These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Fiction

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Evelopedia Vandalism

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Publius Valerius
AirGuard
LowSechnaya Sholupen
#41 - 2011-12-25 11:32:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Publius Valerius
Morwen Lagann wrote:


It's one thing to create a fluff holovid series like Ken did with CPF Blue (see: Naga description), and another entirely to (using Publius' work as an example, again) slap together a huge diagram of how the Amarrian government is organized, or something similar for a megacorporation. The former is unobtrusive and doesn't affect anyone, really. It's a "yes, and..." to borrow the improv phrase. The latter isn't. That affects a ******* huge number of people. That takes time for CCP to go through and verify that it meshes with what they have already. Time for them to, if it does, go through it and clean it up, and tweak it as necessary to make it perfect.

Stuff that potentially falls in the latter category is a lot less likely to be pulled in its entirety on the first go. That doesn't mean that it won't at all - it very well might be in small manageable pieces that don't conflict with CCP's vision - but it'll take a lot longer to be vetted than a holovid series. Because really, that **** rots your brain. Didn't your mother ever tell you that?


Really... again.... I qoute myself again "let me out of your emotionial discussion, what is wrong with you people?"
______________________
Amarrian government. I qoute myself again "And again I said... dont see It as a page about 'central government', if you want make one.. I would love it and of course I would help.... and like I write later.... I was maybe a little to harrsh in my words... but still... I have the felling that we talk "to talk past each other" ehm... My plan was jsut to show the Emperor/Empress and her "trickle down" power... see it like as what can the emperor/empress do... and what her "trickle down sphere of influence", thats why the other coprs in the chart and ... some are not..." see the link which I have post: before ....like I said read ..... READ... ALL my stuff and my links... before starting... dont be lazy
http://backstage.eve-inspiracy.com/index.php?topic=2652.msg43880#msg43880

How many Times Have I to said that? How many Times Have I to said that? How many Times Have I to said that?

I have the feeling you had to see this page (Emperor) as something what describe the "whole thing", you wouldnt make your "Amarrian government" comment on the Privy Council page, because you are smart enough to see that this one page about one institution dont show the "whole thing". The same counts for my page.

About: "That affects a ******* huge number of people"... who?... Jamyl I and the stuff was like I describe in the link just copy past..... so NO WORK FROM PUBLIUS.... just copy and past from CCP STUFF.... PUBLIUS NO WORK... So Publius has no skin and dont careP..... I just ask myself why so many people, read the the header "Amarr Emperor" and thing of "Amarr governmental structur"? P
______________________
About this:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=564713#post564713 I qoute you: "What you, Publius and a bunch of other people write? That isn't canon." And like I said before go on my talk page:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Talk:Publius_Valerius_(Character) I havent wrote just one or two pages in fiction.... one or two pages in fiction.... one or two pages in fiction.... and yes I give a sh** about them. But If you want to talk with me.... use Popper and Correlation and dependence... like: Wyke or Publius had said f(x)... f(x) = X+Y thats why I write this:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=564713#post564713
like Gossen's laws http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gossen'27s_laws
.... one line which explains.... a whole book... no... whole books. As far as I see.... your post wasnt anwers on Wyke or me... none of them..... you discuss with the air as far as I see it.... because nobodys said.... X or Y about the Fiction portal.... Did you understand this?

Where comes this hate and attitude? Seriously and that on X-mas?
______________________
Another important thing....

What would you thing if I worte:

"Mr. X and Morwen Lagann are Y, beacuse if X".... and that X is pull out the air?

