, fighter, tower, or even a demigod to get in thier way.

Welcome to eve online my friend. Welcome to eve online of these ammar forsakened grounds, enjoy the smell of freshly ashened plasma lands in the morning, for that my friend will be the smell of victory.

edit
I should probably this reworked out a bit get it better smoothed out and present it again as a manifesto or something I dunno. I like it.



I think you're right, but also I think you can add the fact the the Meta-Game in Eve is probably one of the strongest Meta-Games of any MMO period freaking dot.

That will expand into Dust as well. There are actual goals to be achieved by the actions of the dirt grubbers in our universe. Especially if they can fight over stations in null sec. How ridiculous would sov warfare be if you had to deploy Dust 514 forces to Null starbases to gain sov? Add to the fact that this may just be another market open to EVE industrialists. Gun running could be quite lucrative if its made possible. Allow Dust folks to interact int he marketplace is going to be hugely critical to the success or failure of the game IMO.

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."   --H.L. Mencken
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#74 - 2011-12-30 16:28:55 UTC
I also have to wonder: how many of the “Dust will fail!!1” crew have played the only game it can be compared to — Planetside?
Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2011-12-30 16:37:52 UTC
I'll try to address all these points as best I can (responses in bold)
Chevy Hakoke wrote:


Reasons Dust will fail.... horribly

REASON 1
Most FPSes usually flop because the market is saturated with them, and if they do well its very short lived.... so what happens when DUST players move on?
The thing is, the way the gameplay works is more akin to an MMO than a traditional FPS. There's not just regular old progression - it's like comparing EVE to almost any other MMO out there. Having that tangible connection to the game world (i.e. your name on a planet) provides a massive incentive to stick around.

REASON 2
FPSers have little patience, they want instant gratification NOW.... you think they are gonna wait for you to pick them up/drop them off? You think excuses like "Sorry they set up a bubble" will make sense to them? Eve is a game of patience, FPSers don't have that
It's called one guy (or a small group) gets the war barge in position before the fight, and then everyone else jump clones to the warbarge. Then it's straight into the action. If the warbarge doesn't make it to the destination (all depends on the mechanics they implement) then you just jump into an instant action game or to ANOTHER warbarge you sent to attack somewhere else. You are doing smart things like that, aren't you?

REASON 3
FPSer are known to be cheap... if you mention anything about a PC they will say "Yeah right, so I have to buy a thousand dollar computer just to play a $50 game?" So I can only imagine how they will react when they see the game ask them for real money just to stay competitive
Anything that can be bought for AUR can be resold for ISK if you so wish. So long as you do well and earn some decent ISK, you can get the gear at no real life cost to you. Not to mention that good weapons in the hands of a veteran will be much better than the best weapons in the hands of a terrible player.

REASON 4
If DUST doesn't get a 9 or higher on the gaming review sites, forget about it. According to FPSers that game has been deemed unplayable, I mean look how they rage when a popular game gets a anything lower then a 9.5. I doubt DUST will get a 9 since its treading on sacred HALO territory (Space FPS). Not to mention the first ever pay to play FPS on consoles will lose BIG points come review day
Anyone that actually goes by the reviews on sites like that is just stupid. Honestly. Might add though on that front that they actually have some ex-DICE guys on the team (The guys that made Battlefield) so the mechanics are not going to be a steaming pile of crap.

REASON 5
As touched upon in reason 1, players WILL LEAVE
Eve's "Wait 2 year until you can be effective" leveling system WON'T WORK in the FPS console world cause console players want to be LEET NOW, not a year.... or even a week from now. When they do move on, what happens to Dust?
Well it might not be 2 years. Might be 6 months to max, maybe less. I'm sure that CCP will make sure there is plenty of things that you can do as soon as you start.

REASON 6
From what I hear, you have to be dropped off at a Planet by another ship.... tell me what alliance/corp would let a hostile even close to his space, let alone let them land a force there? Even if they do land, how will they be reinforced since now the whole corp/alliance knows where the landing party is a will send in an army of guys to instantly wipe them out. Wheres the fun in that for the FPSer?
Land-See little to no resistance-Have reinforcements cut off-Get overran/Repeat
That's not how this works. It's still set matches, with player limits to teams. As for overwhelming in the theatre at large, that's yet to be seen if that's possible. All depends on the game mechanics.

REASON 7
According to what I'm hearing the only thing DUST players will fight over are Planets. Have you ever heard of a EVE war that was over Planets? You notice that most Planets aren't even occupied with CCs. Even if you did have the option to take Tech Moons, how long would that last? Since friendly ship won't be able to use the planet/moon/station (Refer to Reason 6).
If thats the main attraction for DUST then you can count it a failure before it even comes out.
Planets are getting some serious upgrades, including some sovereignty affecting ones. You're going to want those planets come DUST 514's release.

