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Astero for Relic/Data sites?

Author
Smelly Boyhehe
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2015-06-22 10:54:57 UTC
I've decided to give exploration a go as my income (For my main) and now that I have the skills trained, I'm ready to give it a low in Null or WH space (Flying solo)

Everyone I've talked too suggested I use an astero. How come, though? They're a lot more expensive than t2 cov op frigates and only really seem to offer drones as a bonus.
But from my understanding, I should be avoiding any data/relic sites that contain sleepers/NPC's (Wormhole class 4+ I believe?)
Or will the astero allow me to hold my ground in the more difficult relic/data sites?
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#2 - 2015-06-22 10:59:58 UTC
Smelly Boyhehe wrote:
I've decided to give exploration a go as my income (For my main) and now that I have the skills trained, I'm ready to give it a low in Null or WH space (Flying solo)

Everyone I've talked too suggested I use an astero. How come, though? They're a lot more expensive than t2 cov op frigates and only really seem to offer drones as a bonus.
But from my understanding, I should be avoiding any data/relic sites that contain sleepers/NPC's (Wormhole class 4+ I believe?)
Or will the astero allow me to hold my ground in the more difficult relic/data sites?



It's role bonuses are what set it apart from the other T1 exploration frigates. Right out the box it's like being able to fly a Covert Ops.

Ofc the catch is its price tag.

@lunettelulu7

Smelly Boyhehe
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2015-06-22 11:02:25 UTC
Lulu Lunette wrote:
Smelly Boyhehe wrote:
I've decided to give exploration a go as my income (For my main) and now that I have the skills trained, I'm ready to give it a low in Null or WH space (Flying solo)

Everyone I've talked too suggested I use an astero. How come, though? They're a lot more expensive than t2 cov op frigates and only really seem to offer drones as a bonus.
But from my understanding, I should be avoiding any data/relic sites that contain sleepers/NPC's (Wormhole class 4+ I believe?)
Or will the astero allow me to hold my ground in the more difficult relic/data sites?



It's role bonuses are what set it apart from the other T1 exploration frigates. Right out the box it's like being able to fly a Covert Ops.

Ofc the catch is its price tag.


Ahh, I might as well just avoid it then as I have all the factions frigate skills at five and covert ops at 5.
Cheers c:
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#4 - 2015-06-22 11:06:45 UTC
It's the quickest covops train,from day one You can be cloaking in one in about a week as it's prerequisites are much less than the t2 frigates.

It's also quite a good frigate when trained fully.

Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
#5 - 2015-06-22 11:09:54 UTC
Smelly Boyhehe wrote:
Lulu Lunette wrote:
Smelly Boyhehe wrote:
I've decided to give exploration a go as my income (For my main) and now that I have the skills trained, I'm ready to give it a low in Null or WH space (Flying solo)

Everyone I've talked too suggested I use an astero. How come, though? They're a lot more expensive than t2 cov op frigates and only really seem to offer drones as a bonus.
But from my understanding, I should be avoiding any data/relic sites that contain sleepers/NPC's (Wormhole class 4+ I believe?)
Or will the astero allow me to hold my ground in the more difficult relic/data sites?



It's role bonuses are what set it apart from the other T1 exploration frigates. Right out the box it's like being able to fly a Covert Ops.

Ofc the catch is its price tag.


Ahh, I might as well just avoid it then as I have all the factions frigate skills at five and covert ops at 5.
Cheers c:


Definitely. Big smile

Looking at this recently I saw that it was something like the Astero being the best thing you can use until you have Covert Ops IV. I think lots of people suggest Astero because it's a fraction of the training time needed.

@lunettelulu7

Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2015-06-22 11:11:39 UTC
That, and it can actually defend itself reasonably well. Any cloaky bomber attacking you is going to have a bad day, whereas a CovOps frig is probably boned in that situation.

Personally, I'd advise practicing a bit in a Magnate/Imicus or whatever. Get a feel for staying safe and how to get around, then jump into the Astero.

Grrr.

Smelly Boyhehe
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2015-06-22 11:15:36 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
That, and it can actually defend itself reasonably well. Any cloaky bomber attacking you is going to have a bad day, whereas a CovOps frig is probably boned in that situation.

Personally, I'd advise practicing a bit in a Magnate/Imicus or whatever. Get a feel for staying safe and how to get around, then jump into the Astero.


Would you suggest the Imicus over the cheetah? As I'm not sure what one to go with (I'm capable of flying any of the factions Coert Op frigs)
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2015-06-22 11:42:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Azda Ja
Smelly Boyhehe wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:
That, and it can actually defend itself reasonably well. Any cloaky bomber attacking you is going to have a bad day, whereas a CovOps frig is probably boned in that situation.

Personally, I'd advise practicing a bit in a Magnate/Imicus or whatever. Get a feel for staying safe and how to get around, then jump into the Astero.


Would you suggest the Imicus over the cheetah? As I'm not sure what one to go with (I'm capable of flying any of the factions Coert Op frigs)

The Imicus is the T1 Exploration frigate, Cheetah is the CovOps frig. The opinion that follows is based purely on Theorycrafting in EFT and experience in other ships, so take it with a grain of salt.

The Cheetah's big selling point as far as I can see is it's speed while cloaked, for exploration that seems to me to be of fairly limited use. When it comes to getting warp ins for cloaky ganks/ grid manipulation in fleet fights, that's far more useful.

