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Rifter Fit Question

Author
Amarkir Krindrik
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-06-29 15:47:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Amarkir Krindrik
I am aiming for this Rifter fit; http://eve.battleclinic.com/view_loadout.php?id=3546

I was wondering which skills I need to train to even fit this stuff onto my Rifter. I have all of the modules except the Arbalest launcher and the gyrostabilizer (getting them soon) but fitting the warp scrambler is too much for the ship's capacitor to handle. It makes the capacitor 'unstable' even with very few other mods attached.

How do I fit all these modules while keeping the capacitor/power level stable?
EDIT: It's quite an old fit (2007), is it viable for beginner low-sec pvp?

I should also mention I'm substituting T1 modules for the T2 stuff because trial accounts can't use T2 mods.

"Fitting laser pewpew beams to a Cormorant is a sin." - Wendrika Hydreiga

Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-06-29 16:00:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Azda Ja
For starters, forget about cap stability when it comes to PvP. Frigate fights are quick and deadly with few exceptions, the only way to make a cap stable fit is to sacrifice other, more immediately useful fitting choices as options. Some ships and fit shine with a Capacitor Booster, which is a module that uses charges to 'inject' power into the capacitor. Some MWD kite fits use them to keep their MWD running for a long time, dual rep fits also use these to great effect to get monstrous repair rates. These however are exceptions. Most of the time a fit isn't going to have much longer than a minute of cap life with everything running. Here is the key, you almost never need to have EVERYTHING running at one time. Proper module management will do far more for your cap than a bad fit.

When it comes to the fit linked, it's alright, no glaring awful choices like fitting lasers instead of ACs, but it's only sorta kinda okay. There aren't any situations where I can see it excelling. It's also visibly old since it's not using an 'Ancillary Armor Repairer'. It's an armor rep that uses charges called Nanite Paste, enough for 8 cycles. This repairer has a number of advantages over a T2 rep, for starters, it flat out reps more per cycle. It also uses very little cap. It is however not an indefinite source of rep like the T2, when it's out of charges, it can still work, but much worse. It will rep less than the T2, and use a LOT of cap when empty. That can be enough to let you win a close fight of course, and this is the key again, you don't need to repair indefinitely, you just need to repair long enough for the other guy to get dead, and get you out alive.

Grrr.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-06-29 16:01:22 UTC
Two things. This fit has no rigs (bad, you lose potential), and cap stability is not required in PvP. You only need cap for one fight usually, which is normally less than a minute with a frig. For current fits and some advice, please have a look here: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Rifter

In general, train all required skills to 3 (those to 5 if they unlock better variants).

I'm my own NPC alt.

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-06-29 16:14:01 UTC
EFT (Eve Fitting Tool) and EveMon are 2 apps that can help you with this.

In EFT you can import loadouts or make them yourself you can also import your character's skills and adjust your character's skills to make a loadout fit. Then you can export the character to EveMon and have a skill plan for how long it will take you to get to that point.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#5 - 2015-06-29 16:15:32 UTC
Adding to the above: the repper in that fit isn't meant to tank the full incoming damage, it's meant to be able to dump some excess cap into it while it lasts and then stop doing it and as such it doesn't matter if it runs out in 40 seconds. Also, it's a scram kiter which generally won't get hit hard., if done right.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-06-29 17:00:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Azda Ja wrote:
This repairer has a number of advantages over a T2 rep, for starters, it flat out reps more per cycle. It also uses very little cap.

Just a note, the ancillary armor rep uses the same amount of cap/cycle as a tech 2 rep, and uses the same amount of cap whether or not it is loaded with nanite paste. However, your effective reps/cap is higher while you have paste loaded (and lower when you do not). If you just leave it cycling it will drain your cap at the same rate as a tech 2 rep.

This is different from the ancillary shield booster, which does not use any cap at all when loaded with cap booster charges but uses a massive amount of cap to run when it runs out of charges (boosting the same HP amount). With this one you need to be careful because you can easily drain your cap dry if you accidentally leave it running without booster charges.

PS If you are still worried about cap life, there are some skills to improve it. Capacitor Management and Capacitor Systems Operation are good skills to have trained up for any ship. The Afterburner skill will also help some for this particular fit.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Memphis Baas
#7 - 2015-06-29 18:36:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
And to answer your question, there usually are two skill-related ways to make a module fit better in a ship:

1. The capacitor-related skills are in the Engineering category, and if you browse the market you'll see a skill reduces capacitor recharge time, and another one increases capacitor size. You can train both of these support skills to 3, 4, or even 5 (once you get into the bigger or more advanced T2 ships). Pretty much all the skills in Engineering are super-useful for fitting all your ships better, and are typically recommended for training.

2. The other way isn't always available, but a module's specific skill sometimes gives a bonus to energy usage. In your case, the skill Propulsion Jamming gives you
Quote:
Skill at using propulsion/warpdrive jammers. 5% Reduction to Warp Scrambler, Warp Disruptor, and Stasis Web capacitor need per skill level.
So training that skill higher means your scram will use less cap. And you're not limited to the warp scrambler; your guns, shield/armor repair, and propulsion will use cap too, and if you reduce those, you may have enough cap for "stable."
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2015-06-29 19:16:41 UTC
here's a question I have been quite curious about for a while.

