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[Duality] Sovereignty Playtest Competition

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Author
vampire Huunuras
Vertex Armada
The Initiative.
#241 - 2015-06-23 00:08:12 UTC  |  Edited by: vampire Huunuras
CCP Fozzie ... PL are being meanies :(. They didn't like us trying to take their sov. I mean we are only trying to freeport it :).

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CleverGirls Director | FC | Recruiter

Jayne Fillon
#242 - 2015-06-23 02:15:14 UTC
When will the RF timers be set back to normal, instead of the 24 hours RF cycle that is currently in place?

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

Warmeister
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#243 - 2015-06-23 02:36:50 UTC
when we finish capturing all the sov Twisted
JackWatts
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#244 - 2015-06-23 09:28:38 UTC
I've been trying to go through this thread and see what bugs have been reported and what suggestions have been offered about the actual SOV system but all I am getting is a headache.

I don't know about other people but I don't really have the patience to go through 100 posts about how BRAVE is blueing everyone and how PL drops a titan at the drop of a hat just to see what has been written about the actual SOV system.

Can someone from CCP please create another topic for Playtest discussions/general whining about how "PL is crushing everyone" and keep this thread for actual Bug Reports/suggestions and improvements.

Or the other way around since it seems 80% of this thread is already filled with anything but what should be in here.
Ruune en Gravonere
Running with Dogs
Northern Coalition.
#245 - 2015-06-23 09:53:13 UTC
Could we have some kind of clear graphic that shows counter entosis'ing (is that a word!!) different colours for the streams or something
BlitZ Kotare
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#246 - 2015-06-23 11:48:50 UTC
Ruune en Gravonere wrote:
Could we have some kind of clear graphic that shows counter entosis'ing (is that a word!!) different colours for the streams or something


Don't cross the streams!!! ShockedShockedShockedShocked
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#247 - 2015-06-23 12:13:47 UTC
On the solar system show info window, sovereignty tab, I like how it now states clearly "Station secure" or "Station vulnerable now".

However, there is no way to see what the vulnerability time window is for the system now. Also, the displaying of the current time followed by a timer that is always starting at two hours continues to cause confusion.

Since we'll be able to set individual structures/systems to vulnerability windows other than the alliance-wide default, it would be nice if you could see what the vulnerability window is on those individual structures when you show info on them. For example, when I show info on a TCU, there is no information whatsoever about its current status or vulnerability window. Of course, that shows in the upper left corner, but it'd be nice if it displayed on the show info of those structures individually, too.

REALLY REALLY miss seeing who "owns" a system across the top left corner by the system name, like it is on TQ now, especially when roaming. Ya, I know, just hover over any of the three sov icons, but it's just not as efficient as simply glancing at the upper left.



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Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#248 - 2015-06-23 13:51:21 UTC
Quote:
The names of every alliance that participates in this testing event (by capturing at least one system within the competition area) will be listed in the description of the Entosis Link I blueprint,


Clarification, please. By "capturing at least one system" do you mean any one sov structure, or only at least one TCU, or all three sov structures in a system?

In other words, what exactly do you mean by "at least one system"?

Thanks!

GG

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

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Zibru Povens
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#249 - 2015-06-23 14:09:47 UTC
Greygal wrote:
Quote:
The names of every alliance that participates in this testing event (by capturing at least one system within the competition area) will be listed in the description of the Entosis Link I blueprint,


Clarification, please. By "capturing at least one system" do you mean any one sov structure, or only at least one TCU, or all three sov structures in a system?

In other words, what exactly do you mean by "at least one system"?

Thanks!

GG



I'm sure if you talk to the right people you'll get the chance of 'capturing' all 3 structures of a system.
Warmeister
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#250 - 2015-06-23 14:14:35 UTC
Also do u get points for holding your own systems, or do you need to capture someone's?
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#251 - 2015-06-23 14:34:18 UTC
On Corporation Window, Alliance Tab, Systems sub-tab, would be nice if the status of any/all sov structures in each owned system were displayed there. Also, on this tab, please make it columnar so we can sort by system name and region, and add constellation column.

(I'm assuming the Corporation Window, Alliance Tab, Sovereignty sub-tab is meant to display all sov regardless of owner, not just your own sov, but hard to say for certain since it still contains fake data. If this tab will eventually only show your own sov structures, then ignore my first comment above).

I'd kill for an actual countdown timer on the green circles when entosising something...