REASON 8
No PC... REALLY?
The place where 100% of you revenue comes from will be completely cut out in favor of consoles? I heard the argument that too many EVE players would stop playing EVE and start playing DUST instead. All I have to say to this logic is WTF
The actual reason is that CCP don't want to put all their eggs in one basket. They want some experience with console building console games. You've got to start somewhere, and I think this is a pretty good start.

Something tells me the person who said Incerna was a good idea also came up with the logic to cut off its 100% source of income and bet big on CCPs first venture into consoles. I mean why would you basically force your bread and butter to have to put up $300 instead of just making the game for PCs ( I mean thats kinda where CCPs income comes from)

Overall it seems DUST514 will be a game about taking PI, Moons, and possibly stations from other people.... thats pretty much it. And FPSer just want to shoot things now.. not be called into battle "if" something happens. CCP should just focus on EVE and stick to the PC

-My 2 isk

http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com -** the** blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
Grideris
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2011-12-30 16:39:14 UTC
Tippia wrote:
I also have to wonder: how many of the “Dust will fail!!1” crew have played the only game it can be compared to — Planetside?


Actually, I just wonder if any of the "Dust will faill!!1" crew have actually looked at any of the information released by CCP about the game instead of just jumping to conclusions with no basis.

http://www.dust514.org - the unofficial forum for everything DUST 514 http://www.dust514base.com -** the** blog site with everything else DUST 514 you need
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#77 - 2011-12-30 18:14:38 UTC
I really do think that all the 'Dust will fail' doesnt even know that blogs and the sort exist about the game explaining how things are going to work.

Like the idiot above saying that only the people who pay with real money are going ot have an edge.

Ill tell you what, if you want to play a game that was like that play Battlefield Heroes (oh wait they took it down nvm) which was a very bad way to having a MT store in a shooter game where the weapons and the sorts where 'exclusive' to real money buyers a non paying person had no chance of obtaining.

Heres where real money buyers run into a nasty particular problem.

1 with effort time and skill a non paying person can access everything you can.

2 even worse a non paying person can obtain everything the paying person can via funding from sugar daddies in eve online.

3 chances are that if you are an idiot when it comes to outfitting your dust bunnies, a non paying person who knows whats up or not will always, always will have an advantage over you.

Bottom line this game is slowly begginning ot feel like a pay to 'lose' stratagey.

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Lili Lu
#78 - 2011-12-30 18:46:34 UTC
Camios wrote:
I don't see so many problems with DUST success.

There are tens of millions of console FPS players out there, if only 100k get somewhat hooked to DUST it will just work greatly, in my opinion. EVE is alive and well, even without a million of subscribers. What are the keywords of this success? Niche, hardcore.

In the end DUST will be a niche product, and it can survive this way, but only if the EVE connection is meaningful and, over all, necessary. if DUST is only linked to PI, then it will not be interesting enough, unless PI becomes crucial itself for sovereignty.

In short, EVE must change to accomodate DUST. PI must increase in importance for sov holding, making the Sov affair even more complicated. This will require development time, and there is no spare of it: highsec wardec mechanics need an urgent fix, lowsec and factional warfare have been promised a fix since so-long-ago-I-don't-even-remember-when, and nullsec has a really long way to go.

On a side note, notice in the linked blog how DUST514 is totally ignored.


Disclaimer- I'm a non-fps-playing doubter and still worried about the p2w possibilities, even though some of the posts itt have somewhat aleviated that for me.

Yes, it seems to me that Dust could easily be for more than PI and sov. With a good FW revamp it could be part of that. And there could be plenty of stock meaningless but maybe fun "missions".

Even though I'm a doubter I would not want it to fail. A failure could possibly take down EVE. And none of us want that. I hope it is a raving success without any p2w aspect internally or affecting EVE.
Chevy Hakoke
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#79 - 2011-12-30 21:21:08 UTC
Overall making a FPS for an MMO probably won't work out... a MMO is long term (years) and FPS is a few months to a maximum of 2 years (if its good)

If this were WOW this wouldn't work, so making a FPS on a less popular console that has even less FPSers on average, on a niche MMO sounds like a recipe for disaster

When this fails people are gonna say

WTF CCP you wasted years on a fail product while neglecting EVE
Reverand Pastor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2011-12-30 22:05:54 UTC
The Dustwillfail1!!1 Crew seem to be missing a very simple point. People love to shoot ****. I understand the "how is this going to affect me" worry but the bottom line is Dust has a excecellent chance of success as long as gameplay is solid and graphics are decent. If you are silly enough to ask how will there be communication you need to get a catscan or mri. I am so accesible by dozens of platforms, software, websites, phones, onstar that not being found is a impossible task. Drink some water, do a little yoga, achieve the moment of ZEN and calm the **** down. Oh and happy new year!!