Wormholes

Just a thought I've had since the new structures were announced. Would it be possible to have a local market in WH space if you have the right POS up? It would be very helpful for larger corps to facilitate local corp economies and logistics, and it would allow some corps to function as WH marketeers, selling goods to people whom they're connected to. I doubt very seriously it is being considered by CCP, but it absolutely should be, if for nothing else than to allow corp members to easily sell to and buy from their own corpmates.

Your jumping down his throat for no real reason. One of the new deployable structures functions as a market hub (sov rework stuff). Some wormholers put forward issues regarding starting markets up as it would turn into free Intel. But it's on ccps radar in some shape ATM. The implications and the stations haven't been hashed out regarding wormholes ATM.

Would it be cool, yes, but only if the coproations had dynamic control over who got to see what's on market and what is not on market in a wormhole (no easy Intel).

We don't know what's going on with it yet.

It would be absolutely critical to control market visibility, and I'm not sure if the engine allows for that. But if so it would be wildly useful just for making money and controlling logistics. So many times I am in need of probes, or bombs, or shuttles, etc. And I have to run around asking or make a trip to HS. I'd willingly pay huge markups to avoid that.

I think your concerns are totally valid, but hauling must still occur even with hubs. Blue loot has to leave, even if a corp sets up an order for blue loot it still has to go to HS some time. Components and minerals, especially trit, have to be brought in and it's usually easier and cheaper to bring them in from kspace than mine them in wspace. I think it would be an improvement, but I would be interested to hear thoughts from CCP on it as well.

The real reason is that I fear change.

That being said you said there's a deployable structure that acts as a market hub? Can you link this please I guess I missed this update. If there is such a structure I guess it could make sense for WH space. I thought he was leaning towards stations and certain J systems being market hubs which I would not like.

I may have misunderstood

Interesting I'll +1 it you would need something to come up when you enter the hole that says a market is active or no one will know it's there to use

We can assume that wormhole markets will be tiny and for the most part, solely for that corporation/alliance (outside of some freeport that might show up).

The most obvious pvp move that can be done would be to seed a wormhole, initiate an attack, and then decimate their internal market (aka buy all the crap, relist for 100X the price).

While this sounds comically idiotic, it happens pretty regularly. Some entities have so much that they could eliminate a internal market by doing this. Yes we can protect against it but why should wormholers have to suffer through back alley ways of putting up and managing orders.

The "defense" to this would be to put up orders that are 100X the price then take verbal orders or do corp refunds or some stupid crap like that.

There needs to be some flexibility regarding who can see and who can't, else its basically just local, market version.

Buy a single bullet, know where the market is, who'se in there, and when they get evicted or move the market.

Yea there will be issues if we cannot set a Visibility to Corporation, Visibility to Corp/Alliance, Visibility All setting on these things.

Thera?

Phoenix, in what world would a corp put their necessary defensive supplies in the public market? That would be hilarious, but I doubt that anyone's dumb/naive enough to do it. Then again....

Its not just defensive supplies, its any supplies. If they are going to implement a market, there needs to be some safeguards similar to how freeports work (you block who you don't want to dock? You should be able to block who you don't want to see your orders). Wormhole markets are purely local orders for that wormhole itself. The difference is that the orders are tiny, the markets only for a specific few, and there is a greater ability to obtain intel on who is there, who is selling, what they are selling, when you roll into them (because hell it'll all be in your assets tab), etc etc. It would become a useless feature for wspace.

Market PVP in wormhole space basically removes any semblance of having an actual market or market hub at all. People (wspace corps as well as kspace corps) have the tools to roll a 1 day alt, throw him into a hole with a shuttle and wipe out the internal market of a single system, without the wormholer knowing who did it, or why.

The results doesn't matter because as the eviction goes forward, assets (magically transfer) to a station somewhere ready for the market pvper to pickup (if the proposed nullsec changes go forward, assuming they won't make an exception for wspace, and I am also making an assumption regarding this).

This would basically makes the concept of having a local market pointless, worthless, a hindrance and a security threat.

We see this type of market pvp happen everyday. A new doctrine comes out, a alt buys up the entire supply in that doctrine at the enemys staging system, relists it for 2 to 3 times the price. An Atron turns into 1 million isk, a Cerberus, 500 mil? There are significant differences regarding wspace and k, those being in methods of resupply (Kspace has wormholes, cynos, blackops cynos, freighters, contract delivery (black frog) and gates. Wspace.. just wormholes, and many times just 1 wormhole that can be endlessly camped in, massed, blockaded, or so small a basic t1 hauler couldn't fit into it. Nullsec has the ability (ibet it kinda sucks) to locally collect, mine, moongoo harvest all the resources they need to make Everything they could ever want in kspace, except T3's. Wormholers are stuck importing what they need to build (because there is no moongoo, and no we don't want it), but ontop of that, the basics for industry in wspace is hampered by basic bugs (assemble a built t3? need a station). The basic goods to construct weaponry for those t3's are still stuck in the realm of requiring Kspace moongoo (which has to be imported), without the kspace benefits (thukker assembly array, Sov Upgrades). There is no wspace equivalent to the Kspace capabilities, logistics, equipment, or bonuses. Kspace markets, if someone pvp's it and decimates every bullet you have in system, 30 minutes later and your market is back in full for the cost of jump freighter fuel, a basic escort, a carrier jump, an external contract with a jump freighter service.... Wspace.....

Add a market and let wormholers actually post orders in their own system? Without a basic (Show to others yes/no) option, its completely worthless and will solely be used to grief to the ends of the earth.

No actual thought has been put forward regarding how these things will negatively effect wspace.

I hate writing these posts because all I see (and fear) is the amount of useless features or pointless changes that are coming to wspace.