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Local chat and cloaking... a Three Point Plan

Author
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2011-12-30 18:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Drake Draconis wrote:
Middle ground or not...it suits me just fine...and im quite sure the bulk of the masses wouldn't have much to complain about short of sheer mass paranoia. Everyone has the same chance as everyone else...cloaking device only makes you invisible to the naked eye at that point...not deticble by scanners.

I'm sure it suits you just fine, especially if you're literally salivating at the thought of all the juicy carebears you'll be able to gank without spending much time or energy softening up the system beforehand

It's just a pity you're not thinking of the long-term effects this will have.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2011-12-30 18:18:01 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:


No im pretty sure it wasn't origionally stated by you.....this debates been around a long time.

Point is...if local becomes delayed...no ones going to know whose doing what anymore...and anything over that is just that...overkill.

Its a waste of time to discuss beyond that point....you wont see them...they wont see you unless either speaks up.

Middle ground or not...it suits me just fine...and im quite sure the bulk of the masses wouldn't have much to complain about short of sheer mass paranoia. Everyone has the same chance as everyone else...cloaking device only makes you invisible to the naked eye at that point...not deticble by scanners.

But then he cant see whose around without making visual contact either or DS.

You can't get much more simpliler than that...its a switch to be thrown..no programming needed.


Are you talking about the idea in here? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=23439&find=unread


Thats just one of them thats more eloquently written.

Im talking pre-spacebook-days. Shocked

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Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2011-12-30 18:18:52 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Middle ground or not...it suits me just fine...and im quite sure the bulk of the masses wouldn't have much to complain about short of sheer mass paranoia. Everyone has the same chance as everyone else...cloaking device only makes you invisible to the naked eye at that point...not deticble by scanners.

I'm sure it suits you just fine, especially if you're literally salivating at the thought of all the juicy carebears you'll be able to gank without spending much time or energy softening up the system beforehand

It's just a pity you're not thinking of the long-term effects this will have.



You've not spent much time in WHS have you?

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-12-30 18:21:31 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
You've not spent much time in WHS have you?

I've spent enough time in WHs to know that most nullsec carebears do not want the massive expenditure in time and energy and loss of income to play a game. If they were, they'd be in wormholes, where the rewards are higher than they are in nullsec.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2011-12-30 18:29:05 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
You've not spent much time in WHS have you?

I've spent enough time in WHs to know that most nullsec carebears do not want the massive expenditure in time and energy and loss of income to play a game. If they were, they'd be in wormholes, where the rewards are higher than they are in nullsec.


That is a mass contradiction of terms.


Carebears wouldn't survive in such an environment in the first place.


This isn't carebears online...this is EVE Online...an envionment that requires you to defend yourself and be alert/ever viligent.



0.0 is the true wild west....making it a bit more of a challenge to defend and not predictable would be a good thing would it not?

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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#26 - 2011-12-30 18:29:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Drake Draconis wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Middle ground or not...it suits me just fine...and im quite sure the bulk of the masses wouldn't have much to complain about short of sheer mass paranoia. Everyone has the same chance as everyone else...cloaking device only makes you invisible to the naked eye at that point...not deticble by scanners.

I'm sure it suits you just fine, especially if you're literally salivating at the thought of all the juicy carebears you'll be able to gank without spending much time or energy softening up the system beforehand

It's just a pity you're not thinking of the long-term effects this will have.



You've not spent much time in WHS have you?



Very few people do. And a big reason is there is no local there.

That means you have to fit a scanner to find any wts - which not only gimps your ship but is more of a hassle than anything fun. You can't quickly tell if there is even anyone there let alone anyone to fight. You can't tell if there is a blob there cloaked and ready to gank you. You can't pve there without hitting the dscan button like some sort of OCD imbecile.

These are only a few of the reasons 93% of eve subscribers prefer to play eve where there is a local.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2011-12-30 18:31:49 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
You've not spent much time in WHS have you?

I've spent enough time in WHs to know that most nullsec carebears do not want the massive expenditure in time and energy and loss of income to play a game. If they were, they'd be in wormholes, where the rewards are higher than they are in nullsec.


That is a mass contradiction of terms.


Carebears wouldn't survive in such an environment in the first place.


This isn't carebears online...this is EVE Online...an envionment that requires you to defend yourself and be alert/ever viligent.



0.0 is the true wild west....making it a bit more of a challenge to defend and not predictable would be a good thing would it not?

I guess I'll have to do the entire process with you as well.

What, exactly, do you think will be the most likely result of no local, or if certain ships are excluded from local?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2011-12-30 18:35:28 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
Middle ground or not...it suits me just fine...and im quite sure the bulk of the masses wouldn't have much to complain about short of sheer mass paranoia. Everyone has the same chance as everyone else...cloaking device only makes you invisible to the naked eye at that point...not deticble by scanners.

