Intergalactic Summit

I commend your dedication and your conviction.

I would suggest, however, that the "symptoms" you're discussing are less a product of "northern liberalism" and more a product of the human heart, which is given to greed, selfishness and deceit. That is, in point of fact, why the righteous discipline themselves so rigorously to resist the temptations of their own lusts and desires.

I have visited Amarr. It is not just "northerners" that are spamming contracts and attempting to deceive others with quick-grab schemes and dishonest ploys. It offers you and yours no gain to attempt to pass this off as unwanted influence from outsiders when it is your own people falling to temptation.

Perhaps, instead of starting a message about killing open trade and a free market, it would be more prudent to focus on efforts to help reinforce the spirit of discipline, resistance to temptation and purity of soul that is the hallmark of your people and their faith.

I suppose a surface understanding of "northern culture" would look like this, sure. I'll concede that point. Though, I will state that there's quite a bit more to it than this, that's a topic for another thread.



Now you're discussing something else altogether. Here you're discussing market regulation to enforce product legality and availability, which does literally nothing for the scammers and spammers.

Also, it's a proven fact that regulating the public market is simply going to create and/or bolster the black market, which with the resources and wealth available to capsuleers would basically be like freely taking money away from businesses that wish to function legally and putting it in the hands of illegal business cartels and pirates on a silver platter. Not to mention the extra personnel and manpower hours that would now need to be delegated to policing and enforcing market regulation cluster-wide against the aforementioned resources and wealth of capsuleers. In short, a logistic nightmare that simply isn't feasible.



Here's where we disagree. Taking away temptation is not discipline. It doesn't teach it, it doesn't strengthen it, it doesn't empower it. It does quite the opposite. When you take away temptation so an individual is never faced with it then when they inevitably face temptation, they're nigh powerless to resist it because they've no practice, no resistance built up, no discipline.

On the contrary, discipline is taught by letting an individual face temptation and helping them develop the strength, resolve and character necessary to resist it on their own power.



See above. This would do more harm than good in the interstellar market economy.



Changing the laws will not stop the scamming. It might stop the spamming but at great personnel cost and investment, cost and investment that is going to come out of the businesses and consumers purchasing on the legal, regulated market while those buying and selling on the newly bolstered black market will reap all of the reward and discipline is still not taught.

Except that this thread is about the scammers and spammers and thus my responses to you were in that context. I have made no attempt to tell you how to fix the Empire, nor would I be arrogant enough to presume I could.



I believe we're misunderstanding one another. I'm not suggesting that the dilemma is that legitimate businesses would lose money (most wouldn't, at least not this way. Money would be lost in the increased market costs due to regulation and oversight costs), I'm referring to the fact that regulating the market will more-than-likely increase the black market, particularly given the penchant for capsuleers to use their wealth and resources to acquire illicit goods.



Interesting...I'm discussing the situation and you're telling me to get over myself. This discussion isn't about me, I'd like to keep it that way if that's quite alright with you. I understand that capsuleer businesses have fewer regulations than baseliner businesses, largely due (again) to the amount of administrative oversight necessary to regulate business being conducted by individuals with the wealth and resources of capsuleers.

Further, I never said businesses would be "ruined," I said that the increase in costs for doing business directly hurts legitimate businesses.



You're demonstrably wrong regarding the strength of people. I can look at several capsuleers who possess the strength to practice discipline, your own alliance contains many of them.

Your lack of faith and embitterment with the cluster around you doesn't make it reality, it makes it your perception. It still doesn't change the fact that discipline is taught, not enforced by omission.

Yes I am with you I hate the scammers in Amarr. It might be better to recite prayers though. Most of the clergy I know don't have access to the ship channels and so God is poorly represented.

I agree completely, I am not arguing against their removal from the SCC markets, I even signed the petition asking for that exact thing.



In the long run, yes. Again, I'm not stating that the regulations aren't needed or a good idea, I'm pointing out that there's more to the dilemma than simply swooping in with guns blazing and expecting swift change. It's a gradual process that's going to create initial difficulties for legitimate businesses and increase the activity of the black market. These aren't reasons not to pursue it, they're simply things that need to be considered when pursuing it.



That's not at all what I'm suggesting. I'm simply pointing out, again, that the extensive resourcefulness of capsuleers needs to be a variable that is considered when making changes to the SCC market regulations. it is pointless to put the regulations into place if nothing is also put into place to compensate for the counter activity done by those seeking to continue to flood the market with illicit goods.




On this we agree but the target of those instruments of teaching are those who transgress, not the object of their transgressions.