What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

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Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#252 - 2015-06-23 14:40:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Greygal
Zibru Povens wrote:
I'm sure if you talk to the right people you'll get the chance of 'capturing' all 3 structures of a system.


lol the problem isn't capturing the systems, it's finding vulnerable systems to attack ... the current UI (or lack thereof) makes it kind of a pita :) Fozzie's list (which is fabulous) is often out of date by the time I log on (I'm mostly active Aussie time zone), so I spend the first 20-30 minutes logged on trying to determine the status of potential systems (for example, quite often the systems on Fozzie's list I'd be most interested in chasing nodes on, have already been taken over by the time I log on).

Or find myself accidentally helping someone else take over an ihub or tcu because they were capturing nodes at the same time we were Big smile That was actually very funny.

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

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CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#253 - 2015-06-23 16:13:26 UTC
Hey everyone, thanks for all your feedback and testing so far, its been really invaluable, and we're taking all feedback into account even if we haven't had time to reply to it all!

Just want to let you know that we are planning a special mass test on Duality on Thursday, June 25th, at 17:00 UTC (= EVE time), and let you know how this affects the wargames.

Important: The sovereignty playtest in Providence and Catch will be paused from 16:30 until 18:30 on Thursday, June 25th - CCP will enforce this and if necessary revert any progress made during this time.

What exactly is being tested?
Sovereignty changes
Server and client performance

Test steps:
Probably similar to following, systems will be decided later:

Meet in system WWW (outside of target constellation) - We will add this system to the /moveme command
Mass jump into XXX (in target constellation)
Spread out over the whole constellation in small groups and capture as many sites as possible
Jump to system YYY and warp to station
Reinforce station with MANY entosis links - no PVP
Start PVP after several minutes (wait for the command by CCP)
Ceasefire (optimally when station is reinforced) and warp away
Spread out over the whole constellation
Capture the freeport in ZZZ - combat allowed - free for all!


What else should I know?
  • Bring appropriate ships for sov warfare - Please fit Entosis Links if possible.
  • Fleets will be mostly player organized, but there will also be a CCP organized fleet
  • For moving to the test system - use /moveme
  • 2M Skill points will be awarded on both Singularity and Duality for this mass test
  • We will reactivate moveme for each wargame constellation for 30 minutes after the test ends, to allow people to return.

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#254 - 2015-06-23 16:18:54 UTC  |  Edited by: SilentAsTheGrave
Greygal wrote:
Zibru Povens wrote:
I'm sure if you talk to the right people you'll get the chance of 'capturing' all 3 structures of a system.


lol the problem isn't capturing the systems, it's finding vulnerable systems to attack ... the current UI (or lack thereof) makes it kind of a pita :) Fozzie's list (which is fabulous) is often out of date by the time I log on (I'm mostly active Aussie time zone), so I spend the first 20-30 minutes logged on trying to determine the status of potential systems (for example, quite often the systems on Fozzie's list I'd be most interested in chasing nodes on, have already been taken over by the time I log on).

Or find myself accidentally helping someone else take over an ihub or tcu because they were capturing nodes at the same time we were Big smile That was actually very funny.

If you show info on the alliance that owns the system under the attributes tab, it lists the default vulnerability time. But it seems to not be working as they all show 02:00. I imagine this will be functional when it goes live on TQ, but like you said, there is no clear indication outside of flying to each system and mousing over the three icons.

I'm a bit torn on how easy this information should be easily available. On one hand it would be neat if there was some color system that showed variations between green and red to indicate at a quick glance what systems are getting closer and closer to being vulnerable. Closer and closer to solid green to represent the exact opposite of the vulnerable window.

On the other hand hitting F10 and the game telling you where to go without much effort beyond hitting the one key feels a bit too easy with valuable information with no effort. Maybe if the player was physically in the region or constellation, then when you look at the map, you get the color system. Quick glance and you can see what you would find interesting and then a mouse over the system in question would show a detailed break down of the TCU, I-hub and station times and owner.
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#255 - 2015-06-23 17:03:10 UTC
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:

If you show info on the alliance that owns the system under the attributes tab, it lists the default vulnerability time. But it seems to not be working as they all show 02:00. I imagine this will be functional when it goes live on TQ, but like you said, there is no clear indication outside of flying to each system and mousing over the three icons.

I'm a bit torn on how easy this information should be easily available. On one hand it would be neat if there was some color system that showed variations between green and red to indicate at a quick glance what systems are getting closer and closer to being vulnerable. Closer and closer to solid green to represent the exact opposite of the vulnerable window.