I'm sure it suits you just fine, especially if you're literally salivating at the thought of all the juicy carebears you'll be able to gank without spending much time or energy softening up the system beforehand

It's just a pity you're not thinking of the long-term effects this will have.



You've not spent much time in WHS have you?



Very few people do. And a big reason is there is no local there.

That means you have to fit a scanner to find any wts - which not only gimps your ship but is more of a hassle than anything fun. You can't quickly tell if there is even anyone there let alone anyone to fight. You can't tell if there is a blob there cloaked and ready to gank you. You can't pve there without hitting the dscan button like some sort of OCD imbecile.

These are only a few of the reasons 93% of eve subscribers prefer to play eve where there is a local.


I'm sorry....but find this preferable.....I may not like it personally myself...but that is why i still play this game...its a challenge...its unpredictable to a point.

This particular change in local is just that much better.

I lived in WHS for 2 to 3 months straight....and I loved every day of it....local hides all...your treating it as if your the one at risk.

That means you have no business there if your not prepared to take the risks on.


People who can't handle that....shouldn't be playing this game. There are ways to detect if someone is tracking you..scanning you down.

It's not a hassel...I call it survival....get backup...a defense fleet...people to help protect and gaurd..watch.

All to often everyone runs off in a massive fleet train and leave behind their home base wide open to attack.

This is a game breaking reallity to me...but it happens none-the-less.

Forcing you to be everviligent...to work hard for your efforts in game is just as every bit as fun for me...as it is for rewards.


Local is practicually the "I-win" button...so long as you know that person is there...you can deny them the target/satisifaction of getting their objective.

Vice versa...they see you too...and have to make decisions based on what they see.

Take that away....it just suddenly became a crap shoot....hope you dont roll snake eyes. Twisted

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Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#29 - 2011-12-30 18:45:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Drake Draconis wrote:
Cearain wrote:

Very few people do. And a big reason is there is no local there.

That means you have to fit a scanner to find any wts - which not only gimps your ship but is more of a hassle than anything fun. You can't quickly tell if there is even anyone there let alone anyone to fight. You can't tell if there is a blob there cloaked and ready to gank you. You can't pve there without hitting the dscan button like some sort of OCD imbecile.

These are only a few of the reasons 93% of eve subscribers prefer to play eve where there is a local.


I lived in WHS for 2 to 3 months straight....and I loved every day of it....local hides all...your treating it as if your the one at risk.

That means you have no business there if your not prepared to take the risks on..People who can't handle that....shouldn't be playing this game.


Ok I guess if ccp decides that 93% of their playerbase has no business playing this game, then they will make all of eve no local like wormholes.

Drake Draconis wrote:

It's not a hassel...I call it survival....get backup...a defense fleet...people to help protect and gaurd..watch.



Yay even more reason to blob up in eve! Great solution to every problem.


Seriously if you like no local in wormholes, play there. You can make more isk than pretty much anywhere else in the game. Just don't assume everyone wants to do that. If we did, all of eve would be in there.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#30 - 2011-12-30 19:28:42 UTC
What is this 93% figure you keep mentioning? Where is this? What proof do you have?


Do the bulk of people play in high sec?

Yes...but high sec is not the subject of issue here...its 0.0

You need to check your facts and read before you respond in the future.

Carebears who dont like this stuff will live in high sec...not elsewhere.

For them to believe they can "carebear" without fear or reprisals in 0.0/WHS are seriuosly delusional indeed.

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2011-12-30 19:57:59 UTC
Drake Draconis wrote:
It's not a hassel...I call it survival....get backup...a defense fleet...people to help protect and gaurd..watch.

And people who go to WHs to live are prepared to do exactly that, or they can get the **** out. If you haven't gotten the memo, nullsec is where you go to make or participate in an empire.

If you lack the insight into what the long-term effects of no local without increasing the rewards would be, let me elucidate for you: nullsec depopulation. Now, I know you'll just go "well, they shouldn't be there, then", consider this: If the people who live in nullsec move their PVE alt to hisec, nullsec is depopulated, roaming gangs get even less they can even consider shooting at, and you maggots will whine yet again and demand some other crutch to scrape out a killmail.

Drake Draconis wrote:
All to often everyone runs off in a massive fleet train and leave behind their home base wide open to attack.

Because the "home base" is more or less impervious to attack, because the SOV system sucks absolute ass.

Drake Draconis wrote:
Local is practicually the "I-win" button...so long as you know that person is there...you can deny them the target/satisifaction of getting their objective.

Counterpoint: They let the other person deny them their ratting/mining/whatever just by being there.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#32 - 2011-12-30 20:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
Drake Draconis wrote:
What is this 93% figure you keep mentioning? Where is this? What proof do you have?

....


Check the QENs

About 7% percent of players decide to go live in no local worm holes. If my figure are accurate will you agree that it is a bad Idea to force this on everyone?


