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Which Dual Paired turret based T1 BSs can do C3 WHs?
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Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-06-25 08:24:32 UTC
Hello K-Space Dwellers. I need help trying to decide which dual paired T1 turret based BSs can do C3 wormholes. I know 2 RR domis can do it, but I'm looking for turret based T1 BSs (I have limited skills in drones). To my knowledge I'm thinking 2 Maelstroms, Hyperions or Rokhs. Can someone please give me some feedback on whether either of these ships or some others can do C3's in dual pairs and some possible fits?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-06-25 09:28:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Issue is that you need your highs for rr mods and cap transfers on paired BSs which is why people use domis and not turret boats
If you dont actually care about pairing them, just local tank them both enough to tank the sites and make sure theyre cap stable *shrug*

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-06-25 10:59:17 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Issue is that you need your highs for rr mods and cap transfers on paired BSs which is why people use domis and not turret boats
If you dont actually care about pairing them, just local tank them both enough to tank the sites and make sure theyre cap stable *shrug*


Yes, I wasn't planning on using them with RR in mind, just using both with local tanks. Do you happen to know of any T1 BSs capable of this? Also how much cap stability is needed?

I know the Marauders can do it, but I'm not in a WH corp and would just end up losing a 1.5 bill isk ship within days, which is why I'm attempting to do it in 2 cheap T2 Fitted T1 BSs (the gankers can kill me in those all they want).
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#4 - 2015-06-25 11:38:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
You can fit RR-shieldpests and roll through. Want T2 800s though, shooting upholders/preservers without barrage is tedious. (Unless you're one of the overzealous that actually move in c3 anoms)

Segraina Skyblazer wrote:
Yes, I wasn't planning on using them with RR in mind, just using both with local tanks. Do you happen to know of any T1 BSs capable of this? Also how much cap stability is needed?


The neuting in c3s ranges from -6 to -30 afaik, the -30 being very short term though since it's just upholders that die in 2 volleys. T1 BS and local tank will leave you with rather expensive losses in comparison since Pith B to X-type modules are required to get decent tank while retaining gank (cause cap efficiency and what not). RR works just fine with meta mods. One RR-mod is enough to tank through anoms, a second is active during the last wave in solar cell/outpost frontier (in case of RR-pests with 2 invulns and an EM-ward for tank).
Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#5 - 2015-06-25 16:10:50 UTC
I would avoid cap guns in the scenario you are describing. So mael or something missile based?
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#6 - 2015-06-25 18:25:14 UTC
Any should do it, as the dps should kill the crap before they exert any significant neut pressure.

You just want ones that have longer ranges ( a blaster battleships a bad idea). You also need something to deal with fast circling ships ( a set of drones should suffice ).

I'd consider trying it with a 3rd friend nearby in a logi ship solely there to help you if you can't kill the sleepers.

Optimally, try it, but most if not all of them should work if you can reach them.

Yaay!!!!
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-06-26 01:22:02 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
You can fit RR-shieldpests and roll through. Want T2 800s though, shooting upholders/preservers without barrage is tedious. (Unless you're one of the overzealous that actually move in c3 anoms)

Segraina Skyblazer wrote:
Yes, I wasn't planning on using them with RR in mind, just using both with local tanks. Do you happen to know of any T1 BSs capable of this? Also how much cap stability is needed?


The neuting in c3s ranges from -6 to -30 afaik, the -30 being very short term though since it's just upholders that die in 2 volleys. T1 BS and local tank will leave you with rather expensive losses in comparison since Pith B to X-type modules are required to get decent tank while retaining gank (cause cap efficiency and what not). RR works just fine with meta mods. One RR-mod is enough to tank through anoms, a second is active during the last wave in solar cell/outpost frontier (in case of RR-pests with 2 invulns and an EM-ward for tank).


The Tempest can do it you say? Hmm, I had that one rated the weakest of the T1 BSs due to it having 2 low damage bonuses. Would two of these work?

Highs
6x 800 Repeating Cannon II + barrage ~ 697 dps @ 6.6km + 43.3km
2x Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II

Mids
1x 100MN AB II
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x Heavy Cap Booster II
1x Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster

Lows
1x DC II
3x Gyro II
1x TE II
1x Co-Processor II

Rigs
1x Large Egress Port Maximizer II
1x Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
1x Large Processor Overclocking Unit I

Drones
5x Hammerheads II
5x Warriors II
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-06-26 01:25:32 UTC
Do any of you guys know if the 2 Rokhs can do these C3's with that 100km + optimal range?
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#9 - 2015-06-26 01:45:49 UTC
Rail Rokhs cannot. Blaster Rokhs could tank it easily but range is a problem unless you move.

