EVE General Discussion

C&P from helpdesk article at: https://ccpcommunity.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203208932-Weapon-and-Logoff-Timers

"Log-Off Timers

Logging off with no timers or flags will cause a ship to remain in space for 60 seconds after it has completed ongoing warps. This can be reduced to 30 seconds by utilizing the "Safe Logoff" feature. This is accessible by right clicking on the ships HUD and selecting the 'Log off Safely' option."

Note that safe logoff is not possible while targeted. Note that is says 'after completing ongoing warps', so if you start a warp and then logoff its even longer (as I said, not sure about precise numbers).

60 seconds, also know as a minute, really.

All of my "excuses" are at least based on facts as well as active gameplay I don't mind discussing.
Wish you could show me which of my points is wrong beyond simple 'HTFU' attitude.

I've only made assertions without delving into actual mechanics because that would take too long and be behind the scope of the current discussion. I will, once I take some time for that, try to elaborate - as argument based as I can, what's wrong with some of the current mechanics.

In terms of countering gankers - when considering situations where gankers and anti-gankers take the same grid at the same time, yes some of my arguments might seem risk-aware-silly-hisecbear and your/code's sound like you just want the risky eve we all like but the reality is a bit different (as you probably know).

For starters, gankers are the ones who have the major advantage of choosing their engagements and their timings. Any given time you can have as much as 4-5 known bumpers (and that's known ones) online and one cannot be sure about what they are doing, even if you run locator agents on them all. Reaction time for gankers can be as short as 5 minutes from them logging in (yes, I've seen this happen) and in order to counter that, you'd have to have multiple active fleets at any given time, regardless of gankers being on or offline. Would it be rational or even fun gameplay to patrol hisec for little or no reward in terms of content or isk in such a situation? I don't think your average guy would say so.

My biggest problem lies with the fact that you don't have to be actively playing, and still can participate in a gank which will take time an hour from now for a ship which is being bumped at this moment, due to the fact that a ship can be kept almost permanently in space thanks to bumps and aggression mechanics. Now, those mechanics make sense in lowsec/nullsec as they were created in order to remove logoffski trick for saving supers but in lower sec systems you can also freely shoot at your bumper with little or no consequences. So I'd say that perma-bump ability is a borderline exploit in freighter bumping in hi-sec (yes, I know, flames incoming).

Quite a few times I've seen folks logging in their ganker characters just to execute a gank or two and then logging off (to presumably their mains, ratting in nullsec or whatever else). Yes there are some potential counters, but any legal counters can be countered by a decent bumper pilot 99% of the time and that's not a good ratio for calling something a counter. Again, I refuse to accept that ganking bumper and concord drawing (which is not a counter but help to ganker) should be the only ways to counter ganks, for all the reasons I've already discussed here and elsewhere.
Add on top the fact that big ganking groups are usually backed up (through manpower and/or isk) by largest in-game coalition, and you can see the problem - if you're gonna be playing dedicated police, you won't be making much iskies if you make them at all and (like real police) and your content is very dependent on ganking groups being online - that certainly doesn't sound like fun, even in a laborious game such as EVE. You can't be missioning/incursioning and anti-ganking at the same time during your online time, and that is probably one of the reasons there is so little organisation and permanent folks in AG - its just not all that profitable or fun (since, unlike to gankers, content is not guaranteed).

Logical answer to this would be - well, find other content, which you can - but then you move away from main ganking areas and you can't play the police any more.

How could these issues be solved? Not sure, maybe there should be more reward for killing folks who have committed criminal acts? Some kind of liking of kilrights and bounties instead of the current horrible system which ask you to pay for a killright and which is exploitable (just look at them platinum insured orcas and freighters dieing every now and then, or guys sitting on gates with silly-high killright prices acting as a de-facto shield from activation for them). I have some ideas regarding this btw, but will work them out some more before posting them on forums (likely just to be trolled hard by your buddies).

I know I'm personally well off and bored enough of other stuff to put my time and effort into actively fighting ganks, but I'm guessing not many bittervets are like that and new guys will do other stuff - if you want industry and PvE, PvP won't be so interesting to you anyway, and if you want to PvP - there are certainly better choices out there.

Again, I'm writing all of this based on my almost 5 months of active and dedicated play fighting ganking groups, so very much based on facts and experience.

tl;dr another event where the economy as a whole isn't affected and the CCP who said "that's brilliant" looks foolish.