And then doesnt come an explanation (logical deductiv.... in Popper style like I said) so it comes again just a copy and past of the first comment... "Publius, my post wasn't directed at you. Hell, you were only mentioned as an example of someone who writes a lot of good stuff, some of which isn't canon. I didn't accuse you of saying it was at all - so the one putting words in someone else's mouth is you, not me."
And the next comment would be again.... in this direction. of the first one..... and again.... and again.... I said it isnt canon... so It affects nobody, how can read.... affects nobody, how can read... affects nobody, how can read.... plz stop it....
Like I said here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=507837#post507837
Repeating doest falsified reality... get it?....
Or in Popper term.... Y= My stuff... X= Canon.... so my stuff is "ungleiche Menge"/different quantities of X (see it as two circle which never touch each other)..... And I never said something else.... get it?
About: Your a attitude I qoute "This PF writer".... Frist Im not a Fiction writer.... I know.. I know.. but "two pages man"... from your 1000 or what everLol
______________________
But most of all: Read: ""let me out of your emotionial discussion, what is wrong with you people?" "let me out of your emotionial discussion, what is wrong with you people?" "let me out of your emotionial discussion, what is wrong with you people?"
______________________
I hope now... that CCP deleted my two fiction pages...it is to annoying.. two f***king pages: The Emperor.... and Khanid Family
Last one have I made because to test the chart for min and max shareholders.
See here: Talk:Lai_Dai_Corporation_NPC_Corp_v2_Test
or here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=361868#post361868

I would love to have those classes ingame. See here:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/376566/march-07-2011/joshua-foer
Aedeal
Bangarang Inc
#42 - 2011-12-25 11:48:55 UTC
Like I said, this isn't a finished project, it'll require a long time and a lot of work from all fiction guys & gals to get this into full shape. There's additional info to add, some of which can be taken from what is on the prior-wiki. It has to be CCP validated, remember that. They're not gonna just throw anything in there, whilst they know what CCP wrote is more likely to be correct.

There's also the lore changes, which will make various pieces of work obsolete. Again, the binary-systems-only jumpgates piece, the mismatching dates on the timeline.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#43 - 2011-12-28 12:52:42 UTC
I have to say I am impressed with the new format, looks good, and I already got quite a few empirical facts from the changes.. I agree this could take a long time, but, I for one like the changes I see..

Thumbs Up!

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#44 - 2011-12-28 13:57:12 UTC
All data base items need stubs so they are searchable.

Is there a way to bot added that text to all those items or will it have to be done manuelly becouse a page has to be created. I'll continue working on it but the sooner i get a yes or no the sooner I can work on something else.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Borascus
#45 - 2011-12-28 15:17:53 UTC
The new layout is AWESOME. Thanks for arranging everything in one place, the additions are excellent.


As for the contributions that are missing; I'm hoping they've been given something like a .old extension so that some of the commentary remains.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#46 - 2011-12-28 15:55:41 UTC
As for missing work, I would guess (hope) that it is not gone, merely being refined and incorporated where applicable.. To not use the really established player work would make no sense at all.. To me , anyway.. Straight

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#47 - 2011-12-28 20:15:06 UTC
Borascus wrote:

As for the contributions that are missing; I'm hoping they've been given something like a .old extension so that some of the commentary remains.


Click the Page's HISTORY tab. This list the previous versions of the page, e.g. Wormholes:History. Then click the date field to see the content at that date, e.g. the previous full/undamaged version of Wormholes page.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#48 - 2011-12-28 21:33:18 UTC
Notes

-Any one else having trouble logging in to the new Evelopedia from a second computer? Access is not linked to evegate forum access yet, it seems.

-With regard to wormholes( the access portal) and wormholes (the systems). The wormholes page is locked now as a Lore page.

-Anoikis has a unlocked page already it just needs to be filled in with the information about the systems and the type of wh that they connect to and writen up as the defacto source. The catch is that Anoikas will be locked soon to I suspect, so a "Anoikis-system specs" page will need to be used instead. Depending on the commen nominclature CCP decides to use.

-All database items need a redirect page so linking to them is easier. Once all database items have a page. Is this something that an edit bot can do?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#49 - 2011-12-29 11:43:17 UTC

Some suggestions.

Since most content pages are now locked and cannot be fixed by players there needs to be a way to flag problems. A new category "Article in need of attention" that can be added to the talk page with an explanation. The category could be used to quickly identify these pages for fixing.

