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Tags 4 Standings

Author
Anthar Thebess
#1 - 2015-06-23 12:36:48 UTC
Older discussion topic : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=426053

Base idea is to create way you can gain faction standings without the need of grinding.
People have many ways to overcome this, we have COSMOS agents ... but we can also find a good use for totally new way of gaining those standings.

Proposition is very simple.
Create new agents similar to those COSMOS ones , located in lowsec stations.
Those agents will give missions like any other agents , but instead of giving LP and isk payout each mission will nicely boost faction standing.

Those missions will be all about deliver specific quantity of enemy faction tags to the agents.
So in order to get specific % buff to your Gallente standing you will need to to deliver 200 Caldari #### tags to the agent.

Why this way?
Because this is quite simple , without any additional mechanic or items.
We already have faction tags that are used widely in LP store , that come from faction missions.
For FW mission runners this could be additional reason to run , not blitz missions.
People will haul them , lose on lowsec gate camps, trade them more often.

Benefit to every one.


McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#2 - 2015-06-23 12:59:20 UTC
What would stop someone from rolling alts and using this to farm rewards from the level 4 COSMOS and Epic Arcs? Those can be very lucrative. The tags would have to cost more than those rewards, which means it would cost an arm and a leg.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin

Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#3 - 2015-06-23 13:07:23 UTC
-1 Under the current system there are ways to "buy" your standing back up to the required point we do not want or need one that makes this process easier. There are supposed to be consequences for the actions you choose, all this idea does is remove one of those consequences by making it extremely easy to overcome it.

-1 to any form of "buying" your standings back up that is only located in low sec. If we are going to have such systems in the game they need to be available in all regions of space and available to all players except worm holes. Sorry W/H players but you loose on this one unless you want to have NPC stations in your WH.

-1 We do not need a band aide fix that only applies to a small portion of the players in the game. What we need is for CCP to do a ground up re-think on the entire standings mechanic and come up with something the serves the same purpose but is not so f***ed up.


Anthar Thebess
#4 - 2015-06-23 13:21:00 UTC
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:
What would stop someone from rolling alts and using this to farm rewards from the level 4 COSMOS and Epic Arcs? Those can be very lucrative. The tags would have to cost more than those rewards, which means it would cost an arm and a leg.

There will be no other reward than standing boost.
Like i stated missions will not offer any LP or isk in return.

What is also important This will not be COSMOS missions.

Donnachadh wrote:
-1 Under the current system there are ways to "buy" your standing back up to the required point we do not want or need one that makes this process easier. There are supposed to be consequences for the actions you choose, all this idea does is remove one of those consequences by making it extremely easy to overcome it.

-1 to any form of "buying" your standings back up that is only located in low sec. If we are going to have such systems in the game they need to be available in all regions of space and available to all players except worm holes. Sorry W/H players but you loose on this one unless you want to have NPC stations in your WH.

-1 We do not need a band aide fix that only applies to a small portion of the players in the game. What we need is for CCP to do a ground up re-think on the entire standings mechanic and come up with something the serves the same purpose but is not so f***ed up.


First read about this :
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Tags_for_Security

Here you trade specific tags for security status.
The whole point of putting this to lowsec is to make it available to every one , like in the tags for security .
If you care to read this topic i suggested there that it will be much easier to lose faction standings - but this can be implemented or not.


If getting back positive security status was ceded already to other people in exchange for isk , why the same cannot be applied to faction standings.

To gain security status you need to kill pirate rats.
To gain faction standings you need to kill pirate rats but on missions.
Zauler
Abyssal Enchanters Guild
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2015-06-24 07:06:53 UTC
+1
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#6 - 2015-06-24 07:15:59 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Benefit to every one.



except those of us who would rather get stabbed in the kidneys with a blunt knitting needle than run missions.

we need a better way to gain faction standing.
Anthar Thebess
#7 - 2015-06-24 07:24:43 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Benefit to every one.



except those of us who would rather get stabbed in the kidneys with a blunt knitting needle than run missions.

we need a better way to gain faction standing.


But that is the whole point of this idea.
You take a indy full of faction tags , and then take mission after a "mission" that will boost your standings.
No need to undock in the whole process , or wait for something.

