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Warfare & Tactics

 
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People complaining about boosters

First post
Author
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc
Templis CALSF
#41 - 2015-06-25 10:00:20 UTC
afkalt wrote:
They are clearly not that bothered about them. If they were they could be fixed in a nanosecond.

Sure, forcing the effects on grid may present technical difficulties, however if they simply added a beacon which anyone can warp to once boosts effects are up ... well ... game changer right there.

Think cyno but without the movement lockout.

So you CAN OGB...but is it wise, when you can no longer hide in the shadows?

But they're not going down this route so it is evidently not a huge deal for CCP.


Ok. So I park my booster on station/gate/edge of pos shield. Sure you can warp to my booster so what? Shoot it and I can dock/jump/burn back to shields.

Now you're gonna say "B-but weapons timer!" now that's just moving the goalpost.Roll

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2015-06-25 10:06:43 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Who cares, the thing is off field/offline, which is what you want.

The issue isn't that they're off grid so much as disproportionately hard to find to dislodge.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#43 - 2015-06-25 15:26:25 UTC
afkalt wrote:
They are clearly not that bothered about them. If they were they could be fixed in a nanosecond.

Sure, forcing the effects on grid may present technical difficulties, however if they simply added a beacon which anyone can warp to once boosts effects are up ... well ... game changer right there.

Think cyno but without the movement lockout.

So you CAN OGB...but is it wise, when you can no longer hide in the shadows?

But they're not going down this route so it is evidently not a huge deal for CCP.


And your just gave people a free warpin on the booster that run with its fleet + a **** mess of beacons when goons decide to take their 2-3 full fleets out with BCs all fitted with a link :P
Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
Pen Is Out
#44 - 2015-06-25 17:37:19 UTC
Estella Osoka wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Nicholas Goldfinder wrote:
...or probe / gate camp a booster with cruiser fleet with logic... not many are required

plus, if u leave proper tackle on both sides, jumping would not prevent death

given the amount of isks that ppl put in creating their links toons (training queues=plex=isk -> ship is not the only risks there) their strength seems to me not op

i don't have boosters

i avoid or kill boosters

or use other's boosters

i just play the game

shall we nerf implants? shall we nerf what?

many seem to want an easier game... then i think they are bad: instead of accepting the challenge or letting others have their game, they want easy times... seems not like eve to me


Implants are a risk. A shiny pod is often multiple times more expensive than links ship and pods face risk from many directions including bubbles (in null/WH), instalockers, and Santo.

Meanwhile OGB is pay to win "make my ship awesome" button that has minimum claim on pilot's attention span, unlike probing which requires actual input and is extremely difficult to do while also multiboxing a frigate in pitched battle. That anyone would suggest there is a balancing equivalent between a mostly afk booster and a prober that must be actively and skillfully managed to find it is pretty laughable.

I'm not even calling for boosters to be removed. For small raiding parties going into enemy territory where the enemy blob has a brick tanked CS hugging station, the T3 links need to be an option.

But putting links on killmails would be a good start. It would disincentivize their use as a hidden trump card for lowsec killboard greening. Put them on mails and add at least a weapons timer to make them gankable in cases where the user isn't totally AFK.

Because the current meta where I have to sacrifice a ship to find out if someone has boosts and then I just blueball them forever after, is not good for anyone.

This game is as its best when fights are won and lost on the basis of player choice in combat, fitting, and fleet maneuvers. Not when victory is determined by who spent more money on alts. Seriously, I came here to shoot spaceships, not play N+1 with subscriptions.


Then don't fight in a system when you see a booster on d-scan. You don't like boosters, then don't fight people who use them. Once they get blue-balled enough, they'll either put their links up, or go do something else.


I've said multiple times that's basically my approach. But still in many cases the only way to identify a links user is losing a ship to find out that they have 15k scram and abnormal speed in a T1 frigate.