There should be some differentiation for categories of NPCs. The major ones, event actors like Sansha, Hilen etc and minor bit-part players in missions etc. At the moment these are all lumped under "NPC".
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#50 - 2011-12-29 15:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Wyke Mossari
Credit when credit's due, the Earth and New Eden cluster pages are excellent.
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2011-12-30 01:50:06 UTC
I don't post on the Fiction Portal, but I do add to the Evelopedia a fair bit.
And I have to ask about the current plan with systems, namely, whether or not it's a good idea whether each system with additional info gets two entries, one for db-retrieved data here and another entry for in-game lore. Shouldn't they be merged into a single comprehensive article?
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#52 - 2011-12-30 10:29:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jowen Datloran
After trying to work with the fiction, as we do in A'J, I have stumbled upon some of the more negative sides of this fiction portal. As example, the old Lianda Burreau paged stated that her Heron was destroyed in w-space along with a piece of Trinary Data while the new one makes no mention of this at all. In fact, it states practically nothing about her.

That Lianda Burreau's Heron got destroyed along with the Trinary Data IS prime fiction and I need this info back for my paper to make sense. While I can support cutting away the parts that are player speculation it is extremely annoying that basic fact prime fiction is being cut from the evelopedia.

And yes, I am annoyed that it happened in the first place because it shows that the people doing this are not thinking about what they are doing or are following some strict protocol (if there never was an ISD news item about it it never happened) which is doomed to let some essential pieces of EVE history be forgotten.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

CCP Abraxas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#53 - 2011-12-30 19:02:48 UTC
Even briefer followup than the one in the dev blog thread (which you should totally check out as well):

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Shouldn't they be merged into a single comprehensive article?
No, item/system db and lore entries won't be merged, at least not in the near future. Two major reasons for this:
1) As I've noted, we want to avoid mixing non-lore stuff (including in-game minutiae, stats and attributes) with lore stuff, because the people looking for either one won't be looking for the other. (It would barely work even now, just imagine what it might be like once we take some a bunch of modules that people just want to look up the bloody stats on, and quadruple their lore lengths) , and
2) The db pages are autogenerated, so they're a hassle to work with, don't lend themselves to lore additions, could be overwritten at any time by a new db export, and all in all just aren't what we need. We're focusing on lore, its interconnections and its availability on the wiki and, later, in the game. DB pages don't fit in that scheme.

Jowen Datloran wrote:
doomed to let some essential pieces of EVE history be forgotten.
Don't worry. There is a simple method to re-instating any official lore (A'J or otherwise) that got left out of the mix: Add a note to the Discussion tab that earlier versions of this article contained official lore that got lost (and note exactly what it was, if you can). We'll review it when we can, and if we confirm it and decide that it's official lore, it'll get put back in.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#54 - 2011-12-30 19:34:13 UTC
CCP Abraxas wrote:
Even briefer followup than the one in the dev blog thread (which you should totally check out as well):

Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Shouldn't they be merged into a single comprehensive article?
No, item/system db and lore entries won't be merged, at least not in the near future. Two major reasons for this:
1) As I've noted, we want to avoid mixing non-lore stuff (including in-game minutiae, stats and attributes) with lore stuff, because the people looking for either one won't be looking for the other. (It would barely work even now, just imagine what it might be like once we take some a bunch of modules that people just want to look up the bloody stats on, and quadruple their lore lengths) , and
2) The db pages are autogenerated, so they're a hassle to work with, don't lend themselves to lore additions, could be overwritten at any time by a new db export, and all in all just aren't what we need. We're focusing on lore, its interconnections and its availability on the wiki and, later, in the game. DB pages don't fit in that scheme.

Jowen Datloran wrote:
doomed to let some essential pieces of EVE history be forgotten.
Don't worry. There is a simple method to re-instating any official lore (A'J or otherwise) that got left out of the mix: Add a note to the Discussion tab that earlier versions of this article contained official lore that got lost (and note exactly what it was, if you can). We'll review it when we can, and if we confirm it and decide that it's official lore, it'll get put back in.


