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Which is better B/T 250mm Rails vs 720mm Arties?
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Maradusa Macarthy
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-06-28 05:07:53 UTC
Hi Yal, I'm trying to decide between which of these weapons system is better for C3 WHs b/t 250mm rails vs 720mm arties. This decision is based on whether to train for the Sleipnir or the Vuture for soloing C3s. Also deciding on which b/t the Loki or Eagle/RailGu my alt trains for. Can anyone please give me some helpful feedback to help me decide which path to take? Any help is greatly appreciated, Thanks.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#2 - 2015-06-28 19:15:15 UTC
First, what does b/t mean and secondly, what do you mean by soloing? If you are brave enough to try solo pvp in a c3 I would recommend a command ship and if you mean running annomalies the sleeper cruisers.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
GordonO
BURN EDEN
#3 - 2015-06-28 20:19:30 UTC
I used rails before in a C3.. wasn't great. Some ships stay at range and the frigs come in close so you need something that works at both ranges. You could keep your toons 20-30km away from each other but its still not going to be super easy. When you launch your drones to hit clsoe orbiting frigs they will get shot at.
If you go sliepner, just use AC's.
Missiles are still the best choice for this type of activity. Sentry drone boats also work.
my 2 isk from experience anyway

... What next ??
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#4 - 2015-06-28 20:46:32 UTC
250's are in a good place right now. they reload fast and have decent range, decent damage, decent rate of fire. ROF keeps rats from regening so much.
One issue is neuts. Neuts shut your guns down.

Arties of any kind have good alpha, but poor ROF means rats can regen a lot in between shots. Just seems like a bad way to go.

GordonO is probably spot on about autocannons and missiles.
Missiles being capless, damage specific, are the best for solo stuff imo.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#5 - 2015-06-28 20:55:06 UTC
As for the advice on training an alt:

I always recommend training opposite directions. What you don't want, is two pilots that do the exact same thing. (Unless you're a miner I suppose) Characters that do different things will allow you to experience more from EVE in half the time. And they may compliment each other at some point.

Probe alt + Damage alt
Cap alt / subcap alt
Guns/armor Missiles/shields
Cyno alt
Leadership alt
Freighter/hauler alt
Trade alt for selling your stuff with less cost/taxes/fees.

You see the general idea.
Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-06-28 22:48:02 UTC
Honestly a Rattlesnake is just easier in every way.

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Maradusa Macarthy
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-06-29 04:41:13 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
First, what does b/t mean and secondly, what do you mean by soloing? If you are brave enough to try solo pvp in a c3 I would recommend a command ship and if you mean running annomalies the sleeper cruisers.


b/t = between. And I would be using a combination of 2 ships to do C3s + salvager/scanner/t2hauler + booster.
Maradusa Macarthy
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-06-29 04:55:30 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
250's are in a good place right now. they reload fast and have decent range, decent damage, decent rate of fire. ROF keeps rats from regening so much.
One issue is neuts. Neuts shut your guns down.

Arties of any kind have good alpha, but poor ROF means rats can regen a lot in between shots. Just seems like a bad way to go.

GordonO is probably spot on about autocannons and missiles.
Missiles being capless, damage specific, are the best for solo stuff imo.



yea it seems a botched that one (I didn't train missiles). So in case of 250mm rails, would Eagle/Railgu + Vulture be better than the Vaga/Loki + Sleipnir route for doing C3's?

I thought the Sleipnir with 720mm Arty was suppose to be powerful in C3s, have they been nerfed?
Maradusa Macarthy
Doomheim
#9 - 2015-06-29 04:59:26 UTC
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
Honestly a Rattlesnake is just easier in every way.


How much does insurance pay for losing a Rattlesnake, just curious because I see them a lot on the KBs for some reason.
Amanda Chan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-06-29 06:10:37 UTC
Maradusa Macarthy wrote:
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
Honestly a Rattlesnake is just easier in every way.


How much does insurance pay for losing a Rattlesnake, just curious because I see them a lot on the KBs for some reason.


Pays for crap like all non t1 faction hulls. Rattlesnake are just amoung the cheapest of the faction BS hulls. I think you can get a hull for under 400 million and pull some beastly dps for ship + fitting running you around 500 million.
Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-06-29 06:19:34 UTC
Amanda Chan wrote:
Maradusa Macarthy wrote:
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
Honestly a Rattlesnake is just easier in every way.


How much does insurance pay for losing a Rattlesnake, just curious because I see them a lot on the KBs for some reason.


Pays for crap like all non t1 faction hulls. Rattlesnake are just amoung the cheapest of the faction BS hulls. I think you can get a hull for under 400 million and pull some beastly dps for ship + fitting running you around 500 million.


you see them on the killboards a lot because they are popular, we'd still hunt you down in anything you fly.

and yeah insurance might not be great (i don't insure my ships so i don't know the actual value) but they cost like 360mil in Jita at the moment so are dirt cheap considering what you get for your iskies

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Nyveris NeVonte
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-06-29 11:18:39 UTC
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
Amanda Chan wrote:
Maradusa Macarthy wrote:
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
Honestly a Rattlesnake is just easier in every way.


How much does insurance pay for losing a Rattlesnake, just curious because I see them a lot on the KBs for some reason.


Pays for crap like all non t1 faction hulls. Rattlesnake are just amoung the cheapest of the faction BS hulls. I think you can get a hull for under 400 million and pull some beastly dps for ship + fitting running you around 500 million.


you see them on the killboards a lot because they are popular, we'd still hunt you down in anything you fly.

and yeah insurance might not be great (i don't insure my ships so i don't know the actual value) but they cost like 360mil in Jita at the moment so are dirt cheap considering what you get for your iskies


So they're actually are people who go around conducting such trivial activities huh... such a shame.
Maradusa Macarthy
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-06-29 11:26:42 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
As for the advice on training an alt:

I always recommend training opposite directions. What you don't want, is two pilots that do the exact same thing. (Unless you're a miner I suppose) Characters that do different things will allow you to experience more from EVE in half the time. And they may compliment each other at some point.