On the other hand hitting F10 and the game telling you where to go without much effort beyond hitting the one key feels a bit too easy with valuable information with no effort. Maybe if the player was physically in the region or constellation, then when you look at the map, you get the color system. Quick glance and you can see what you would find interesting and then a mouse over the system in question would show a detailed break down of the TCU, I-hub and station times and owner.


That's odd... show-info on alliances always shows 10:00 to me, which is our default vulnerability window. Is your default vulnerability window 02:00 by chance?

You don't realize how much you use and depend on Dotlan until you can't use it, WTB Dotlan for Duality! Blink

I used to be unsure and somewhat torn, like you, about how accessible vulnerability and reinforcement/contested timers should be, but now that I've played around with it both as attacker and defender, I'm TOTALLY for this information being as accessible as possible. It's my understanding much of this information will be available via CREST, and I imagine many fabulous tools will be built using the CREST endpoint. When I'm having to show-info on individual systems I own just to figure out what's going on in my own space, there's a data accessibility issue.

On TQ, we use the map to find out where people are hanging out, where fights are happening, and more. When we roam, we head to all the big red spots on the map, 'cause that's where we're going to find the fights, find targets, get whelped, get blueballed, whatever. Where there are people, there is (potential) content.

With Fozziesov, that remains true, except people will be both more concentrated and more spread out, which excites me as it relates to roaming, whether in a small internal gang or one of my NewBro or other public roams. We should find more opportunities for fun fights, more often, when roaming null. Assuming they don't destroy fleetwarp, but that's for another thread.... Big smile

Even though this is a testing situation we're playing in on Duality, you can see that happening already - people staying close to home, but also spread throughout their own constellation or territory, more than I see typically on TQ when roaming.

I do believe the default vulnerability timers and all other sov timers need to be accessible because we're going from a system where you can attack anyone, anytime, to a system where you can only attack someone during the time they determine. The widening vulnerability window means that, as indexes drop, we in the Aussie/Oceanic time zone will have a lot more systems available for us to mess with, attack, or otherwise harass, but we'll still have far fewer systems available for us to attack than other prime time zones. That means we'll have to roam far and wide to find content; having the sov related timers accessible via CREST or in-game map will help better prepare and plan roams, as knowing who is vulnerable during our active times helps us know where to roam to find content.

There's other reasons for the timers to be accessible, but I've already exceeded my monthly wall-of-text quota Big smile

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!

Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information

Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#256 - 2015-06-23 17:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Greygal
Some random thoughts/impressions....

- I still keep undocking without stront... despite this failure on my part, I think adding stront to the entosis link was a great idea. I've already seen it developing into a "very important support role" for my newer/lower skilled pilots, and they seem to get a kick out of running around jetting stront to people as they sit there sov mining for an hour on a single node Cool

- There is a definite rock-paper-scissors-Spock element to the new sov system. Station service gets attacked by an assault frigate, I undock a Rook to jam him/her off, his/her buddy undocks in a Golem ... I die.... In fact, I suspect we're going to see mauraders in particular used as entosis link ships a lot on TQ.

- Station services may need to be rethought. It is my understanding that the reason you can knock station services offline at any time is, well, to provide content, to pick a fight. That's not happening. Instead, more often than not, they just ignore you as you knock their station services offline, wait for you to leave, then undock and reset their station services. They are not only too easy to knock offline, they are too easy to get back online. As it is right now, it seems like station services is just an annoyance (although it is funny to see people run around trying to catch you as you hit their services, it's occasionally an effective way to split a defending force up around their constellation).

- While I believe and agree that actively owned and used systems should have strong defensive bonuses/activity bonuses, I think the bonuses are too strong. 60 minutes to take a single command node is torture, even more so when it's not contested. If I want the mind-numbing boredom of mining, I'll go mine rocks in a belt. (Edit: See next point, but imagine the frustration of being a defending alliance who has to sit on their hands waiting 60 minutes for a node to spawn, because the larger attacking alliance has control of all of the initial five command nodes spawned. Ya, ya, I know, defenders will attack with jams or damps or other harassment tactics, but you get the idea).

