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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Sojourn: Void

Author
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#121 - 2015-06-09 18:10:51 UTC
Jennifer Starfall wrote:
Don't sell yourself short.

I don't think she was, suuolo.
Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#122 - 2015-06-09 20:57:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Aria Jenneth wrote:

Presumably it matters to them. And we're not really in a position to claim that individual lives are meaningless. After all, we're individuals, too.

Are you saying we've killed so many people that our hands can't get any dirtier?

Unlike those who condemned my coming here, I do not see this work as damaging. Nor, apparently unlike yourself, do I see compassion as a weakness.

I am honing my soul, Veikitamo Gesakaarin.

The state of yours is your own affair.


I would say I've killed so many people at this point that I would feel it particularly disingenuous to say I am not a murderer and a killer. Although my honest thoughts probably does come with a lack of tact, and my intention was not to pass judgement upon yourself as much as provide personal clarification.

And no, I do not feel compassion is a weakness, but neither do I feel others worthy of mine by default simply by virtue that they exist.

As for the state of my soul I suppose much like my better nature it is non-existent at this point.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#123 - 2015-06-09 22:25:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicoletta Mithra
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Mass baseliner death is a byproduct. It's like fertilizer runoff fouling a bay: something maybe undesirable and maybe avoidable, but of minimal concern when your primary worry is growing crops.

That's only showing that not the fertilizer runoff is the real problem, but placing 'growing crops' as your primary concern.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#124 - 2015-06-10 00:51:49 UTC
Veikitamo Gesakaarin wrote:
I would say I've killed so many people at this point that I would feel it particularly disingenuous to say I am not a murderer and a killer. Although my honest thoughts probably does come with a lack of tact, and my intention was not to pass judgement upon yourself as much as provide personal clarification.

And no, I do not feel compassion is a weakness, but neither do I feel others worthy of mine by default simply by virtue that they exist.

As for the state of my soul I suppose much like my better nature it is non-existent at this point.

Hm.

... you sound a little like my former self. The tone, as much as the content, though there is some of that in common. The willingness to think of yourself as something ...

... other.

Something dark.

I don't know if it's a state of mind I can imagine having, though obviously I once could. It seems ... like a little bit of a sad way to live.

I don't mean that as a judgment on you, either, even if it sounds a little like one. It's just that I keep coming upon people, some old friends, some new, who are borne down under the world's weight: impossible duties, horrible responsibilities, crushing anger, frustration, guilt.

Deep wells, overflowing with bitterness.

You seem to have embraced your role as a weapon of mass destruction, training for an apocalyptic war no one is likely to win. Strange as it might sound, that makes you one of the more stable examples I've seen lately: you're pursuing something that could actually happen, and your sense of purpose is still intact.

I'm not even sure it's all the same phenomenon I've been seeing ... but it seems like it's possible for people to sacrifice a lot of themselves, pursuing what they believe.

Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Mass baseliner death is a byproduct. It's like fertilizer runoff fouling a bay: something maybe undesirable and maybe avoidable, but of minimal concern when your primary worry is growing crops.

That's only showing that not the fertilizer runoff is the real problem, but placing 'growing crops' as your primary concern.

Someone has to do dirty work, Directrix. The world's not so courteous as to let it go undone, and I'm not really the sort of person to ask that others do what I won't.

Some see the faction wars as pointless, stupid things. To my eye they're pressure valves, giving the empires an outlet for their tensions without risking a war that would actually put Ms. Gesakaarin's skills to the use she's preparing them for.

I don't mean to ennoble what I'm doing too far, though. Aldrith got this much right: I'm a mercenary; my fee is insight. In exchange for that, I'm willing to do the tasks the world wants done by a capsuleer.

This is such a task.

To do this particular task properly....

It's hard to bring in a good harvest without focusing on agriculture.
Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#125 - 2015-06-10 01:06:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicoletta Mithra
Agriculture is something we do for the sake of something else. The harvest is for the sake of something else as well. The primary concern should always be with that, for the sake of which everything else is - not with that, which is for the sake of something else.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#126 - 2015-06-10 01:37:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
Agriculture is something we do for the sake of something else. The harvest is for the sake of something else as well. The primary concern should always be with that, for the sake of which everything else is - not with that, which is for the sake of something else.