Probe alt + Damage alt
Cap alt / subcap alt
Guns/armor Missiles/shields
Cyno alt
Leadership alt
Freighter/hauler alt
Trade alt for selling your stuff with less cost/taxes/fees.

You see the general idea.


actually i did just that. I trained 2 pilots in turrets, and 2 in missiles/drones.
Maradusa Macarthy
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-07-01 11:17:59 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
250's are in a good place right now. they reload fast and have decent range, decent damage, decent rate of fire. ROF keeps rats from regening so much.
One issue is neuts. Neuts shut your guns down.

Arties of any kind have good alpha, but poor ROF means rats can regen a lot in between shots. Just seems like a bad way to go.

GordonO is probably spot on about autocannons and missiles.
Missiles being capless, damage specific, are the best for solo stuff imo.



Which ships between the Railgu vs Rail Proteus utilizes the 250mm Rails for C3 WHs the best?

Also between the rail Vulture vs rail Astarte?
Xylem Viliana
homeless bum
#15 - 2015-07-01 21:05:07 UTC
rail astarte can be very nasty, but for c3's needs bling, rattler would be my choice too,
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2015-07-01 21:23:41 UTC
Honestly, don't solo. Dual box RR domis.

Cheap, insurable, can tank ALL C3 stuff without breaking a sweat, are non trivial to engage for gankers (not that they're 'hard' but they're...more than a sole ship), sites melt under their DPS.

There's literally no better option, if you can spare the pilot.
Maradusa Macarthy
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-07-01 22:21:18 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Honestly, don't solo. Dual box RR domis.

Cheap, insurable, can tank ALL C3 stuff without breaking a sweat, are non trivial to engage for gankers (not that they're 'hard' but they're...more than a sole ship), sites melt under their DPS.

There's literally no better option, if you can spare the pilot.


Are they better than Rattlers?

Also how is it best to fit the RR Domis and how do you use them?

Can you give me a rundown of the skills needed to use the RR Domis effectively?
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#18 - 2015-07-02 01:26:04 UTC
Maradusa Macarthy wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:
250's are in a good place right now. they reload fast and have decent range, decent damage, decent rate of fire. ROF keeps rats from regening so much.
One issue is neuts. Neuts shut your guns down.

Arties of any kind have good alpha, but poor ROF means rats can regen a lot in between shots. Just seems like a bad way to go.

GordonO is probably spot on about autocannons and missiles.
Missiles being capless, damage specific, are the best for solo stuff imo.



Which ships between the Railgu vs Rail Proteus utilizes the 250mm Rails for C3 WHs the best?

Also between the rail Vulture vs rail Astarte?


I have zero experience in worm holes.
similarly I have zero experience with a railGu or a Vulture.

I do fly a Rail Proteus fairly often for null sec sites. Like it a lot and I consider it 'second best' of the null fit T3 type fits. Tengu being #1.
I also use a Blaster Astarte on occasion for PvP. It's a DPS machine! and I love it. Rail Astarte might be pretty awesome.
Maradusa Macarthy
Doomheim
#19 - 2015-07-02 03:24:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Maradusa Macarthy
RavenPaine wrote:
Maradusa Macarthy wrote:
RavenPaine wrote:
250's are in a good place right now. they reload fast and have decent range, decent damage, decent rate of fire. ROF keeps rats from regening so much.
One issue is neuts. Neuts shut your guns down.

Arties of any kind have good alpha, but poor ROF means rats can regen a lot in between shots. Just seems like a bad way to go.

GordonO is probably spot on about autocannons and missiles.
Missiles being capless, damage specific, are the best for solo stuff imo.



Which ships between the Railgu vs Rail Proteus utilizes the 250mm Rails for C3 WHs the best?

Also between the rail Vulture vs rail Astarte?


I have zero experience in worm holes.
similarly I have zero experience with a railGu or a Vulture.

I do fly a Rail Proteus fairly often for null sec sites. Like it a lot and I consider it 'second best' of the null fit T3 type fits. Tengu being #1.
I also use a Blaster Astarte on occasion for PvP. It's a DPS machine! and I love it. Rail Astarte might be pretty awesome.




Ty RavenPaine for your input. I guess I'll go with the Railgu and Rail Astarte for now, but I'm still a little worried about training for T3Cs because there are lots of whimpers about them getting attack by CCP's nerf bat. You know anything about this? What kind of dps can the Astarte tank per say?
Riven Varlass
Perkone
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-07-02 08:06:55 UTC
Maradusa Macarthy wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Honestly, don't solo. Dual box RR domis.

Cheap, insurable, can tank ALL C3 stuff without breaking a sweat, are non trivial to engage for gankers (not that they're 'hard' but they're...more than a sole ship), sites melt under their DPS.

There's literally no better option, if you can spare the pilot.


Are they better than Rattlers?

Also how is it best to fit the RR Domis and how do you use them?

Can you give me a rundown of the skills needed to use the RR Domis effectively?


Yes they are better than Rattlers when it comes to risk vs reward.

Highs: remote reps, energy transfer, neuts.
Meds: Sensor booster, mjd, tp, eccm, point
lows: DDA, resistance mods, 1600 plate
sentry drones++

Warp into site, align celestial/sleeper, mjd. stop ships. launch mtu. blap sleepers whilst spamming scan button. bookmark mtu. go next site.

C3 in dual domi is a walk in the park.
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