Any way to bot update linking pages for all DB items. Without some way to auto link to them, with all additional info on seperate pages there is no way to search for them or preserve the information.
I still think a thin header like the one I suggested earlier would be the cleanist way to combine the two.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#55 - 2011-12-30 21:02:11 UTC
Have the database export dump into a format that can be retrieved with a Wiki Template call. That way the actual page for the system can be editable and have lore (structured to cater to both people who want stats and people who want words. It's not rocket science) while the hard stats are safely poured into some holding page without overwriting anything fun.

Amarrad - Amarr language project
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#56 - 2011-12-30 21:15:04 UTC
Horatius Caul wrote:
Have the database export dump into a format that can be retrieved with a Wiki Template call. That way the actual page for the system can be editable and have lore (structured to cater to both people who want stats and people who want words. It's not rocket science) while the hard stats are safely poured into some holding page without overwriting anything fun.

I think it already does, in a way. The problem is for the entry to show up in the wiki search with a link to the lore page for the item. Not a easy thing to do automaticly.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#57 - 2011-12-30 22:13:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
How do you want the german and other language pages handled. Will it be on the Evegate client level or do we need to attach a language category tag to all non english pages?

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Horatius Caul
Kitzless
#58 - 2011-12-30 23:37:13 UTC
Salpun wrote:
Horatius Caul wrote:
Have the database export dump into a format that can be retrieved with a Wiki Template call. That way the actual page for the system can be editable and have lore (structured to cater to both people who want stats and people who want words. It's not rocket science) while the hard stats are safely poured into some holding page without overwriting anything fun.

I think it already does, in a way. The problem is for the entry to show up in the wiki search with a link to the lore page for the item. Not a easy thing to do automaticly.
Not if you structure it like this (rather oversimplified):

(
[page1 type:hidden]
{Database stats for item id 00000000001}
[/page]
)

(
[page2 type:visible]
{{Get all the stuff from page1 - structure it in neat tables}}

Lore galore, untouched by database exports.
[/page]
)

To the end user, there is only one page that appears in a search, the page for the item. The page has both database information and lore. The database information is pulled from another, obscured page, which the datadump script can update without fear of overwriting any lore work.

If YARR or CCP thinks it's too troublesome to rework the database bot, you could probably save a bit of work but have a less elegant solution by letting the bot construct a page with a template tag that can pull in lore text from another page - basically the reverse of what I'm suggesting.

Amarrad - Amarr language project
Wyke Mossari
Staner Industries
#59 - 2011-12-30 23:40:10 UTC

Something really odd is happening with single quote and apostrophes. It seems that somewhere along the line some have been converted or there's been some incorrect character encoding

It appears that UTF character (C2 92) is being used is some case rather than the normal ASCII apostrophe (character 27).

This can been seen most readily in the Arek'Jaalan categories, with many pages missing.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#60 - 2011-12-30 23:40:35 UTC
Horatius Caul wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Horatius Caul wrote:
Have the database export dump into a format that can be retrieved with a Wiki Template call. That way the actual page for the system can be editable and have lore (structured to cater to both people who want stats and people who want words. It's not rocket science) while the hard stats are safely poured into some holding page without overwriting anything fun.

I think it already does, in a way. The problem is for the entry to show up in the wiki search with a link to the lore page for the item. Not a easy thing to do automaticly.
Not if you structure it like this (rather oversimplified):

(
[page1 type:hidden]
{Database stats for item id 00000000001}
[/page]
)

(
[page2 type:visible]
{{Get all the stuff from page1 - structure it in neat tables}}

Lore galore, untouched by database exports.
[/page]
)

To the end user, there is only one page that appears in a search, the page for the item. The page has both database information and lore. The database information is pulled from another, obscured page, which the datadump script can update without fear of overwriting any lore work.

If YARR or CCP thinks it's too troublesome to rework the database bot, you could probably save a bit of work but have a less elegant solution by letting the bot construct a page with a template tag that can pull in lore text from another page - basically the reverse of what I'm suggesting.


With the new wiki active hopefully they will spend the time to get a salution that works and addresses all the issues.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.