Respectfully, Directrix, that seems like a classically academic declaration-- theoretically correct, but pretty far removed from practicalities.

Certainly, some understanding of the context in which an expert in any field works is helpful, and the universe is full of topics worth exploring, but ...

... do you really mean to say that a plumber's primary focus should be on the greater good of humankind, and not on plumbing?
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#127 - 2015-06-10 01:54:34 UTC
*sad smile* You're just never going to come to terms with yourself, are you?

Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR!

"DRINK STARSI!" ©®™Ownership Group Chairman

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#128 - 2015-06-10 04:42:02 UTC
Gorion Wassenar wrote:
*sad smile* You're just never going to come to terms with yourself, are you?

Do I seem so uncomfortable in my own skin, Mr. Wassenar?
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#129 - 2015-06-10 06:53:25 UTC
You seem to be asking questions like this often.

Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR!

"DRINK STARSI!" ©®™Ownership Group Chairman

Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Doomheim
#130 - 2015-06-10 08:39:09 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

... you sound a little like my former self. The tone, as much as the content, though there is some of that in common. The willingness to think of yourself as something ...

... other.

Something dark.

I don't know if it's a state of mind I can imagine having, though obviously I once could. It seems ... like a little bit of a sad way to live.

I don't mean that as a judgment on you, either, even if it sounds a little like one. It's just that I keep coming upon people, some old friends, some new, who are borne down under the world's weight: impossible duties, horrible responsibilities, crushing anger, frustration, guilt.

Deep wells, overflowing with bitterness.

You seem to have embraced your role as a weapon of mass destruction, training for an apocalyptic war no one is likely to win. Strange as it might sound, that makes you one of the more stable examples I've seen lately: you're pursuing something that could actually happen, and your sense of purpose is still intact.

I'm not even sure it's all the same phenomenon I've been seeing ... but it seems like it's possible for people to sacrifice a lot of themselves, pursuing what they believe.


I suppose everyone reacts to existential realizations and the nihilism of being a capsuleer in different ways. Some I suppose become embittered, or maybe they find God, a political ideology or even a technocratic messiah so as to find fulfillment through dogma and doctrinal thought. I really don't have much time for any of that.

I just live by a simple creed: Embrace death; savour life.

I know who I am. What I am. It's always one thing to realize the shadow beneath the persona one constructs for oneself, Ms. Jenneth, but it is another to step into that dark and leave the old delusions behind. I certainly do not feel any extra weight upon these shoulders -- metaphysical or otherwise.

That's probably the best I can elaborate without boring myself. Take from it what you will, or nothing at all.

Oh, and to be uncaring does not mean to be unfeeling.

Kurilaivonen|Concern

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#131 - 2015-06-10 09:19:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicoletta Mithra
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Nicoletta Mithra wrote:
Agriculture is something we do for the sake of something else. The harvest is for the sake of something else as well. The primary concern should always be with that, for the sake of which everything else is - not with that, which is for the sake of something else.

Respectfully, Directrix, that seems like a classically academic declaration-- theoretically correct, but pretty far removed from practicalities.

Certainly, some understanding of the context in which an expert in any field works is helpful, and the universe is full of topics worth exploring, but ...

... do you really mean to say that a plumber's primary focus should be on the greater good of humankind, and not on plumbing?

A plumber, who does not know when to plumb, why to plumb and what for to plumb is not really a plumber. Of course, when plumbing his focus should be on the plumbing: But that's because his primary concern should be with what he is - ultimately - plumbing for. And that's what his focus should be - ultimately - directed at, through the well-ordering of his concerns. Because if his concerns are well ordered and the highest end is at the top of his list of concerns, then every other concern is directed at this highest end, either directly or intermediately and so the focus through the ordering of concerns.

And this is true for any human:

Putting your concerns in the right order is of utmost importance for practicalities, because we engage in practicalities guided by them. So if our concerns are not well ordered we will engage in the wrong things or at the wrong time or in the wrong way or in the wrong regard. Practicalities are done for the sake of something in general. And as this is so, they originate with those ends for which they are done. I can't see how practicalities can be far removed from their origin. Thus I can't see how ordering your concerns well is 'pretty far removed from practicalities': To say something like that seems to be the sign of confusion.

