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Derinkuyu and it's Air Shafts - What visible field?

Author
Random Bacon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-06-15 13:13:22 UTC
Derinkuyu is an underground city structure in antiquity.

It's latitude and longitude are measured as: 38° 22′ 0″ N, 34° 44′ 0″ E
38.366667, 34.733333

It is 60m deep in places, meaning the Air Shafts would not be of harmful length for someone to look up, albeit with the potential for neck strain.

Which part of the night sky would be visible if you were to use the Microsoft world wide telescope project to set it's co-ordinates as a telescope location and scroll back through the date / skyfield historical record?

Depending on the angle of the shafts the Orion constellation wouldn't be too much of a stretch.


Commissar Rain
Kesukka
#2 - 2015-06-15 14:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Commissar Rain
LordOdysseus
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#3 - 2015-06-16 22:13:18 UTC
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#4 - 2015-06-17 03:40:26 UTC
That is so mysterious. I've dug a hole. Gravity pretty much forces you to manually lift every ounce or gram of matter you want out of the hole. And then you have to find somewhere to put those ounces and grams of weight. That's just digging little holes in soil. Or foxholes or 6-foot graves, if we want to really think about shoveling duty.

So-- Entire cities dug from limestone underground? What kind of multi-generational scratching with handtools project is that? Wikipedia (lamely and unconvincingly, IMO) says those underground cities were for defensive purposes. Quoting a Roman guy. A hole in the ground with one exit up doesn't seem trustworthy for defense. I'd prefer to trust in a rodent prairie dog underground defense system. A maze of tunnels, and many, many close and distant exit points, all over the grid.

Seems we're missing some pretty huge insights about those carved-out underground cities projects. If it were only one, we might think some misguided overlord managed apply thousands of slave hours into some misguided project. But there are 3 or so. That means a few generations had reasons to reasons to build reverse pyramids, going down instead of up.....
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#5 - 2015-06-17 06:36:34 UTC
Here comes the Sense Truck (TM) with a payload of Sense.

- There are many underground cities carved in the limestone terrain of Cappadocia. Digging into limestone is just a bit more dificult than digging out limestone blocks to build houses, and yields a better result in the long run
- Most of those cities were expanded a few centuries ago as a proof of good neighbourship between Christian inhabitants of the place and Muslim newcomers, so they used to be smaller when they were built than how they are now
- If you dig a city underground, making straight air shafts is important to improve the air flow
- If you dig a straight shaft from a place underground towards the surface, it will necessarily point *somewhere* in the sky
- Enter "investigators" and you'll get funky theories on what did the diggers want from their ventilation system

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#6 - 2015-06-17 17:20:11 UTC
I think these are abandoned reptilian cities. If you are thinking its a joke, read ancient Egyptian "The Tale of the Shipwrecked Sailor", look at this article, and consider giving oath to snake-person.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#7 - 2015-06-18 02:22:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
::Drafted post was tech-jammed by the reptilians or their higher ups, regrettably (to me) lost to the ether. I may have offended Cthulu or other elders.... ::

-1300s Europe - If you own and can feed one horse, you are a knight and an aristocrat. Whether you take baths or not.

-500 years later, America - The Alamo, Texas. The steam engine is functional. Industrial cloth weaving has been around for 30 years at least. Willsare being written by the besieged Alamo fighters. "I will my coat to Bill Slocum, if he is still alive. Should he be not, then I would like for John Hornish to have my coat. Whoever finds my log cabin/dugout hole in Waco, Texas can have it."

-1,000 - 8,000 years before - Humans traversing distances with no roads and trespassing in rival groups' territory to quarry, by hand, 500-ton blocks of sandstone. Dang, what an extended camp-out way out here! Crap, I didn't know cutting a rock out of an outcropping would take so long. I thought using a steel saw on a piece of plywood was crazy slow. But this piece of soft bronze vs. sandstone! By the way, who's going to get all of that dirt and tumbled boulders shite out of the way first, so we can get to wearing away raw stone with bronze?"