I proposed to use mission system, as it is already in place.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#8 - 2015-06-24 07:35:59 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Benefit to every one.



except those of us who would rather get stabbed in the kidneys with a blunt knitting needle than run missions.

we need a better way to gain faction standing.


But that is the whole point of this idea.
You take a indy full of faction tags , and then take mission after a "mission" that will boost your standings.
No need to undock in the whole process , or wait for something.

I proposed to use mission system, as it is already in place.

derp, yes i see that, i can read i swear....need coffee
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#9 - 2015-06-24 10:00:07 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
we need a better way to gain faction standing.

Like shooting people in FW? Already in place.

In my opinion, it should not be easy to gain the trust of an entity with millions of citizens, workers and extremely vested interests in economies. Applying the system capsuleers uses (A: Hey, can we be blue? - B: Yes. Buddies! Yay!) is absolutely not a suitable way to gain the favors of the NPC empires. You either work for the trust or you do not care and ignore them. And if you made mistakes in your past, you better work extra hard to rectify them.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Vesan Terakol
Trollgrin Sadface
Dark Taboo
#10 - 2015-06-24 10:14:22 UTC
I approve of this idea, but instead of empire standing, it would better apply to standing to a particular corporation, as the initial grind to get to the good agents (L 3 and 4) Is most of the time more of an annoyance than an actual feeling of progress.

This would also be a good place to utilize some of the pirate faction tags, that have obscure uses and minimal market value. Every time i found one of those, i was like "u-u-u-u, shiny!" And then i figured that only 2-3 of them are actually worth anything. I still haven't found out what is the use of most of them.
Anthar Thebess
#11 - 2015-06-24 10:27:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Well currently people are using corporation boosts by just afking in the fleet.
You loose faction standings by shooting faction specific rats , or hauling illegal stuff.

You gain by shooting rats on missions , or by FW.

System is dead in current form.
More important system - the security status - been recently injected with the TAG system.
We can leave it in current form, or increase the possibilities that you can loose this standings , while allowing to buy back using faction tags.

This will put more life in this game, more stuff to haul, more people to hunt for.

Edit.
Pirate faction tags are used in similar missions , but COSMOS ones , and you cannot do them quite often.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#12 - 2015-06-24 11:16:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Well currently people are using corporation boosts by just afking in the fleet.
You loose faction standings by shooting faction specific rats , or hauling illegal stuff.

You gain by shooting rats on missions , or by FW.

System is dead in current form.

How is it dead? There are still people offering services to improve standings to NPC corps for you. You still have to fly around to get to missions and back, or to do storylines. You are still in space to run the missions and thus can be intercepted, ambushed and PVPed. With more variety in missions types hopefully being added and old onces renewed, refurbished and/or improved (like I have suggested for 2 missions in other threads, as an expample), more people can enjoy this.

What you suggest, on the other hand, is just Covert Bridge a BR to a tag buying station (it's nothing else but buying tags, let's face it) and remain in station to sell the tags. There's only a very limited potential to intercept your hauler and you do not need to be in space to get your standing boosts. If you ask me, this system is a lot worse than what we have. The only "upside" is the easier standing gain and mistake rectification for all the lazy muppets out there of the Angry Bird and Farmville gamer generation. Personally, that is not an upside for me, catering to these people is a massive disfavor to the game.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Anthar Thebess
#13 - 2015-06-24 11:26:08 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Well currently people are using corporation boosts by just afking in the fleet.
You loose faction standings by shooting faction specific rats , or hauling illegal stuff.

You gain by shooting rats on missions , or by FW.

System is dead in current form.

How is it dead? There are still people offering services to improve standings to NPC corps for you. You still have to fly around to get to missions and back, or to do storylines. You are still in space to run the missions and thus can be intercepted, ambushed and PVPed. With more variety in missions types hopefully being added and old onces renewed, refurbished and/or improved (like I have suggested for 2 missions in other threads, as an expample), more people can enjoy this.