- I also think the spawning of the command nodes needs to be rethought, because as it is right now, who brings the most pilots "wins," and I don't think that's necessarily how it's intended. Right now, when a reinforcement timer ends, five command nodes are spawned. If you have greater numbers than the other side, the odds of you getting one of your people onto those five command nodes first is high. If you get on all five of the initially spawned command nodes first, then opposing side has no command nodes to grab to counter you. You then have to wait for one of those nodes to be captured, before another one spawns, and hope you get on it before they do. An attacking (or defending) force can, with enough people, shut the other side out of any realistic chance of capturing nodes for themselves. Imagine the futility of a 50 pilot alliance trying to capture nodes against a 2,000 pilot alliance... you don't even have a chance to sneak one in under the gun! They can, of course, shoot you, or link up on the same node to halt your progress, but that's not the point I'm trying to make Roll The point I'm trying to make is I think that the spawning of command nodes needs to be more random right from the beginning, and throughout the capture event. Otherwise, regardless of defensive bonuses, we're just going to have the same blobfare style of warfare we already have right now, just spread out over a constellation instead of a single system. (Yes, I know, there's just no way to ever get away from who brings the most people wins stuff, but we can mitigate and lessen it, can't we?)

(Edit: The tl;dr of it is I think either the spawn rate of command nodes or the max defense bonus needs to be tweaked/rethought, the current combination of both encourages blobbing and is also not-fun).

- Any fears that capitals would be useless under FozzieSov are laid to rest. If anything, they may be even more used.

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

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Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information

SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#257 - 2015-06-23 20:13:12 UTC
What of adjacent systems that are not under the alliances control limits the cap on the defensive multiplier? It would add a bit mor 'terrain' to the area and mean that these border systems are softer targets and easier to Entosis, time wise?

Example: your alliance has dog in system A. System A is connected to systems B, C and D. You also have sov in systems C and D, but someone else has system B. That means the system defensive multiplier caps at 5. If you take sov in system B then the cap for system A is back to the max of 6 multiplier.

But let's say instead you lost sov in systems C and D. That means system A is capped at 3 multiplier because the 3 systems connected to it your alliance does not have sov in.


I hope I didn't make that sound complicated. Thought?
Ruune en Gravonere
Running with Dogs
Northern Coalition.
#258 - 2015-06-23 20:40:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Ruune en Gravonere
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
What of adjacent systems that are not under the alliances control limits the cap on the defensive multiplier? It would add a bit mor 'terrain' to the area and mean that these border systems are softer targets and easier to Entosis, time wise?

Example: your alliance has dog in system A. System A is connected to systems B, C and D. You also have sov in systems C and D, but someone else has system B. That means the system defensive multiplier caps at 5. If you take sov in system B then the cap for system A is back to the max of 6 multiplier.

But let's say instead you lost sov in systems C and D. That means system A is capped at 3 multiplier because the 3 systems connected to it your alliance does not have sov in.


I hope I didn't make that sound complicated. Thought?


i understood almost all the words.... but my brain hurts now What?

EDIT: being serious though... it must not be too complicated to explain... even if the background mechanics are clever and worthy of discussion to the front line grunt, and i count myself amongst them, i need to know in simple terms what i need to do to win the objective...
CCP Lebowski
C C P
C C P Alliance
#259 - 2015-06-23 21:08:34 UTC
Hey all,

just a quick update, we're aware that an issue with capture times not taking into account a systems Activity Defense Multiplier have cropped up again. We've fixed the problem locally and will be updating the server with a new build as soon as its ready (Should only be a couple of hours now) .

Additionally this build should also resolve some of the other known issues, including problems with installing upgrades in Ihubs.

Stay tuned!

CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0

@CCP_Lebowski

SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#260 - 2015-06-23 21:14:46 UTC
Ruune en Gravonere wrote:
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
What of adjacent systems that are not under the alliances control limits the cap on the defensive multiplier? It would add a bit mor 'terrain' to the area and mean that these border systems are softer targets and easier to Entosis, time wise?

Example: your alliance has dog in system A. System A is connected to systems B, C and D. You also have sov in systems C and D, but someone else has system B. That means the system defensive multiplier caps at 5. If you take sov in system B then the cap for system A is back to the max of 6 multiplier.

But let's say instead you lost sov in systems C and D. That means system A is capped at 3 multiplier because the 3 systems connected to it your alliance does not have sov in.


I hope I didn't make that sound complicated. Thought?


i understood almost all the words.... but my brain hurts now What?

EDIT: being serious though... it must not be too complicated to explain... even if the background mechanics are clever and worthy of discussion to the front line grunt, and i count myself amongst them, i need to know in simple terms what i need to do to win the objective...

How about this:

For each system adjacent that is not part of the same alliance sov, lowers the defensive multiplier cap by one.