So the primary concern and by extension his focus as directed by the well-ordered hierarchy of concerns should be with something like 'the greater good of humankind': To say otherwise means to reduce a plumber to something that does plumbing and amounts to willfully ignoring that a plumber is a human: And that it is necessary for a plumber to be a human, while it is accidental for a human to be a plumber.

All that said: I think it is pretty far removed from reality to claim that plumbers should be primarily concerned with plumbing: While it is true that being concerned with plumbing is part of the definition of the plumber, no particular plumber I ever met plumbed for the sake of plumbing and even less lived for the sake of plumbing. I think if anything here is 'academic', then it's the idea that a plumber should focus his life as human being on plumbing, because he's a plumber.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#132 - 2015-06-10 16:05:52 UTC
Gorion Wassenar wrote:
You seem to be asking questions like this often.

I suppose. Although....

I'm not sure that's so much me being uncomfortable with myself as people thinking I ought to be.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#133 - 2015-06-25 04:36:10 UTC
Entry Seven: Purpose

It seems pretty clear to me, and has for a while, that this sort of work is what capsuleers are for.

I don't mean that there's a divine edict that we go out and kill a lot of people. I mean that the groups or individuals who planned and negotiated our place in society seem to have had this sort of thing in mind.

The capsule is a weapon, first and foremost: a high-performance starship interface that can be put to many uses, but which finds its greatest utility, and greatest test, in combat against enemies that would wither conventional fleets, be they Sleeper drones, Incursion vessels, Drifters ... or our fellow capsuleers.

Most of our resources (most other applications of the capsule, really) are ultimately aimed at preparing for that sort of confrontation. Resource harvesters provide the parts industrialists use to build the weapons that arm combat pilots.

There are exceptions, but the basic pattern isn't ... really very ambiguous.

What's really puzzling, though, is that we're not a military force for any single empire, or, maybe, even all of them together. We're independent operators, privateers, and the amount of liberty we're legally granted is ... well, frankly, silly. We're essentially each, individually, granted personal independence, like a small but internationally-recognized country.

We're the rulers of private empires, with towns or cities that fly around and occasionally explode.

An empire doesn't seem like a life form that intentionally reproduces by ... well, any means, usually, so this is weird.

It's tempting to think that the empires were somehow duped into creating our class, but that seems like a hard sell, even for our likeliest benefactors, the Jove. The effects were too predictable, maybe even flatly inevitable, so ... perhaps the empires wanted this?

It ... seems odd, but I do think it's more likely than the alternative.

More later.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#134 - 2015-06-25 09:52:29 UTC
I do not think... that they were duped that much...

Caspuleers fight against each other, or do the empires wishes as weapons to deal with external threats... Destructions creates a need for industry, industry gets financed by money funneled in our little economic bubble for bounties, rewards, etc. Taxes are paid for each industrial job, taxes getting back in through the SCC.

Capsuleers are cogs in a financial and military machine, and have been since the beginning. The machine in question is improved and polished every day by new additions to the possibilities capsuleers are offered.

They call it, 'content'.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#135 - 2015-06-25 13:03:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Lyn Farel wrote:
I do not think... that they were duped that much...

Caspuleers fight against each other, or do the empires wishes as weapons to deal with external threats... Destructions creates a need for industry, industry gets financed by money funneled in our little economic bubble for bounties, rewards, etc. Taxes are paid for each industrial job, taxes getting back in through the SCC.

Capsuleers are cogs in a financial and military machine, and have been since the beginning. The machine in question is improved and polished every day by new additions to the possibilities capsuleers are offered.

They call it, 'content'.

Well ... call it what they may, suuolo, it does seem that there's a will to continue supporting us.

The question is what the payoff is that makes us worth supporting.

It doesn't seem likely to be just money. People talk a lot about greed, but it's not clear to me that a governing entity (that isn't so corrupt as to be unstable) can, itself, be greedy.

Money's a resource. It can be hoarded, shepherded, or expended, but it won't, by itself, stop an invasion. It's one form of what governments really seem to run on, which is power.

One way or another, we must enhance the empires' power more than we erode it.

Gifts to capsuleers don't seem to work very well at creating lasting influence; we're not the sort of culture that feels deep obligation to a benefactor (especially if the value of a gift is at all debatable). Promised rewards, though, work very well at painting targets: the higher the reward for killing something, the more likely we are to make a priority of it.