I have learned where most of the link users hang out in my area of lowsec and I generally don't take fights in those systems.

Roaming T3 + faction frig combo is not that common, fortunately.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2015-06-25 17:40:26 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
afkalt wrote:
They are clearly not that bothered about them. If they were they could be fixed in a nanosecond.

Sure, forcing the effects on grid may present technical difficulties, however if they simply added a beacon which anyone can warp to once boosts effects are up ... well ... game changer right there.

Think cyno but without the movement lockout.

So you CAN OGB...but is it wise, when you can no longer hide in the shadows?

But they're not going down this route so it is evidently not a huge deal for CCP.


And your just gave people a free warpin on the booster that run with its fleet + a **** mess of beacons when goons decide to take their 2-3 full fleets out with BCs all fitted with a link :P


No-one would ever use that as a trap Blink
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#46 - 2015-06-25 18:53:11 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
afkalt wrote:
They are clearly not that bothered about them. If they were they could be fixed in a nanosecond.

Sure, forcing the effects on grid may present technical difficulties, however if they simply added a beacon which anyone can warp to once boosts effects are up ... well ... game changer right there.

Think cyno but without the movement lockout.

So you CAN OGB...but is it wise, when you can no longer hide in the shadows?

But they're not going down this route so it is evidently not a huge deal for CCP.


And your just gave people a free warpin on the booster that run with its fleet + a **** mess of beacons when goons decide to take their 2-3 full fleets out with BCs all fitted with a link :P


No-one would ever use that as a trap Blink


You mean its a trap when you give your enemy a free warpin point for your fleet?
How do you decide where to warp when you have 1k diffrent beacons?

Beacon = booster stay away from fleet (to easy to get a perfect warp on it), and at best you dedicate some poor soul to be the OGB. Fixing nothing and breaking boosting for fleets
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#47 - 2015-06-25 19:23:40 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Oh, I didn't realise there was no on grid probing any more.

Wow, I had no idea that getting warp in to an enemy fleet today was 'hard'

1k boosters in a system? Don't be ridiculous.

"Oh noes they can find me!!!!"...so don't light the boosts until you're ready.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#48 - 2015-06-25 21:44:34 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Oh, I didn't realise there was no on grid probing any more.

Wow, I had no idea that getting warp in to an enemy fleet today was 'hard'

1k boosters in a system? Don't be ridiculous.

"Oh noes they can find me!!!!"...so don't light the boosts until you're ready.


Its not that its hard, but someone have to do it. Also its getting changed so you need a fleet member in the location to warp there (no fleet warp to scan results)

1k boosters in systems IS something that would happen. You act like goons would not at the very least try BC fleets where all have a single booster module active, testing the server limits is more than enough reason to do it.

Making every active booster a beacon so everyone can warp to it = no OGB (or suicide ogb) and if they stay with the fleet it would be easier to get a warp in than to bounce anywhere in system
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#49 - 2015-06-25 22:05:14 UTC
Worrying about the potential outcome of a stupid idea is hardly productive.

Give boosters a weapon and suspect timer forcing them to boost from a safe and be vulnerable from a similarly dedicated probing ship (like a t3d). And put them on killmails.

That is pretty much all anyone needs to identify and kill, or at least bring boosters into the general gameplay.

There will still be those that are too lazy to probe things out as they think they game is broken unless a steady flow of inferior ships fly at them one by one throughout the time they are undocked. For everyone else, that would most likely be a welcome and fair change in the boosting meta.
Ares Desideratus
UNSAFE SPACE
#50 - 2015-06-25 22:30:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Ares Desideratus
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Worrying about the potential outcome of a stupid idea is hardly productive.

Give boosters a weapon and suspect timer forcing them to boost from a safe and be vulnerable from a similarly dedicated probing ship (like a t3d). And put them on killmails.

That is pretty much all anyone needs to identify and kill, or at least bring boosters into the general gameplay.