Also your saying you would keep local in low sec and high sec?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2011-12-30 20:25:22 UTC
Most of these shittastic ideas are all about making it easier to gank in nullsec.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#34 - 2011-12-30 20:41:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Xorv
Lord Zim wrote:
Most of these shittastic ideas are all about making it easier to gank in nullsec.


And what are your shittastic ideas all about? Seems to be turning EVE ever further into Space WoW'

Just come out and say it Zim, you want PvE to be completely insulated from PvP outside of gross stupidity.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-12-30 20:48:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
How the **** can I make "EVE further into space WoW", when I'm simply against changes to the current mechanics? Or are you trying to insinuate I'm making "EVE into space WoW" to try to "force" me into accepting ideas which'll ultimately turn nullsec further into a desert than it already has turned after the anom nerf?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
#36 - 2011-12-30 21:05:07 UTC
I've already given you an answer for your fear of turning Null Sec further into a desert.... make High Sec much more dangerous or much less profitable. But you don't seem to like that, even High Sec Incursions seems to be something sacred to you, that shouldn't be changed.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#37 - 2011-12-30 21:09:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Draconis
Cearain wrote:
Drake Draconis wrote:
What is this 93% figure you keep mentioning? Where is this? What proof do you have?

....


Check the QENs

About 7% percent of players decide to go live in no local worm holes. If my figure are accurate will you agree that it is a bad Idea to force this on everyone?


Also your saying you would keep local in low sec and high sec?



Epic Fail.

93% != 0.0 Space Population.

Try again....your seriously reaching at this point.

Care Bears Care Bear in High Sec.

Removnig Local from 0.0 wouldn't be that bad...just makes it more challenging to watch your back. Even then...every bloody attempt to change cloaking mechancis ends up being ignored or rejected...so I'm likely wasting my time to be quiet honest.

So yeah I'm done with this thread...enjoy slugging it out with the dead horse.

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-12-30 21:19:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Xorv wrote:
I've already given you an answer for your fear of turning Null Sec further into a desert.... make High Sec much more dangerous or much less profitable. But you don't seem to like that, even High Sec Incursions seems to be something sacred to you, that shouldn't be changed.

Your reading ability is impeccable. I've said that if you are going to change hisec incursions, then reduce the payout, but do not remove or move it from hisec, because it's the best way to train hisec dwellers in group flying, without actually losing ships left, right and center.

I, personally, am all for making hisec less profitable, but again, you have to consider the effects it'll have on a game population which has come to expect the payout they get in hisec. If anything, I would assume it'd be much more successful to actually up the rewards in nullsec.

Drake Draconis wrote:
Epic Fail.

Jesus Christ, you did not just say that. You should be ashamed of yourself for saying that.

Drake Draconis wrote:
Removnig Local from 0.0 wouldn't be that bad...just makes it more challenging to watch your back. Even then...every bloody attempt to change cloaking mechancis ends up being ignored or rejected...so I'm likely wasting my time to be quiet honest.

There's a reason it's "ignored". It normally ends up being awful ideas, like all "remove local" ideas are.
Drake Draconis wrote:
So yeah I'm done with this thread...enjoy slugging it out with the dead horse.

Bye. Don't let the forum unlog button hit you on your way out.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2011-12-30 21:29:00 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Xorv wrote:
I've already given you an answer for your fear of turning Null Sec further into a desert.... make High Sec much more dangerous or much less profitable. But you don't seem to like that, even High Sec Incursions seems to be something sacred to you, that shouldn't be changed.

Your reading ability is impeccable. I've said that if you are going to change hisec incursions, then reduce the payout, but do not remove or move it from hisec, because it's the best way to train hisec dwellers in group flying, without actually losing ships left, right and center.

I, personally, am all for making hisec less profitable, but again, you have to consider the effects it'll have on a game population which has come to expect the payout they get in hisec. If anything, I would assume it'd be much more successful to actually up the rewards in nullsec.

Drake Draconis wrote:
Epic Fail.

Jesus Christ, you did not just say that. You should be ashamed of yourself for saying that.

Drake Draconis wrote:
Removnig Local from 0.0 wouldn't be that bad...just makes it more challenging to watch your back. Even then...every bloody attempt to change cloaking mechancis ends up being ignored or rejected...so I'm likely wasting my time to be quiet honest.

There's a reason it's "ignored". It normally ends up being awful ideas, like all "remove local" ideas are.
Drake Draconis wrote:
So yeah I'm done with this thread...enjoy slugging it out with the dead horse.

Bye. Don't let the forum unlog button hit you on your way out.


U Mad Brah? Try reading...don't let the edit button hit you on the way in...or out for that matter.

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Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2011-12-30 22:05:45 UTC
CynoNet Two wrote:
....

b) Any player with an active cloaking device is removed from Local. They cannot be seen there, and in turn cannot see anyone else there themselves.
Should the player be decloaked they return to the Local channel as normal.




I, too, want to be forced to load all the portraits for everyone in the constellation every time I decloak.