Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I'm more surprised people haven't realized it's align time in prop mode is 1.987 seconds. Which, by the way, is important because it's the only T3D that can't do the "switch from propulsion mode to defense/sharpshooter mode to insta-warp" trick.

A 50mn fit can either go 5km/s (which takes 17 seconds to reach) and shoot out to 40km or shoot out to 70KM but go 200m/s and no damage mods. Not exactly the ideal sniper ship.


Caracal goes faster, is cheaper, does 114 more DPS, has 95km range, and can fit a tank.

Corm and harpy obviously do less DPS, but they both go faster and have 95km and 107km range respectively. The corm's also way cheaper.

Jackdaw goes 20m/s slower, has 101km range, and 3 less DPS.

The Hecate isn't the end all be all sniper boat. It's power comes in that it's extremely versatile. A non-sniper fit with rails will be able to fight in scram range with javelin, but still entirely capable of doing DPS to a ship that wants to fight at disruptor range, and a bit beyond that.


*continues to ignore the massive 50% increase in cap cost*
*continues to ignore that 40 sig instead of 70 is a huge deal*

I honestly don't know how I can get you to acknowledge the cap cost. The 10 turrets is balanced by the fact that they use 33% more capacitor, generate more heat, and the Hecate is extremely slow so it's more difficult to apply those turrets. The increased cap cost of the guns and reppers puts a ton of strain on your cap if you want to constantly run everything. If they remove the repping bonus they'd need to completely redesign the ship.

If the Hecate has an extra half slot built in from its cycle time reduction, the other T3Ds have a build in high-grade halo set and perfect off-grid Evasive Maneuvering links from their sig reduction. Your logic makes no sense.

When runing a cap booster for any serious *duke-it-out-fit*, keeping up the SAR or the SAR*1.5 is not a big deal. It just isn't. I run a dualrep astero that has less cap and needs even more to run both SARs and barely ever inject a charge. Until now, it feels about the same way for the hecate.

A svipul got a 50m sig, a 40m sig is a confessor - in defensive mode. My sabre got a 85m sigrad and still gets under a T3's guns without a web, so having a web and half the speed puts the hecate as even better. On SiSi stuff is hard to judge as you're rarely shot at by just one person, but going 1v1 with a cruiser is well possible, and 50 or 70 sig don't make much difference when you can tank him already without moving... (~500 ehp/s with links, no heat/exile)

So yeah, bite me. The way the hecate is going to be used (iE there's a cloaky 5km next to the target already to warp to, you drop combats and bounce down, you OH mwd one/two cycles to shoot right on top of him - you really can't screw this one up, if you're webbed at 13 you can still defense up and coast into range), there really is no need for even better sigtank or less cap usage.

Not really, the Hecate has Prop mode. 2500m/s beats them with the same 5MN MWD (Corm=1670, Harpy=2237). It will get even better with heat (3645m/s). D3's get the heat-damage reduction bonus too.

The Hecate has enough CPU and mid slots to fit 2 Tracking Disruptors and a Tracking Computer (86km+12km). One MWD cycle in Prop mode and switch to Sharpshooter. Target and activate the TDs (Optimal+1). You will force the Corm or Harpy to close range or flee. If it stays in range it dies.

The Harpy could fit 1 TD to use against you, but you have him beat. Like the Corm, it needs Sensor Boosters for targeting range. Hecate does not.



When the new Missile Tracking Computer/Enhancer modules are released the Jackdaw will be able to hit from much longer range (140km+ might be possible). Hecate will not out-snipe it, a different tactic is required. Missile disruption perhaps?

Alien Squirrel wrote:

The Hecate isn't the end all be all sniper boat. It's power comes in that it's extremely versatile. A non-sniper fit with rails will be able to fight in scram range with javelin, but still entirely capable of doing DPS to a ship that wants to fight at disruptor range, and a bit beyond that.

Agreed. Hecate is the premiere light-rail ship.
And you can do it all without faction/deadspace modules.
Sounds perfect for fleet doctrines...

There are more than enough counters to missiles, we do not need more of that ****. As soon as missiles apply damage we can talk, not before.

OK, but remember to add "I camp the inside of FW plexes like a bawss" just so people can calibrate their expectations.

Also, there will be no scram kiting with the Hecate. Your speed boost is only available with MWD on. So if you get scrammed, you're pretty much dead. The other issue is that this thing literally cannot orbit at close enough range for blasters with MWD on. Exit prop mode and your orbit actually swings even farther out because you are no longer getting the agility bonus. You can orbit close with MWD off. But that's asking to get killed.

It will be a superb long-point kiter with rails. It has no issues orbiting at 5k under MWD in prop mode. But I would suggest orbiting outside of scram range.

I love how people build extreme ships then hold them up as a point of comparison. To get 140km you are going to need 2x or 3x MGC II with range scripts, a SeBo with range script, and 2-3 range rigs. So yes if you want to make a gimped range fit for extreme range you can do it. But Jackdaws are still slow, so once caught such a ship is going boom real quick.

Light missiles and rockets apply pretty well, so I don't see that argument coming into play with small weapon systems as the topic.

Now back to reality. Rail fit Hecate will not be for long range sniping as a solo or small gang fit. I can see it coming into a specialized doctrine like slippery petes where a Hecate range rail fit warps in 70km off a target, unload a couple volleys in sharpshooter mode, switch to prop and fast align warp out and back in again from another vector.

The reason I don't like it is it often causes nerfs to the mainstream uses so that the rare extremes are not too abusive. While this is good in the long run it often causes nerfs that are never compensated for and thus ships with less extremes often end up in a better place for the more typical fit

I didn't say it wasn't valid, I just don't like where it sometimes leads. Also, people tend to remember extreme numbers and they get it in their heads that ship X has xyz stats because they saw a build that did that. Then they use those numbers to argue against average fit ship Y and cry about why it needs a buff or why X needs a nerf.

Plus I went and re-ran the numbers and it is not really an extreme fit when using faction ammo over Fury, depending on how the stacking penalties on rigs end up. So I retract my previous over reaction to the long ranged Jackdaw.

The Hecate needs a a extra low. It will not tank right. The fact it hull tanks makes the low slot setup even harder.
It won't have the lows to utilize armor and hull tanking correctly. CCP you need to take off 1 medium and a high slot
and put 2 extra lows to correct this.

Defense Mode:
33.3% bonus to all armor and hull resistances while Defense Mode is active
33.3% reduction to armor repairer duration while Defense Mode is active

Correction It needs 33 % armor repair amount. The duration will just chew up cap needed for
the blasters. It is the most useless idea you could have come up with. That might be useful
for a medium or large armor rep.

The Hecate needs 33 % to armor repair amount.
It should not rep the way shield boosters do. These ships are not caldari shield ships.

It will not have enough lows to adequately hull tank long enough to get in the necessary dps.
The best named hull rep will only get 54 hp repped every 20 second.
Even passive hull tanked. The ship alone will not last long enough
to get through the engagement. Not enough PG to support 5 high's and
the tank needed to last an engagement. It will not last an engagement with another
T3 destroyer.



And most small ships do more dps then that in 20 seconds.

You can see the serious issues there is for this ship currently.