There will still be those that are too lazy to probe things out as they think they game is broken unless a steady flow of inferior ships fly at them one by one throughout the time they are undocked. For everyone else, that would most likely be a welcome and fair change in the boosting meta.

I don't think putting boosters on killmails would make any sense. On the other hand I don't think killmails make any sense in their current state, either. Still, I am against the idea of putting boosters on killmails.

I would be happy with the weapon and/or suspect timer however. I think that would probably be the optimal solution.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2015-06-26 08:07:48 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
afkalt wrote:
Oh, I didn't realise there was no on grid probing any more.

Wow, I had no idea that getting warp in to an enemy fleet today was 'hard'

1k boosters in a system? Don't be ridiculous.

"Oh noes they can find me!!!!"...so don't light the boosts until you're ready.


Its not that its hard, but someone have to do it. Also its getting changed so you need a fleet member in the location to warp there (no fleet warp to scan results)

1k boosters in systems IS something that would happen. You act like goons would not at the very least try BC fleets where all have a single booster module active, testing the server limits is more than enough reason to do it.

Making every active booster a beacon so everyone can warp to it = no OGB (or suicide ogb) and if they stay with the fleet it would be easier to get a warp in than to bounce anywhere in system


And a BC fleet would be decimated in short order (Maybe the rebalance planned for these would change that). It wouldn't be effective, or worth it. For a fleet engagement I doubt it would change much.

Being able to warp to a booster offers interesting possibilities - sit it outside the main fleet but in logi range inside a HIC bubble, for instance. Creative people could have a lot of fun with it.


The whole idea is to kill OGB, without waiting for a recode, that's the point. A nicer alternative is making them easier to probe, but that just craps up a bunch of other things with the limitations. I find it somewhat amusing that people take the stance of "lolprobe it down"...likely fully aware of how hard they are to get a hold of when fit correctly.

Don't forget the same fleet warp changes will make OGB T3s literally uncatchable. Catching a ship going over 1.2km/s with a sensor strength of 149 vs 157 sig (before implants)....good luck when you can't punt fast tackle any more.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#52 - 2015-06-26 08:38:59 UTC
You mean the idea is to kill OGB without putting any effort in yurself. Spokem like one of these new generaton of mileniel soloers whos sole skill is constatntly whining about links, blobs, implants, OP ships, odd fits and pretty much anything else..

Beacons have to be the single worst idea for OGB out there so dedicating more than one post apologising for such a bad idea is a waste of time.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2015-06-26 08:41:50 UTC
So tell me how you're going to catch one, EVER once the fleet changes go.

Unless it's shitfit.

I look forward to your brilliance.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#54 - 2015-06-26 08:48:03 UTC
afkalt wrote:
So tell me how you're going to catch one, EVER once the fleet changes go.

Unless it's shitfit.

I look forward to your brilliance.


It doesnt matter, its useless to discuss such horrible ideas.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2015-06-26 08:48:51 UTC
So you concede they're literally going to be uncatchable. Back to the 100% uncatchable links days.

Such skill. Much wow.
Lucy Callagan
This Game Is Terrible
Warlords of the Deep
#56 - 2015-06-26 08:49:30 UTC
Quote:
Don't forget the same fleet warp changes will make OGB T3s literally uncatchable. Catching a ship going over 1.2km/s with a sensor strength of 149 vs 157 sig (before implants)....good luck when you can't punt fast tackle any more.
QUOTE


If it's going 1.2k/s it's not gonna have a 157m sig and its gonna cap himself out quickly.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#57 - 2015-06-26 08:56:49 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Lucy Callagan wrote:
Quote:
Don't forget the same fleet warp changes will make OGB T3s literally uncatchable. Catching a ship going over 1.2km/s with a sensor strength of 149 vs 157 sig (before implants)....good luck when you can't punt fast tackle any more.
QUOTE


If it's going 1.2k/s it's not gonna have a 157m sig and its gonna cap himself out quickly.