After that, there's getting that 500-ton block of raw stone to the "city." With muscle power only. Human and animal muscles, sure. Perfectly-crafted handmade spoked wheels will never handle that load. Maybe using hundreds of palm logs instead of wheels will do it? Hot damn, fecking palm tree trunks don't grow in a perfect straight axis. The suckers always have a little organic bend in them. No matter how short you cut the sections, each one always has some "lop, stuck, lop, stuck." And we need about 400 of them to to support and roll this stone. That's a lot fairly cylindrical non-wheels to manage. But it's OK, we're superstitious primitives who irrationally worship dog-headed gods. No prob."

Alright, we got that hunk of rock there. So the guys there can handcraft it into a perfect cube, all sides all perfectly 90 degrees in relation to each other, with bronze tools and sandpaper. And some other guys can lift those blocks X meters up, stack them and move them around on each other to perfectly interfit, and build a pyramid. Oops, got to go and wear a line into a raw block of stone out of some piece of nature somewhere for the next 10 years. If only we can do that, we can get a crew to roll it on back here."

The same for carving out those Cappodacian underground cities, I think. You can think about the engineering side (how), or the anthropology side (why). Either way, the how and why don't make sense in terms of logic/western Enlightenment science theory.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#8 - 2015-06-23 01:10:23 UTC
OK, a hypothesis:
-Those ancient people didn't have to excavate that hole. It was a natural sink hole. Limestone is pretty water-soluble, and most big caves form in limestone. Derinkuyu is limestone, so it seems it could form a natural sinkhole.

-Those people didn't carve dwelling out for defense. They did it because of the nice even year-round temperatures underground. Comparatively warm in the winter, cool in the summer. Those people on the surface can cut and haul firewood all winter, if they can find any. We don't need much of that stuff. Nice!

-As for hauling out the tailings: If it was a sinkhole, why do that? Just dump them over the side to the bottom of the hole. It was probably full of water anyway.

I may or may not talk to myself more in this thread. It's still undetermined.
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-06-23 06:25:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Khergit Deserters wrote:
It's still undetermined.
For just a second I thought you wrote demented instead of undetermined.

EDIT: For some reason I just realized that OP's avatar looks just like that racist nutjob that shot 9 people in that church in Charleston... Ugh

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#10 - 2015-06-23 13:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Ha. OP, change your avatar.

The demented part is still undetermined as well.

My hypothesis above is complete bunk. I just checked out a diagram of Derinkuyu. That's no sinkhole. That's 11 layers of planned construction.
Random Bacon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-06-26 21:01:36 UTC
....and what a week it has been.


Ahhh, the OOPE boards, some think it's GD, some think it's their meme outlet, others are disinterested.

Luckily, it's not a reference to aliens, nor secret workers that had over active skills.

Derinkuyu predates Osiris worship...


The BPS Research Digest, Issue 245 - 22/08/2013


2. Conspiracy theorists are more focused on discrediting official accounts than proposing their own


We tend to think of conspiracy theorists as being fixated on far-fetched explanations. In fact they are not so much concerned with providing alternative accounts of historical events, rather they are driven by a mistrust of authority to discredit official narratives. That's according to a new analysis of conspiracist and conventionalist online comments about the 9/11 terror attacks published on US and UK news websites around the time of the tenth anniversary of the atrocity.

Excluding contributions that were pure insults or just links to other sites, Michael Wood and Karen Douglas identified 2,174 relevant comments posted to ABC news, CNN, the Independent and the Daily Mail between July 1 and December 31 2011. The comments were made by 1,156 different authors; 1,459 were coded as conspiracist, written mainly by people who follow the so-called 9/11 Truth Movement, and 715 as conventionalist.

