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Phew.... it's been a lot to read, but I've actually read the Feedback AND this thread, and here it goes:

OK, I've spent several weeks now in game (admittedly less than usual because of difficult in accomplishing a variety of things I've done since 2008), and I've assembled enough notes to hopefully give SOME constructive feedback for the moment. Due to the length this may be (is) a 2-parter.

So, I can split it into "immediate first/lasting impressions and POS/Ships issues". The second part is "objects, identification/recog and possibly help CCP's solvency of the Overview/Icon issues":

First: There is an apparent inconsistency with the POS "arrays" and labs, which, since the POS changes last year, have taken on a similarity in function yet:

- The Reprocessing Array looks like and upside down Freighter (or a couch)
- The Compression Array looks more reasonably like it's compressing something BUT it has no connection to visually associating anything to do with minerals/rocks/ice when you compare it to the Reprocessing Array (see above)
- The Assembly Array looks like an unfinised (not a solid object) icon (or a jellyfish)
- Then there's the Moon Mining Array (octopus?) which lacks any connection to the other arrays that seem to hold some similarity (method of madness): Shield/Shield Maint Arrays and Jump Portal Array, though that bares odd similarity to a Cyno Generator
- The Mobile Labs, however, "look" like solid objects in space, but it looks different from the rest of the "mostly" square-ish POS icons of non-weapon significance (or, oddly, I seriously "see" an open frog's mouth)
- Then there are the "Hangars" (personal and Corp) which are solid objects that seem like some kind of logical connection to the iconography of hangars/cargo bays in stations (in the Neocom), BUT if these are to follow the idea that all "solid" enclosures that can hold "stuff" in them, then there is a major disconnect with icons that are not fully "closed" via outline. Much like the strange Assembly Array (jellyfish), you also have Silos and Coupling "arrays" which are technically solid objects able to also hold things (like the hangars and mobile labs do) but lack a closed border. In fact, the similarity of Silos and Coupling Arrays seem reminiscient of RL wide-based laboratory beakers, which ironically appears to BE the ACTUAL icon for "Mobile Reactors"... am I the only one seeing a "disconnect" and yet my brain "wants to connect" the symbology of those objects?

The Dev responses, and the somewhat "curt" Dev Blog response, seem to insist on an idea of "connection and understanding", yet I (like many other players I have discussed this with in-game) agree there is a "lack of symbolic cohesion".

The biggest example are SHIP icons:
IF the logic is intended that ALL solid objects that are SHIPS (that carry pilots) are supposed to be outlined objects (whether shaded or not), then why are these exceptions:

- Rookie Ships are shaped like a US military "Private" rank symbol, not an outlined shape of that symbol.
- YET: Titans "look" like a US military "Corporal" rank symbol, BUT it has "physicality" that outlines both "up-pointing lines".
- Shuttles also fall oddly under the "Private" rank symbol, slightly, with no outlined "mass" to them, and yet a simple (smaller) capsule actually has an outline of shape.

Aside from that, all ships appear to have "mass" through the use of "outlined shapes", but then why does a Dreadnaught actually look like an iconic spaceship (it has wings in its symbol) while all other ships look like upside down "police badges" of some sort? And why do Mining/Industrial ships look like an evolution from a candy bar to a school bus to a monorail (Freighter/Capital Industrial)?

Then there's the unexplainable RE-USE of the "(now) old" Mobile Depot symbol now used for Frigates and Destroyers? Honestly, I believe that some of the "problems" us users are having with "recgonition" vs "adaptation" is akin to telling us to learn and use a completely new alphabet which all the "letters" look unlike anything we've seen... EXCEPT one or two that are identical from the old alphabet. This example applies to common confusions I've been witnessing from other players:

The "is that the old Mobile Depot or a Frigate?" and the "Is it an old wreck or a Destroyer near me?" questions.

If you are going to completely re-design ALL icons, then for a successfully complete change for "intended adaptation", one would require a very basic graphic design rule: NEVER re-use any old (or similar) symbols if you're going to graphically redo an entire "graphic symbology set".