Nope, try again. 100mn AB both fits and it is cap stable at 56% with EVERYTHING running. 1.2km/s is with it's own links active (which they will be, naturally - why would they not be, it IS the booster), sheet is 1km/s without the links up.

That's going to cover a hell of ground from the time you get a probe hit to the time the little covops lands. It can't keep up cloaked to give a warp in and you can't punt a keres/inty/garmur any more and those hulls will not have the strength to land their own probe hit.

Cloak recalibration delay means the covops won't get point either, even then, it would be luck to land one with a heated, linked domination point given the time to the moving target.

Edit: Hell, for extra LOLvalue, you could run snakes instead of halos/sensor implants. I forgot to add his own links for the sig radius, it's actually 116 with them up.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#58 - 2015-06-26 09:00:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
afkalt wrote:
So you concede they're literally going to be uncatchable. Back to the 100% uncatchable links days.

Such skill. Much wow.


For one, im saying the idea is horrible. So you cant argue with me as though im an advocate for it lol.

For another, just a long point cov ops to get an initial warp, Wait for booster to reach 150km then hit another probe cycle, unloak in warp, point and call dps.

Not to mention the fact a solo booster (4 links), since various changes, is never going to have that ratio of sig to sensor strength. So not only are you arguing with me about an idea that we both seem to disagree with, you are doing so with a lack of aptitude for playing eve, eve mechaics in general and also throwing out some crappy meme to further cement why some people are best left out of the brainstorming threads on the forum.

For fleet boosters, i dont see a whole lot of pushback against them, its really just the trusoloers that constantly whine about the mechanic making their arbitrary choise to fly solo too hard.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2015-06-26 09:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Not to mention the fact a solo booster (4 links), since various changes, is never going to have that ratio of sig to sensor strength. So not only are you arguing with me about an idea that we both seem to disagree with, you are doing so with a lack of ap[titude for to playing eve, eve mechaics in general and also throwing out some crappy meme to further cement why some people are best left out of the brainstorming threads on the forum.


So this fit is impossible, is it?

[Tengu, Boostgu]
Co-Processor II
Co-Processor II
Gravimetric Backup Array II
Gravimetric Backup Array II

Command Processor I
Command Processor I
Command Processor I
100MN Y-S8 Compact Afterburner
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I

Skirmish Warfare Link - Evasive Maneuvers II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Interdiction Maneuvers II
Skirmish Warfare Link - Rapid Deployment II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
[empty high slot]

Medium Ancillary Current Router II
Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I
Medium Auxiliary Thrusters I

Tengu Defensive - Warfare Processor
Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Tengu Propulsion - Interdiction Nullifier
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix



Cloaky, nullified, speed, sig radius and cap stability as advertised.


Good luck catching it with a cloaking targeting delay. Are you really that silly? The thing will warp the minute you decloak.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#60 - 2015-06-26 09:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
afkalt wrote:
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Not to mention the fact a solo booster (4 links), since various changes, is never going to have that ratio of sig to sensor strength. So not only are you arguing with me about an idea that we both seem to disagree with, you are doing so with a lack of ap[titude for to playing eve, eve mechaics in general and also throwing out some crappy meme to further cement why some people are best left out of the brainstorming threads on the forum.


Good luck catching it with a cloaking targeting delay. Are you really that silly? The thing will warp the minute you decloak.


If thats the assumption then no booster is ever going to be caught regardless of any changes. Oddly, they do though so assuming that they will warp as something arrives on grid / decloaks as it lands is another bad assumption to support an argument that you seem to be having with yourself about a horrible idea.

As for the fit, probing mechanics set a bottleneck for the sensor strength:sig ratio much lower than the numbers you actually posted. I believe its 90%. So for this example the effective sensor strength will be ~143.

All boosters, regardless of how they are fit are currently probable with a bonused hull and perfect skills with no implants.