Conventionalist comments more often (56 per cent) contained information that supported their own position as compared with conspiracist comments (31 per cent). By contrast, conspiracist comments were more likely (64 per cent) to contain derogation of opposing explanations, as compared with conventionalist comments (44 per cent). Moreover, conspiracist comments more often signalled mistrust (10.6 per cent vs. 1.4 per cent). On the other hand, conventionalist comments were significantly more hostile in tone. Finally, neither side appeared happy applying the term "conspiracy theory" or derivatives to their own beliefs, suggesting the label has acquired derogatory connotations.

Wood and Douglas acknowledged there are problems with making inferences about people's beliefs based on their online comments. Such comments are typically used to persuade others and are not a simple read out of an author's own beliefs. Nonetheless, the findings confirm prior research into conspiracy theorist beliefs, most of which has been based on questionnaires. The central finding that conspiracists are motivated principally to challenge official accounts, rather than to endorse a particular alternative narrative, is also consistent with a study published last year that showed beliefs in contradictory conspiracy theories correlate with each other.

The researchers said their results also fit with the related idea that many conspiracists share a similar worldview - "a belief system conducive to conspiracy beliefs in general." Characterised by mistrust, this perspective is often focused on finding anomalies in official accounts and assuming they are unexplainable. "For many conspiracists, there are two worlds," said Wood and Douglas, "one real and (mostly) unseen, the other a sinister illusion meant to cover up the truth; and the evidence against the latter is evidence for the former."


ahhh, the OOPE Boards...

<3 you guys
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#12 - 2015-06-26 23:59:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
Wait, now there's a conspiracy involved? I guess I missed that. The plot thickens....!

No need to condescend upon all of OOPE as a whole, mate. Was just half-serious stuff, thrown out there for discussion. Can easily find the real academic anthropology facts about Derinkuyu. No doubt it's been photographed, mapped, grid-lined, and analyzed since the 19th century or before. No need to discuss or speculate, all that has already been done. I for sure don't want to be pigeonholed as a "conspiracy theorist"!
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#13 - 2015-06-27 07:00:40 UTC
Random Bacon wrote:
....and what a week it has been.


Ahhh, the OOPE boards, some think it's GD, some think it's their meme outlet, others are disinterested.

Luckily, it's not a reference to aliens, nor secret workers that had over active skills.

Derinkuyu predates Osiris worship...


The BPS Research Digest, Issue 245 - 22/08/2013


2. Conspiracy theorists are more focused on discrediting official accounts than proposing their own


We tend to think of conspiracy theorists as being fixated on far-fetched explanations. In fact they are not so much concerned with providing alternative accounts of historical events, rather they are driven by a mistrust of authority to discredit official narratives. That's according to a new analysis of conspiracist and conventionalist online comments about the 9/11 terror attacks published on US and UK news websites around the time of the tenth anniversary of the atrocity.

Excluding contributions that were pure insults or just links to other sites, Michael Wood and Karen Douglas identified 2,174 relevant comments posted to ABC news, CNN, the Independent and the Daily Mail between July 1 and December 31 2011. The comments were made by 1,156 different authors; 1,459 were coded as conspiracist, written mainly by people who follow the so-called 9/11 Truth Movement, and 715 as conventionalist.

Conventionalist comments more often (56 per cent) contained information that supported their own position as compared with conspiracist comments (31 per cent). By contrast, conspiracist comments were more likely (64 per cent) to contain derogation of opposing explanations, as compared with conventionalist comments (44 per cent). Moreover, conspiracist comments more often signalled mistrust (10.6 per cent vs. 1.4 per cent). On the other hand, conventionalist comments were significantly more hostile in tone. Finally, neither side appeared happy applying the term "conspiracy theory" or derivatives to their own beliefs, suggesting the label has acquired derogatory connotations.

Wood and Douglas acknowledged there are problems with making inferences about people's beliefs based on their online comments. Such comments are typically used to persuade others and are not a simple read out of an author's own beliefs. Nonetheless, the findings confirm prior research into conspiracy theorist beliefs, most of which has been based on questionnaires. The central finding that conspiracists are motivated principally to challenge official accounts, rather than to endorse a particular alternative narrative, is also consistent with a study published last year that showed beliefs in contradictory conspiracy theories correlate with each other.

