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Trading
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Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-06-27 14:19:50 UTC
Hello,

One month ago I've built an trader alt. After a few day of trade skilling, I gave him 500M and started to trade with it, with two basic rules :

- Don't trade goods with less than 10% margin ;
- Don't buy more than 10% of the average daily volume traded.

I traded any items I encountered respecting these two rules, mostly under the "Research & Manufacturing" tab. I made 1.2B of it, which doesn't seem too bad. I haven't been doing any spreadshit or research.

So, I think I'll try to make trade my main income source. I gave an other billion to my alt, and I'm looking to be more efficient, that's why I come with a few questions.

First, sometimes the margin of an item drop within a few hours. Is there a way to know it's going to happen ? And is it better to sell as soon as possible with the reduced margin, or to wait the sellout prices to raise again ?

I've been noticing that when trading produced items (by 'produced' I mean built from a BPC or a BPO) it's very hard to get my buy orders filled (especially with T2 stuff). Should I avoid these kind of items ?

I've come to think that it would be very useful to know an item's production cost. I guess it can be achieved with spreadshits, but I have no clue on how to do so. I'm currently using Open Office, but I've never touched the calc sheets. If you have some tutorials for me it would be great.

Finally, I'd like to know how much I paid for a stack of a given item. Let's say I have a buy order for 1000 "A" item, and let's say that the buyers' price raise twice before my order is completed. Is there an easy way / tool to know exactly how much I've paid for the entire stack of 1000 "A" items ? Maybe spreadshits again ?

Thank you for reading, I hope you'll be able to help me out :)

Fly safe o7

I'm not a native English speaker and I'm not very confident about my English. If there's something you don't understand or if I'm somewhere a bit rude please let me know and I'll try to do better.
Cista2
EVE Museum
#2 - 2015-06-27 15:55:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Cista2
It sounds like you are doing really well :)
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
First, sometimes the margin of an item drop within a few hours. Is there a way to know it's going to happen ? And is it better to sell as soon as possible with the reduced margin, or to wait the sellout prices to raise again ?

Noone can answer the question directly. It depends on your feel for where that market will be going, and the production costs are of course a large factor in that.

I have one advise, which is that money should be working for you at all times. In my own trading i never calculate profits or losses. Once an item has been bought, it represents no cost. When it sells, it represents 100 % profit. The important thing to measure is not what the % profit was on that particular item after you have been sitting on it, the important factor is how effectively your money is working for you. Often I will sell things with a loss without knowing it.

The decisions you have to make go like this: this item that I already *own*, do I sell it now for x isk and use the money for something profitable, or do I sell it 1 week from now for x+10% isk. Which of these alternatives will result in me having the most money 1 month from now, 6 months from now?
Notice that the price that you paid for this item that you already own, is completely irrelevant for the decision.

My channel: "Signatures" -
Poxs62
StarTrucks
Prometheus Allegiance
#3 - 2015-06-27 17:35:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Poxs62
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:


I've been noticing that when trading produced items (by 'produced' I mean built from a BPC or a BPO) it's very hard to get my buy orders filled (especially with T2 stuff). Should I avoid these kind of items ?

I've come to think that it would be very useful to know an item's production cost. I guess it can be achieved with spreadshits, but I have no clue on how to do so. I'm currently using Open Office, but I've never touched the calc sheets. If you have some tutorials for me it would be great.



Finally, I'd like to know how much I paid for a stack of a given item. Let's say I have a buy order for 1000 "A" item, and let's say that the buyers' price raise twice before my order is completed. Is there an easy way / tool to know exactly how much I've paid for the entire stack of 1000 "A" items ? Maybe spreadshits again ?



Thank you for reading, I hope you'll be able to help me out :)

Fly safe o7

I'm not a native English speaker and I'm not very confident about my English. If there's something you don't understand or if I'm somewhere a bit rude please let me know and I'll try to do better.



BP Calcualator < use this to work out cost to build, if your not sure either go with me 10 on t1 or me 6 on t2 items, but that will give you a rough idea cost of the mineral cos



There are a few apps that you can use, personally i like evehq for their simple reports that show me total profit based on items sold for items, i also eve-mogul (which is cost based) but if you search for eve out of game addons there are lots that can do this for you, (look in the technology section of the forum and if you find one always worth tipping the developer if its a free app for their work)
Erika Mizune
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#4 - 2015-06-28 06:44:59 UTC
As one mentioned above, you can't really know when the margin is going to change. You can get an idea and estimate by looking at the price history for that item. With market trading, you want to keep up to date on what you are putting buy orders up at too, check your orders at least maybe a couple times a day I'd say, that's what I do and adjust if I need to.

Personally I focus a lot in ammo and meta/t1 mods, that's what works for me, I also invest in a high value stuff as well, you just have to scout and see what works for you. I don't really use any 3rd party program for myself, tho I do keep spreadsheets for what I have up; but market trading is def profitable. I stopped doing it as much lately with stuff going on in null (op-sec stuff). But, I just recently started training one of my alts in trade skills, so now she just roams between trade hubs, gave her 50mil-ish just to play around with since I was bored, and I was up quite a bit when I finished, heh.

Oh and when I go between trade hubs: I also look up the "npc buyback" items that some put up at insanely low prices compared to what the npc buys them back at. Heh, I made quite a bit off that as well XD (Look under trade goods).