What you suggest, on the other hand, is just Covert Bridge a BR to a tag buying station (it's nothing else but buying tags, let's face it) and remain in station to sell the tags. There's only a very limited potential to intercept your hauler and you do not need to be in space to get your standing boosts. If you ask me, this system is a lot worse than what we have. The only "upside" is the easier standing gain and mistake rectification for all the lazy muppets out there of the Angry Bird and Farmville gamer generation. Personally, that is not an upside for me, catering to these people is a massive disfavor to the game.


It is about getting tags first.
They come from faction missions - so mostly from FW missions, that people blitz currently.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#14 - 2015-06-24 11:59:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
They come from the market. Next to no one will first farm them themselves only to bring them to another seller as it would defeat the purpose of gaining status faster.
Just like with Tags for Sec, people will simply buy them from the market, bring them to a quiet Low sec buyer and be done with it. And where the Clone Soldiers haven't managed to bring significant numbers of people into Low sec, your Tags for Status will achieve it either.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Anthar Thebess
#15 - 2015-06-24 12:03:52 UTC
NPC are not selling them , someone need to get them first.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#16 - 2015-06-24 13:20:37 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:

Thanks for the link, however if you would actually read what was written iyou would clearly see that I am already fully aware that there are mechanics in game that allow you to trade tags for sec standing.
Donnachadh wrote:
-1 Under the current system there are ways to "buy" your standing back up to the required point we do not want or need one that makes this process easier.



Anthar Thebess wrote:
The whole point of putting this to lowsec is to make it available to every one , like in the tags for security .
If you care to read this topic i suggested there that it will be much easier to lose faction standings - but this can be implemented or not.

Again understanding what you read is key here. I stated these turn in locations need to be located in all areas of space except worm holes. I never said they should not be in low sec.
Donnachadh wrote:
-1 to any form of "buying" your standings back up that is only located in low sec.



Anthar Thebess wrote:
If getting back positive security status was ceded already to other people in exchange for isk , why the same cannot be applied to faction standings.

No one in the game should be able to trade tags for Faction standing, no one not ever. Under the current standings system in this game faction standings are to valuable to allow for anyone at any time to be able to buy them.

All this aside your idea still gets a -1 from me since it is a band-aide patch applied to an already broken system. We need CCP to replace that system not patch it to the benfit of a small portion of the players in the game.

It gets another -1 from me as it allows all players an easy way to work around the consequences to be paid for their chosen game play style. YOU chose to go out and shoot people thus lowering your standings, the consequences for those actions are low standings, the potential problems associated with those low standings and the GRIND to bring them back up.
Anthar Thebess
#17 - 2015-06-24 13:32:14 UTC
Unless you want to put this into the "logic"

"We don't like you!
Oh killed, or paid someone to kill 300 ships of our rival faction ... ok we don't like you , but a bit less"

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#18 - 2015-06-24 15:02:07 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
NPC are not selling them , someone need to get them first.

NPC do not need to, people do. But it's the same people that already sell them. No increase in tags generation. On the other hand, more people will buy the tags instead of running missions to gain standings. So less people in space to shoot because they then only sit in stations and sell tags.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Anthar Thebess
#19 - 2015-06-25 07:15:49 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
NPC are not selling them , someone need to get them first.

NPC do not need to, people do. But it's the same people that already sell them. No increase in tags generation. On the other hand, more people will buy the tags instead of running missions to gain standings. So less people in space to shoot because they then only sit in stations and sell tags.

Currently people in FW blitz missions, so they usually don't kill rats for tags.
Price is to low - if we introduce this tags 4 standings , this could change.
Especially if we use tons of low value tags.
For example to get yourself from 0.0 to 7.0 you need to give to faction around 50.000 lowest tags ( currently valued around 8.000 isk per unit)

Price for them will raise a bit , for most people the goal will not be 7.0 , but something lower.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#20 - 2015-06-25 08:47:42 UTC
This should only be to fix negative standing, not to gain positive standing.
And the current 'buyback' methods are limited one time only deals, which sucks if you want to explore various options over your lifetime, so they are not appropriate methods.

This would be a much better use for tags than the LP store, which ends up massively overpricing a whole lot of items as well as so much micromanaging, meaning a whole lot of LP items never get used (Ok, maybe by crazy people but they see no regular use), and still keeps tags as having value to repair negative standing.
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