The researchers said their results also fit with the related idea that many conspiracists share a similar worldview - "a belief system conducive to conspiracy beliefs in general." Characterised by mistrust, this perspective is often focused on finding anomalies in official accounts and assuming they are unexplainable. "For many conspiracists, there are two worlds," said Wood and Douglas, "one real and (mostly) unseen, the other a sinister illusion meant to cover up the truth; and the evidence against the latter is evidence for the former."


ahhh, the OOPE Boards...

<3 you guys


I would suggest you to state your point openly and stop your attempts to breadcrumb people into it.

So a underground city haves some straight air shafts. So what?

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Random Bacon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-06-27 22:17:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Random Bacon
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:

I would suggest you to state your point openly and stop your attempts to breadcrumb people into it.

So a underground city haves some straight air shafts. So what?



There are people that are putting in hours to check things like this in a game OOPod there is a lot of stuff that can be classed as worthwhile thought.




Also, the reason that BPS excerpt is listed; due to the derail posts dumped in a thread that can easily be ignored.

If you took that personally, then maybe you should have just held 'whatever it is, it's bull****' out of sight and out of mind.

There were also mentions of lizard cities, but I guess if someone gets wrapped up with an expected value everything else can be excluded, also mentioned in that BPS post.


I'll be honest with you, I didn't even check the replies until the other day.

Debora Tsung wrote:

EDIT: For some reason I just realized that OP's avatar looks just like that racist nutjob that shot 9 people in that church in Charleston... Ugh

Not seen the guy, my Tukoss lookalike with heavy lipstick got a ticket to doomheim
Debora Tsung
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-06-29 19:17:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Debora Tsung
Random Bacon wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:

EDIT: For some reason I just realized that OP's avatar looks just like that racist nutjob that shot 9 people in that church in Charleston... Ugh

Not seen the guy, my Tukoss lookalike with heavy lipstick got a ticket to doomheim


Look here:

Dylann Roof

Or that one if the first was too distorted

EDIT: You even got the hair right, it's almost creepy.

Stupidity should be a bannable offense.

Fighting back is more fun than not.

Sticky: AFK Cloaking Thread It's not pretty, but it's there.

Random Bacon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-06-30 20:54:51 UTC
I can see how you plucked it.

This avatar is a gril though. Not like I need to see it.

*references wall of revolving text*
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#17 - 2015-06-30 21:05:37 UTC
Debora Tsung wrote:
Random Bacon wrote:
Debora Tsung wrote:

EDIT: For some reason I just realized that OP's avatar looks just like that racist nutjob that shot 9 people in that church in Charleston... Ugh

Not seen the guy, my Tukoss lookalike with heavy lipstick got a ticket to doomheim


Look here:

Dylann Roof

Or that one if the first was too distorted

EDIT: You even got the hair right, it's almost creepy.


I think he will be loved in the jail with such great look. He may as well start to explore his feminine side right now.
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
xX SERENITY Xx
#18 - 2015-07-01 17:12:32 UTC
few years ago my friend was there and he was also interesed . howewer he found something more interesing exacly four identical shaped stones all were 30cm size old people said that these stones have electricity . but none of them was carrying parts that would look like battery or capacitor. they took them and put them together and once LED diode was attached it lighted faintly and shortly later faded out they said something about very large caves approx 150m lenght and 90m width with 40m height there was four caves of that type and four shafts above them caves were 60m underground and shafts were deep to 115 metersthey claim that it was old spaceport as vessels were starting and landing in these caves they showed him only one shaft as only one location was found the shafts were sealed with concrete and stones for about 3meters deep after that only sand and stones at approx 8th meter water was present. shaft walls were octagonal shape .. the ships landed several hundreds years ago and shafts were closed . nobody reached the caves yet he couldnt take pictures as his camera and cellphone was confiscated for duration of his travel to this area. . he only got piece of stone from shaft wall that appears to be melted. three other shafts were either collapsed and destroyed. but they were found . there was three spaceports like this and last visitors were in place like sixteen years ago there came a young men that had long steel rod or needle and was puncturing ground all over place he punctured few more and noted something on paper and keept puncturing ground and noted something three times more he came back with shovel and digged in six locations approx half meter deep into ground he bagged the ground pieces and took them with him . he came next day and continued ddigging for another half meter deep . so one meter at all in one of digged holes he took few stone pieces and quickly throw ground back to holes year later he came back just to puncture ground in six places and went back. he never come back later. nobody know what he was doing untill now. these four shafts were located not far from place where this mysterious underground city might be located its not related to them as these shafts were perfect 90 angle the old people only said these ships were not metal but stone that was empty inside the stone shaped vessel and only stone were walls inside these strange objects. also had thin layer a of steel similar material and another layer that was placed on steel layer to protect if from atmospheric enviroments