Op, why did you think you needed to be cap stable?
I would genuinely like to know, I had my own reasons as to why I thought so but I'd like to know yours.
Haruchai Khan
Doomheim
#9 - 2015-06-29 19:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Haruchai Khan
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
here's a question I have been quite curious about for a while.

Op, why did you think you needed to be cap stable?
I would genuinely like to know, I had my own reasons as to why I thought so but I'd like to know yours.



Well, I can answer for myself - who believed the same thing. First, when starting out, it's worrying when anything goes red, and if one tries out early fits (with low skills) the capacitor number on the fitting screen goes red quickly, and the wording reinforces this is bad. When one fights a NPC and the capacitor drains, leaving one unable to fight on, the message is reinforced.

So I spent a lot of time trying for fits that would keep the green 'stable' message. I trained up the skills noted in the posts above, but at no time did I consider, or get advised (or read) that cap instability would be any other than insta-death by NPC or player. I learnt to occasionally switch off modules, but that seemed a bit daft.

Now you have all given me something else to think about, as if my brain isn't already exploding with overload. My cranial capacitor is completely unstable after six weeks of this game, and you lot have just depleted it again! Shocked

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.

Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-06-29 20:15:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Praxis Ginimic
youtube of trial acnt rifter with fitting advice, skills needed, cap issues addressed and some really good fights to show you how to fly it. Big smile
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-06-29 20:46:40 UTC
Cara Forelli wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:
This repairer has a number of advantages over a T2 rep, for starters, it flat out reps more per cycle. It also uses very little cap.

Just a note, the ancillary armor rep uses the same amount of cap/cycle as a tech 2 rep, and uses the same amount of cap whether or not it is loaded with nanite paste.

...Oops. Another day, another new internet spaceship detail learned.

Grrr.

Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#12 - 2015-06-29 21:47:27 UTC
Personally, I tend to prefer regular reppers over ancillary for general PvP. Active rep is kinda for longer fights to begin with, if you're in "eh, I just have to take a few hits before the fight's done" mode a buffer tank might serve you better, shoving an EANM or something in that slot for a bit maybe if nothing else will fit.

This isn't to say that ancillaries are useless or anything, they're just... more situational. Like, they're crazy good if you're the lead-in tackle for a fleet, where you really MIGHT have to hold on for dear life for 8 or so repper cycles until the cavalry finishes warping in and you can blow up in peace. As a sort of general rule, though, active is sort of a long-haul thing.
Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2015-06-29 23:15:05 UTC
In solo and small gang pvp the anc rep is actually extremely effective. In almost any frig 1v1 brawl you will have enough time to empty your 8 cycles and likely at least 4 if you are kiting (so long as your opponent know what he is doing). Thats why you see fits like the asb/aar breaxher and the hull tanked/aar comet and atron
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-06-30 00:01:31 UTC
Lost Greybeard wrote:
Personally, I tend to prefer regular reppers over ancillary for general PvP.

I don't know man. An ancillary rep really would have rounded out that PVP hacking vexor fit. You should look into that.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#15 - 2015-06-30 01:27:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Lost Greybeard
Cara Forelli wrote:
Lost Greybeard wrote:
Personally, I tend to prefer regular reppers over ancillary for general PvP.

I don't know man. An ancillary rep really would have rounded out that PVP hacking vexor fit. You should look into that.


It's almost like sometimes people just stick random crap from their hanger on a ship instead of planning it out in great detail when they're just dicking around with exploration instead of actually seeking PvP, or something.

Edit: Somewhat ironically, the kill you're probably referring to was mostly an update resetting the damned overview so other ships didn't show up, which is the default setting for some reason. Probably deserved it anyway for tossing together random crap and going into low, but meh.
Amarkir Krindrik
Doomheim
#16 - 2015-07-04 14:02:39 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
here's a question I have been quite curious about for a while.

Op, why did you think you needed to be cap stable?
I would genuinely like to know, I had my own reasons as to why I thought so but I'd like to know yours.


I thought the cap had to be stable to keep the ship flying. I found out that you don't lol.
I can't imagine needing all modules activated at once so I now see that cap stability isn't really an issue here.

"Fitting laser pewpew beams to a Cormorant is a sin." - Wendrika Hydreiga

Netan MalDoran
Hail To The King
The Silent Syndicate
#17 - 2015-07-04 16:28:58 UTC
Besides other advice, the only thing that I would possibly change (You can try both) is the guns, I would prefer using 150mm autocannons because they have better tracking, but the 200mm's would be great against dessies and slow frigates.

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2015-07-05 21:56:43 UTC
The Rifter used to be good I'm told. It is not now.

Aim for a Tristan and then comet; if you must fly minmatar a breacher or a firetail.
Netan MalDoran
Hail To The King
The Silent Syndicate
#19 - 2015-07-05 22:00:48 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The Rifter used to be good I'm told. It is not now.


Not true, before it was REALLY good, then it got nerfed and is just, good.

"Your security status has been lowered." - Hell yeah it was!

Falcon's truth

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-07-05 23:38:33 UTC
Netan MalDoran wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The Rifter used to be good I'm told. It is not now.


Not true, before it was REALLY good, then it got nerfed and is just, good.


I have never seen a solo rifter in lowsec I don't think. And very rarely as part of a gang.
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