Intergalactic Summit

To put a finer point on it, Monsieur Ronin;

The delegation for the Minmatar Republic and the interests of slavery and its abolition failed to take the hard line stance you have chosen to take. Perhaps next time, you'll find the courage and will to step down from your throne and represent that stance yourself.

Until then, Godspeed.

And so are yours, you pitiful excuss for a forum troll.

I can attest to one Matari delegate who would not hesitate in gunning me down if she had the chance, but who conducted herself with the utmost decorum and civility. She has, frankly, done more to cause actual harm to the Empires you ever had. You're a soap box while she's an actual threat. You had a chance to participate and turned it down, she assisted in helping shape it. As much as I think she despises me with a passion, I hope this delegate understands when I say she's worth infinitely more to the Matari people then a thousand of you.

Now, in blunter language then my honourable opponant in the militia war Mr Antolliere. **** off.

Do be silent Ronin,
Your republic's Delegates understood the simple premise that immediate abolition would cripple both Matar and Amarr, They took the better route.

something in your narrow view on the world you would have failed to even see.

If you must be so blind, do so elsewhere, this thread concerns peace, not your arrogant warmongering.

A congratulations to the participants of the conference in reaching agreement on their submission to the CONCORD Assembly suggestions box. I am certain, as recent events have shown, the Inner Circle takes any and all capsuleer concerns seriously and will take the time and have the interest to address all the points raised with the gravity such an effort deserves.

I did have a chuckle about War Crimes when I imagined the delegates of Yulai signatories trying to agree on the wording of those articles. It's like deciding what kind of rope is preferred before hanging yourself from the gallows of self-implication.

Best not to hang yourself at all!

That old worn out lie does not fly. It would "bankrupt" the poor Minmatar Republic if slavery were abolished cry the idiots.

Did they not see the Rescue Fleet built in secret by these almost broke people that nearly toppled the most populous regime in New Eden?

Go ahead and keep believing that we are so broke we can not feed ourselves and then marvel as the next Rescue Fleet strikes against the demonic slavery cult to free more people.

Do you really think the slaves held in bondage are not an integral part of the economic system that supports the regime that holds them?

If anyone fears the financial repercussions of abolition it is the lazy slave holders who leech off the fruits of their labors.

Surely you took at least one class in economics during your education. Can it be their silver tongues have beguiled you to the point where you actually believe they hold people in generational slavery because they so care for their well being? Are you that gullible?

The man fighting against generational slavery is the one you call warmonger, and the gentleman slave holder with whom you have genteel conferences with to legalize slavery is the agent of peace? If you believe that you sir are no better then them.

No Abolition, No Peace!

It seemed far less dangerous than attempting to define a 'war crime' - for that reason I made the decision to specify only those actions that have already or are, in the future, defined as such by the Empires in both law and custom.

For example, it is clear that the Amarrians would not define enslavement of POWs as a war crime. It is clear that all signatories of the Yulai convention have so defined the shooting of surrendered POWs out of hand.

The republic and the elders are not one and the same Matar, YOU should know this, The elders lead the Matari, all of them.
The republic is but a part of the greater whole.

If you cannot grasp even that basic a fact, you should perhaps consider a new occupation.

Oh, and don't claim you know what occurred at the conference you failed to attend, or the character of those you refuse to interact with.

Abolition cannot, and will not, come either immediately, or at the threat of further attack.
Antagonising your opponent, then asking for a boon is never a viable plan.

Will the conflict continue? Almost certainly.
However, in all diplomatic matters, it is the calmer mind that prevails.
Your final line on the subject proves, without any doubt, that you choose war over diplomacy, conflict over peace.

I would bet that you are also of the mind that those who are currently enslaved would be better off dead than remaining in servitude.

You give the Matari people a bad reputation. It is those like you, who refuse to compromise even in the short term, who risk the possible future release of your kin for a dream of immediate emancipation that will not happen.
One day your people may be free, but your way is not the way that will bring this about.

your path leads only to ruin, for your own people, and others.
Walk softly, lest the beasts and traps along your chosen path find easy prey in one so blinded by rage.

When I consider the accusations that surrounded the CPD and now surround the SDII, I would say there is a difference between actions that are considered reprehensible and actions that would make one legally culpable to an independent authority. The shooting of surrendered Prisoners of War might be considered reprehensible, but until it is defined as such under articles of binding legal convention then such an action cannot be considered a breach or a crime by a CONCORD signatory -- irrespective if it might be a crime as outlined in a signatory nation's code of military conduct or similar document. The prosecution of the latter means the crime is prosecuted within the boundaries of the political sovereignty of a signatory, the former means prosecution of the crime outside the boundaries of the political sovereignty of a signatory.

To me, the proposals of the Pakhshi Peace Conference might be considered a success of independent political activism conducted by individuals but when such proposals require significant ceding of the political sovereignty and national interests of the belligerents involved in the name of compromise then they become nothing more than peaceful platitudes. The coming together of individuals with, "Bitter enmity," is suitable as a symbolic gesture but if the only conclusions drawn are hows and not whys then all that remains are empty gesturing and the aphorisms of wishful thinking.

In regards to the Caldari attitude towards slavery, it should be noted that slavery is illegal in the State, and has always been illegal in the State. Transporting slaves through the State is also illegal.

However, it is also the policy of the State that it is not the place of the Caldari State to dictate the internal cultural beliefs or internal political choices of foreign nations.


As for the Minmatar Republic being able to support their own population again in numbers, because they could afford to construct the Elder's fleets, I will simply point out that the funds to construct those fleets were, interestingly enough, probably appropriated aid payments from the Federation. As those payments were intended to build up infrastructure in the Republic so that it could stand on its own as a functioning nation, I suspect that the Federation will be reluctant to repeat them.

I also would point out that the Republic also managed to completely lose as much or more than one-third of the Elder Fleet. This seems an even more unwise investment, in retrospect, as the Elder's invasion was thus cut short, and largely a failure, not to mention the loss of life incurred - thanks to the superweapon, mostly on the Minmatar side.

Lastly, given the Abel Jarek affair, I suspect that many Minmatar will never desire peace with the Empire. There are, roughly, more Minmatar in the Empire than in the Republic to begin with. Even if abolition were enacted, no one has yet demonstrated how a nation might assimilate a larger population than its own. I suspect the next demand might be for Imperial planets and systems, to accommodate the population.

And that is assuming that they desire to go. It is more probable that the greater portion of the Minmatar in Imperial space would desire to stay. In which case, the demand would be to turn them over. And if they were turned over, well, so many, like Abel Jarek, believe in the Amarrian faith that then the reason for war would probably boil down to vengeance on the part of the Minmatar for the displacement of their own culture in the minds of their own people (while conducting pogroms against those same people) and the Empire would be likely to look on Minmatar mistreatment of those faithful to the Amarrian doctrine as reason for war as well.

Such are the difficulties of attempting to reclaim an entire population, either in the Amarrian sense, or the Minmatar desire to liberate their fellow Minmatar - whether those Minmatar wish to be liberated or not.

Of course, the Amarr made this bed, and I'm not sorry, as a Caldari, to see them so uncomfortable in it. Then again, there are quite a few Minmatar who, I think, prefer violence to reason even if reason is likely to give them a solution and violence isn't. The Amarr aren't the only problem with the Republic, not even the biggest one, in fact. But they're a convenient reason not to fix the problems that the Minmatar would have anyway.

Some parts leave a bitter taste, but most medicine dose. Ronin, this is a starting point, and will lead to the freedom of our people faster then ordinance ever would, so swallow your pride a bit and try to build off of what was offered.