Also remember the Tempest is being buffed. The ROF goes from 5% to 7.5% - so 25% overall to 37.5%. So your shield pest should get ~100 DPS more, so 925-ish. Which is still fairly anaemic compared to various other ships *cough* Rattler *cough* but it's better than now.

~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-06-26 02:47:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Segraina Skyblazer
Trinkets friend wrote:
Rail Rokhs cannot. Blaster Rokhs could tank it easily but range is a problem unless you move.

Also remember the Tempest is being buffed. The ROF goes from 5% to 7.5% - so 25% overall to 37.5%. So your shield pest should get ~100 DPS more, so 925-ish. Which is still fairly anaemic compared to various other ships *cough* Rattler *cough* but it's better than now.


The Rattlers huh, well normally this ship would be my first choice until I took a glance at the KBs. For some reason this ship along with Marauders draw a lot of attention, so I rather not indulge some gankers fetish for slaughter when doing C3's. The T1 BSs are the most expendable ships atm, so I see no reason not to put these ships to good use in WHs.

Care to explain why you say 2 rail Rokh can't do C3s but the blaster Rokh can?

What about a combination of a Tempest and a rail Rokh?
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-06-26 05:58:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Miton
Have you ever tried hitting anything with 425mm rails? The sites have frigs in them you know...
Maybe if you warped them in 150km apart.

Also, if you can fly a tempest, you can fly a maelstrom so you should never fly a tempest.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Jezza McWaffle
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#12 - 2015-06-26 11:07:26 UTC
Any T1 BS can do them, honestly remote capping Nightmares would be one way or Rattlers, decent tracking, tank and high dps. If you can kill them quick enough you dont need tank.

Wormholes worst badass | Checkout my Wormhole blog
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-06-26 12:10:25 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Have you ever tried hitting anything with 425mm rails? The sites have frigs in them you know...
Maybe if you warped them in 150km apart.

Also, if you can fly a tempest, you can fly a maelstrom so you should never fly a tempest.


I thought they buffed Rails, but I guess they only buffed the mediums, sigh.

Yea that Tempest does seem kinda suckish to me even with that little buff and the Maelstrom is a fitting nightmare with that limited CPU, another sigh. The Hyperion and Abaddon have the worst cap recharge of any of the BSs and .......... geez the T1 BSs needs a lot of help, when will they get a major rebalance? I guess the Domis were the best choices afterall......if only I trained drones...., another long sigh.
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-06-26 12:22:18 UTC
Jezza McWaffle wrote:
Any T1 BS can do them, honestly remote capping Nightmares would be one way or Rattlers, decent tracking, tank and high dps. If you can kill them quick enough you dont need tank.


It seems that everything Faction and above is a gank magnet and I'm also very cheap.
Zand Vor
OpSec.
Wrong Hole.
#15 - 2015-06-26 12:53:52 UTC
Segraina Skyblazer wrote:
Jezza McWaffle wrote:
Any T1 BS can do them, honestly remote capping Nightmares would be one way or Rattlers, decent tracking, tank and high dps. If you can kill them quick enough you dont need tank.


It seems that everything Faction and above is a gank magnet and I'm also very cheap.


It doesn't matter what you are in, you will be a gank target with just your ship on dscan. Just a fact of Eve-life :)

I prefer cruisers for what you are trying to do, such as a decent fitted Ishtar, Gila, or a Cerb (maybe a Vagabond? I'm not a gun bunny) is going to cost you about the same as your two BSes, will be able to do the sites, and you can place your 2nd toon as a cloaky scout on a WH. Cruisers can get the hell out of dodge way faster than two BSes, so as long as u are mashing dscan and being careful you might avoid the gank before it happens.

Please fix wormhole combat sites: c1 20mil - c2 40 mil - c3 80 mil - c4 160 mil - c5 320 mil - c6 640 mil
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#16 - 2015-06-26 13:09:07 UTC
Basicly no to turrets, the nueting for local tank hurts alot, you can flick the dps some what by drawing aggression away from the one ship with certian mods , but in the end youll need faction damage mods and tank mods to stay alive.