there are plans for exploring these ventilation shafts . other shafts are in too bad condition to be explored all are collapsed/destroyed except one that was closed by most likely "owner" layer of concrete and stones need to be removed and all along stones and sand need to be removed too and water pumped out to acces the caves

only interessing fact about these four shafts were that some sort of steel rails were found in few ocations all was about circle . probably the device used to dig these shaft was based on the rails so it could move while drilling traces for this werent found except few steel rivets and some metal plates that were used to attach something on them and only 6cm long rail piece was found
Random Bacon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-07-01 23:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Random Bacon
tbh, I was more of the thinking that the livestock pens and winery were an indication that they spent considerable time underground with a necessity to monitor the above ground climate, livestock-feed and wine need photosynthesis.

Plus there is this;

Maurizio Montalbini (Senigallia 4 September 1953–Pieve Torina 19 September 2009) was an Italian sociologist and caver who had lived in complete isolation in an underground chamber multiple times since 1986.

On December 14, 1986, Montalbini entered the Frasassi Caves of the Apennine Mountains, near Ancona. A video feed was set up to monitor him from the surface. He emerged on July 12, 1987, breaking the world record for complete isolation.[1] An Ancona local named Stefania Follini heard of his exploits and decided to attempt it herself; NASA sponsored her stay in a cave in New Mexico.[2] Her menstrual cycle stopped, and she began a sleep cycle of waking for 23 hours at a time and sleeping for 10 hours. Both Follini and Montalbini found that time passed quickly underground.[3]

Throughout 1993 Montalbini stayed in a cave in Pesaro. He again lost his sense of time, thinking it was only June when he was called to the surface in December. More precisely, he entered on December 6, 1992 and got out on December 5, 1993, thinking it was June 6, 1993. At that time, his immune defence system fell from a level of 23 to 0, and then after 10 days it recovered to a level of 2.5 .[4]

In October 2006 Montalbini entered a cave called "Underlab" with the intention of spending three years there. He planned for it to be his final experiment, but hoped it would provide valuable insight into the natural cycles of the body.[5] This stay ended up lasting just over 260 days.

Montalbini would eat pills for meals while in the cave, but also brought along honey, nuts and chocolate on his most recent trip.[5]

Which isn't about aliens, but does picque my interest in what the dwellers of Derinkuyu would have needed to survive in their caves.

I was also impressed with their doors (which provided 2 layers of isolation; 1 from the solar cycle fully, and no human contact, the other with only human contact) so did a bit of WWTelescope consideration, I was mainly probing to a link for laser measurements on the shafts but none could be found by my search engine.

I've had to juggle a couple of tasks involving google and sometimes finding the fine details on remote locations studied a long time ago is like wading through adverts, to see half a story.

I wouldn't even mind a paywall to circumnavigate, but needles in haystacks have me gathering IP maps for businesses to assess other sociological features. So I'm reluctant to click on some links.
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
#20 - 2015-07-02 00:24:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Khergit Deserters
[Post felt bad about itself, self-destructed. Those Hittite and/or Phrygian underground climate-controlled chambers sure would cure up some bacon slabs and sausage links nice though.... Game on!]
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