An additional aside of "similarity at a glance" is oddly the "why do I see Station symbols "tilted" 45-degrees as symbols for Carriers?"... I oddly didn't expect that response from some fellow players, but then I had a look at the graphic set layout and thought: Hmm... they do have a point.

And the point is second-guessing when literally "seconds count" in quick-decision making.

(more...)

tl;dr

I'd say it was very worth reading. Hopefully for CCP, but unfortunately, its an example of the really well put together analyses that haven't been well considered by them.

But Jared Tobin, this kind of writing example would serve you well in any forum, gaming, professional or otherwise. Thanks again!

Something I thought of regarding the new icons and the amount of ‘clutter’ when in space due to the amount of icons now visible when undocked.

At the moment just about every icon for every item on grid (and in some cases beyond) is displayed when in space. This is fine as we can right click an icon and ‘add to overview’ so they are displayed in the overview.

So, how about if we had a tick box to reverse this and only displayed icons that are selected in the current overview tab?

Then we could have a sort of ‘display everything’ or ‘display only overview icons’ when in space.

This could also be enhanced further by adding a ‘shift’ tick box to allow shifting from one set of 5 tabs to a second set.

Would anything like this help or am I just shooting rainbows?

This is already possible.

If you configured your Overview correctly with a bunch of presets, you can simply chose to show brackets of your preset.
For instance, if you made a "ennemy drones only" preset and you right click -> load preset to Brackets on your current active TAB, it will only show the ennemy drones bracket in space, no station brackets, no gate brackets, nothing except what you chose to show in this preset.

So you can have 2 series of "presets" one serie for the overview itself, and another one specific for brackets.
Let's say you just want to see Frigs and Dessies in space brackets only, but you want to see everything on your overview :


Now let's say you're a Trader, Iteron pilot, moving stuff from HUBs to HUBs.
I'm not aware of what a Trader really needs to display so that might be stupid, that's just for the example :

Tada !

What could be interesting though, it's if we could get the same option for Brackets as we get for Overview :

Right click -> Add/Remove to/from Overview.
Right click -> Add/Remove to/from Brackets.
But with no in-space brackets i'm not sure it's possible to right click anymore :D
Just the "remove from Brackets" then.

Do not take that personally, but i think that your post is an example of "un-taught" capacity of the Overview, that leads to "un-adaptability" and hate towerds those changes.

I'm not saying ALL haters can't set their Overview properly, i think that for some people it might be the issue, not the icones them-selves.

Let us know when you've done your tests if it changed anything about your sight problems.

Sounds reasonable when Cholly explains it that way.

But most of all it highlights how subjective and random the new icons actually are - such an argumentation was not even possible within the old system.^^ Talking about intuitive design .....

I support though the call for ponies - but please make it a full range of horsies, from fluffy Shetland ponies to heavy cart horses.

A big problem with icons is they don't change size with distance. We can swivel the camera, sure, but icons are a full-time orthographic projection. Why?

When depth information is lost, the viewport becomes a minimap. Don't you think it's a problem we can't properly perceive a cluster of icons unless we swivel the camera?

I'm not saying it would solve all problems, but it would be an improvement in awareness. If icons made use of depth we would begin to perceive clouds of icons, not just walls.

You could make them pop back to standard size on mouseover, if you're concerned about ease of selection.

What also strikes me as odd / contradictory is you constantly render ship models, regardless of distance. If tactical overlay replaced ship textures with a bright color (according to overview settings), that would be an improvement too. I wouldn't mind that.

Did anybody ever wonder about that question, before this useless (and unasked for) update?

My one acct and one PLEX'd training alt expires in 6 hous due to this change. I can't see to play now and don't like being kicked in the teeth, and laughed at by a Dev, because of it. The arrogance of this whole situation beggars belief. Respect for those who stick it out to see if it changes. I understand your love of the game because I love what I can do here...even if I've just been here a little over 12 months. But I'll be GD'd if I pay a company to laugh at me and tell me f... off.

Respects all..see you again in a heartbeat if they fix this.