You might get away with ancillary shield boosters, but in general I found tracking of 425's to not be effective, 350mm worked better with one ship needing to paint.

there's also travel time, cause some of the buggers like to hang out at 60 km or more and youll have to burn or re position your self to hit them properly.

The best setup I found that worked for me was rr domi's I could do a c3 site in under 7 mins if I clicked furiously.

Good trigger management was essential too also good sentry skills,

oddly its slow but a passive drake is able to pretty much do them solo,

scorpions / rattle snakes work well too. the sig size and mobility of the frigs and crusiers is annoying for large turrets to hit with out paints and webs.
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-06-26 22:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Segraina Skyblazer
Zand Vor wrote:
Segraina Skyblazer wrote:
Jezza McWaffle wrote:
Any T1 BS can do them, honestly remote capping Nightmares would be one way or Rattlers, decent tracking, tank and high dps. If you can kill them quick enough you dont need tank.


It seems that everything Faction and above is a gank magnet and I'm also very cheap.


It doesn't matter what you are in, you will be a gank target with just your ship on dscan. Just a fact of Eve-life :)

I prefer cruisers for what you are trying to do, such as a decent fitted Ishtar, Gila, or a Cerb (maybe a Vagabond? I'm not a gun bunny) is going to cost you about the same as your two BSes, will be able to do the sites, and you can place your 2nd toon as a cloaky scout on a WH. Cruisers can get the hell out of dodge way faster than two BSes, so as long as u are mashing dscan and being careful you might avoid the gank before it happens.


In this case what about 2 Eagles since I'm much closer into training them then the others?

I fear that the Ishtar will be useless by the time I'm able to fly it, so I wish to avoid this ship at all cost.

If I do this "as long as u are mashing dscan and being careful you might avoid the gank before it happens". Would it be wise and relatively safe to do C4's in say a Rattlesnake or Marauder? Of all the ships, I really would prefer to do C4's in a Paladin but I can't afford to lose a 1.5 bill isk ship within days.
Hipqo
Tyde8
#18 - 2015-06-27 00:54:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Hipqo
Ive used remote cap/rep Navy Vexors, in c1/c2/c3, with good results.
They are butt cheap, two of them can take a serious beating, takes alot to neut out, has great drone bonusses and can spit out decent DPS.

I know you said you didnt train into drones, but if you wanna solo lower class wormholes, drone boats really is the "easy way" imho.
Think of this as a cheap alternative to the Domi.


[Vexor Navy Issue, remote rep]

Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Rolled Tungsten Compact Plates
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Medium Capacitor Battery II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Medium 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Medium 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Curator II x5

EHP: 53k (40k in armor)
Armor Resist: 75 / 67 / 67 / 66
DPS: 566 (curators) 351 (hammerheads) 219 (hobgoblins)
Price: ~140m

This x2 can survive c3 and deal enough DPS to take them out, for less then 300m.

A life is best lived, to not step into your grave in a well preserved body. Instead, to slide in side ways, all battered and bruised, screamming, "Holy SH**! What a ride!"
Segraina Skyblazer
Doomheim
#19 - 2015-06-27 02:30:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Segraina Skyblazer
Hipqo wrote:
Ive used remote cap/rep Navy Vexors, in c1/c2/c3, with good results.
They are butt cheap, two of them can take a serious beating, takes alot to neut out, has great drone bonusses and can spit out decent DPS.

I know you said you didnt train into drones, but if you wanna solo lower class wormholes, drone boats really is the "easy way" imho.
Think of this as a cheap alternative to the Domi.


[Vexor Navy Issue, remote rep]

Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

Medium Capacitor Battery II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Medium 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Medium 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter
Medium 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter

Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump II

Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Curator II x5

EHP: 47k
Armor Resist: 75 / 67 / 67 / 66
DPS: 566 (curators) 351 (hammerheads) 219 (hobgoblins)
Price: ~138m

This x2 can survive c3 and deal enough DPS to take them out, for less then 300m.


Sigh, I guess there is no way around the drone boats if doing WHs as the turret based ships just can't compete. My shield, armor and cap RR and tanking skills are pretty much maxed, but I think I only have around 3 mill SP in drone skills, so I guess I'll start there. Is a painter needed? How do you draw agro away from your drones? Will Heavies work for the navy vexor?
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#20 - 2015-06-27 03:20:31 UTC
faction heavies and sentry's have more ehp,
they are pricier however.

But can be used till you get to tech 2, should you stick it out with drones.
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