Former DJ & Manager of Eve Radio | Blog | Sounds of New Eden | Twitch | Twitter
Erika Mizune
Lucifer's Hammer
A Band Apart.
#5 - 2015-06-28 07:01:47 UTC
Oh and https://eve-central.com/ can be your friend as well.

Former DJ & Manager of Eve Radio | Blog | Sounds of New Eden | Twitch | Twitter
Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-06-30 09:27:47 UTC
Thanks for those advices, I'll try to make some money with them heh :)
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#7 - 2015-07-01 10:17:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Do Little
If you want an in game tool to show estimated cost and selling price - open the info sheet for the item, select the industry tab and then open the info sheet for the blueprint. Make sure the manufacturing tab is selected and click view in industry. You'll see a red circle with a line through it to the left of the blueprint - hover over that and it will show the bill of materials and estimated cost. To the right, hover over the picture of the item to see the estimated selling price. Edit - the industry tool does not include invention cost - for modules this will be between 50K and 200K per module depending on the number of datacores used in the invention. Since I make the stuff I sell, I add this adjustment automatically when checking profitability.

I'm not sure how CCP calculates these estimates but they are all I use and I am quite happy with the results.

On the market sheet you can use the price history tab to judge where the market is in its cycle. If current selling price is above the 30 day moving average you should assume that it will go lower before it goes higher. If the current price is below the moving average, you have a buying opportunity - but it might take a while. Also make sure you stay abreast of game news. Changes to the game will change the market cycle for any impacted product.
Triakis Cadelanne
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-07-01 10:21:01 UTC
Do Little wrote:

On the market sheet you can use the price history tab to judge where the market is in its cycle. If current selling price is above the 30 day moving average you should assume that it will go lower before it goes higher. If the current price is below the moving average, you have a buying opportunity - but it might take a while. Also make sure you stay abreast of game news. Changes to the game will change the market cycle for any impacted product.


Good to know :)
Makhpella
Bad Taste.
#9 - 2015-07-02 10:53:41 UTC
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
Hello,
One month ago I've built an trader alt. After a few day of trade skilling, I gave him 500M and started to trade with it, with two basic rules :

- Don't trade goods with less than 10% margin ;
- Don't buy more than 10% of the average daily volume traded.


Good trader has no rules.
Alt Pilot1
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-07-05 06:28:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Alt Pilot1
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
Hello,

One month ago I've built an trader alt. After a few day of trade skilling, I gave him 500M and started to trade with it, with two basic rules :

- Don't trade goods with less than 10% margin ;
- Don't buy more than 10% of the average daily volume traded.

I traded any items I encountered respecting these two rules, mostly under the "Research & Manufacturing" tab. I made 1.2B of it, which doesn't seem too bad. I haven't been doing any spreadshit or research.

So, I think I'll try to make trade my main income source. I gave an other billion to my alt, and I'm looking to be more efficient, that's why I come with a few questions.

First, sometimes the margin of an item drop within a few hours. Is there a way to know it's going to happen ? And is it better to sell as soon as possible with the reduced margin, or to wait the sellout prices to raise again ?

I've been noticing that when trading produced items (by 'produced' I mean built from a BPC or a BPO) it's very hard to get my buy orders filled (especially with T2 stuff). Should I avoid these kind of items ?

I've come to think that it would be very useful to know an item's production cost. I guess it can be achieved with spreadshits, but I have no clue on how to do so. I'm currently using Open Office, but I've never touched the calc sheets. If you have some tutorials for me it would be great.

Finally, I'd like to know how much I paid for a stack of a given item. Let's say I have a buy order for 1000 "A" item, and let's say that the buyers' price raise twice before my order is completed. Is there an easy way / tool to know exactly how much I've paid for the entire stack of 1000 "A" items ? Maybe spreadshits again ?

Thank you for reading, I hope you'll be able to help me out :)

Fly safe o7

I'm not a native English speaker and I'm not very confident about my English. If there's something you don't understand or if I'm somewhere a bit rude please let me know and I'll try to do better.



I personally didn't use any spreadsheets for trading, didn't see a need to be that organized =P But it is necessary for manufacturing, and running pos.

For filling the buy orders you would need to look at the regional quantity to see how easy it would get filled.

For example regional buy orders (within empire) for cruisers and battlecruisers are pretty easy to fill. They're also pretty easy to sell because people buy them all the time.

Same with minerals. Multi-Jump and regional buy orders for minerals get filled pretty fast (or at least they did when I was trading.......used to make a killing from minerals trading. But I think this was before they started banning all the bot miners, and before the insurance scam nerf). But make sure you set a minimum quantity - because you don't want to get 1 unit of mexallon everywhere.

If you pull up the Star Map - any system with a higher number of "pilots jumped in the last hour", is a good potential system for trading.

If someone keeps undercutting you, then just ignore that system but keep the sell order. There are plenty of other systems. Undercutting by 0.1 isk is a waste of time. But for the regional buy orders, you would need to keep updating it with 0.1
Mike Rothschild
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-07-05 09:32:18 UTC
Well, I could show you my trading spreadsheet if you want ^^ contact me ingame!

This is just in case you want to know how it looks like ^^

Rule n°1 : "No one says anything "just so" and everything that is being said or written is an expression of the inner self." Pixie Tickle