In this sense, we seem to work like a strange utility: the empires apply ISK, and we dispense destruction. Hot and cold running murder.
Jev North
Doomheim
#136 - 2015-06-25 14:57:21 UTC
I think of us as the cluster's slightly overactive immune system, really, with ISK the pyrogen to keep our fever going.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#137 - 2015-06-25 17:57:42 UTC
Jev North wrote:
I think of us as the cluster's slightly overactive immune system, really, with ISK the pyrogen to keep our fever going.

Wouldn't that make those of us hunting each other a really literal auto-immune disorder? The immune system attacking itself?

... that may be taking the analogy too far, though ...
Aldrith Shutaq
Atash e Sarum Vanguard
#138 - 2015-06-25 18:06:58 UTC
No, the analogy is quite apt, except the auto-immune disorder runs much deeper than that as it attacks all cells in the body of humanity. Of course, some packs of cells do behave and seek out the most dire threats above all else, but the rest are a disorganized mass mindlessly attacking the biggest, flashiest targets, including each other and a few vital organs.

Aldrith Ter'neth Shutaq Newelle

Fleet Captain of the Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris

Divine Commodore of the 24th Imperial Crusade

Lord Consort of Lady Mitara Newelle, Champion of House Sarum and Holder of Damnidios Para'nashu

Nicoletta Mithra
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#139 - 2015-06-25 18:32:20 UTC
With the exception, of course, that capsuleers as humans have a choice in this. Most just decide not to exercise it. Capsuleers are not something like 'weapons by nature'. It's them who let themselves readily be utilized as such.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#140 - 2015-06-25 23:17:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:
No, the analogy is quite apt, except the auto-immune disorder runs much deeper than that as it attacks all cells in the body of humanity. Of course, some packs of cells do behave and seek out the most dire threats above all else, but the rest are a disorganized mass mindlessly attacking the biggest, flashiest targets, including each other and a few vital organs.


Only ... wouldn't that make us more like a virus?

If so, there's no reason to maintain or support an entity like that. If we're so destructive, all but the most well-behaved should be destroyed. And it's not like we're a free-roaming, uncontrolled viral infestation.

There are built-in limits on our behavior: objects we can't destroy, regardless of our firepower; objects (such as planetary cities) we can't even lock without assistance from the ground. We don't glass planets, not because we don't have the inclination (some of us probably do), but because we literally can't. Our interfaces never give us the option to try.

The true laws of our kind work on us like laws of nature: we literally can't break them. The rest are sort of polite suggestions, sometimes backed by a threat of ship loss.

We're like this because we're allowed, even encouraged, to be like this, and despite Directrix Mithra's steadfast belief in free will, this outcome was so predictable that it must be intentional.

So ...


Entry Eight: Form

... in effect, what the empires have intentionally created in us is a collection of extremely heavily-armed barbarian tribes. We're chaotic and unruly, but therefore also too fractious to pose much of a threat to the great powers. We're individually powerful, skilled, more or less self-maintaining, and can be easily encouraged to do various sorts of dirty work for a reward.

Importantly, we don't represent the unbalanced gathering of power in any one empire's hands. Instead, we're sort of a resource pool shared among all of them. This avoids one potential nightmare scenario: a capsuleer arms race, in which each Empire churns out military Empyreans as fast as it's able in order to have the highest possible strength in numbers. With the relative ease of producing pods, but the difficulty of producing capsuleers, that's not a race any empire could be sure of winning, but which could be hugely destructive if anyone gained a significant advantage for any length of time for any reason at all.

If this is indeed a scenario the empires were aiming to avoid, then, bizarrely, our own chaotic character is a stabilizing factor. If room is made for us, we will expand to fill it. If resources are intelligently expended to encourage behavior X, behavior X will predictably occur. The (usually subtle) limits on our behavior allow us to be handled fairly safely, as long as, for example, things the empires really don't want blown up are designated as such.

We can be used to get work done, but we'll never side dependably enough with any one faction for any empire to plan a full-scale war against the others based on our cooperation.

We're trained so that we can be made use of, and tolerated for the same reason. We're independent so we won't create destabilizing concentrations of power. We're limited and divided-- perhaps even pitted against each other-- so that we won't bring about nightmare scenarios ourselves.

We're a resource to be used. And use us they do.