If I were to use one for exploration I'd go with this:

[Cheetah, Cheetah fit]

Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Relic Analyzer II
Scan Rangefinding Array I
Scan Acquisition Array I

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Core Probe Launcher I
Salvager I

Small Emission Scope Sharpener I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

You're only as safe as the amount of attention you're paying to your surroundings. Spam that dscan button like an 80s cokehead and make sure you can see your overview while hacking cans. If you see ANYTHING on the overview that can shoot, run. The Astero as said earlier has more options in such a situation, it can defend itself from most other frigates. However, I've had success exploring in a T1 Explo frig without a covops cloak. Made my life a little more difficult, but nothing some experience, patience and a dash of luck can't solve.

EDIT: to more directly answer your question. If you can already fly it, go with the Cheetah over the T1 versions (Imicus, Probe, Magnate, Heron). It's only a bit more expensive and can pay for itself in one or two Relic sites.

Grrr.

Smelly Boyhehe
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2015-06-22 12:03:29 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
Smelly Boyhehe wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:
That, and it can actually defend itself reasonably well. Any cloaky bomber attacking you is going to have a bad day, whereas a CovOps frig is probably boned in that situation.

Personally, I'd advise practicing a bit in a Magnate/Imicus or whatever. Get a feel for staying safe and how to get around, then jump into the Astero.


Would you suggest the Imicus over the cheetah? As I'm not sure what one to go with (I'm capable of flying any of the factions Coert Op frigs)

The Imicus is the T1 Exploration frigate, Cheetah is the CovOps frig. The opinion that follows is based purely on Theorycrafting in EFT and experience in other ships, so take it with a grain of salt.

The Cheetah's big selling point as far as I can see is it's speed while cloaked, for exploration that seems to me to be of fairly limited use. When it comes to getting warp ins for cloaky ganks/ grid manipulation in fleet fights, that's far more useful.

If I were to use one for exploration I'd go with this:

[Cheetah, Cheetah fit]

Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Relic Analyzer II
Scan Rangefinding Array I
Scan Acquisition Array I

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Core Probe Launcher I
Salvager I

Small Emission Scope Sharpener I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

You're only as safe as the amount of attention you're paying to your surroundings. Spam that dscan button like an 80s cokehead and make sure you can see your overview while hacking cans. If you see ANYTHING on the overview that can shoot, run. The Astero as said earlier has more options in such a situation, it can defend itself from most other frigates. However, I've had success exploring in a T1 Explo frig without a covops cloak. Made my life a little more difficult, but nothing some experience, patience and a dash of luck can't solve.

EDIT: to more directly answer your question. If you can already fly it, go with the Cheetah over the T1 versions (Imicus, Probe, Magnate, Heron). It's only a bit more expensive and can pay for itself in one or two Relic sites.


Thank you c:
I'll throw the fit together when I get home and start hunting down some c1-c3 wormholes for sites to hack.
Is it true that only relic sites are really 'worth it' and data sites can mostly be avoided?
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2015-06-22 12:12:29 UTC
They tend to be worth more yes (as far as I can tell), but I'm sure you can make it big with datas as well, up to you really. Relics tend to get cleared quickly compared to datas, so it's a trade off. Personally I've never bothered with datas, but that's just me.

Grrr.

Praxis Ginimic
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-06-22 14:35:09 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
Smelly Boyhehe wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:
That, and it can actually defend itself reasonably well. Any cloaky bomber attacking you is going to have a bad day, whereas a CovOps frig is probably boned in that situation.

Personally, I'd advise practicing a bit in a Magnate/Imicus or whatever. Get a feel for staying safe and how to get around, then jump into the Astero.


Would you suggest the Imicus over the cheetah? As I'm not sure what one to go with (I'm capable of flying any of the factions Coert Op frigs)

The Imicus is the T1 Exploration frigate, Cheetah is the CovOps frig. The opinion that follows is based purely on Theorycrafting in EFT and experience in other ships, so take it with a grain of salt.

The Cheetah's big selling point as far as I can see is it's speed while cloaked, for exploration that seems to me to be of fairly limited use. When it comes to getting warp ins for cloaky ganks/ grid manipulation in fleet fights, that's far more useful.

If I were to use one for exploration I'd go with this:

[Cheetah, Cheetah fit]

Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Relic Analyzer II
Scan Rangefinding Array I
Scan Acquisition Array I

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Core Probe Launcher I
Salvager I

Small Emission Scope Sharpener I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

You're only as safe as the amount of attention you're paying to your surroundings. Spam that dscan button like an 80s cokehead and make sure you can see your overview while hacking cans. If you see ANYTHING on the overview that can shoot, run. The Astero as said earlier has more options in such a situation, it can defend itself from most other frigates. However, I've had success exploring in a T1 Explo frig without a covops cloak. Made my life a little more difficult, but nothing some experience, patience and a dash of luck can't solve.

EDIT: to more directly answer your question. If you can already fly it, go with the Cheetah over the T1 versions (Imicus, Probe, Magnate, Heron). It's only a bit more expensive and can pay for itself in one or two Relic sites.


You can't put a cov ops cloak on an imicus. Dude, you have the sKills. Just fit out a Helios or a buzzard (which both have the most fitting space) and go for it. Skip low sec though. Go right for null and wh's.
Smelly Boyhehe
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-06-22 14:41:02 UTC
Praxis Ginimic wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:
Smelly Boyhehe wrote:
Azda Ja wrote:
That, and it can actually defend itself reasonably well. Any cloaky bomber attacking you is going to have a bad day, whereas a CovOps frig is probably boned in that situation.

Personally, I'd advise practicing a bit in a Magnate/Imicus or whatever. Get a feel for staying safe and how to get around, then jump into the Astero.


Would you suggest the Imicus over the cheetah? As I'm not sure what one to go with (I'm capable of flying any of the factions Coert Op frigs)

The Imicus is the T1 Exploration frigate, Cheetah is the CovOps frig. The opinion that follows is based purely on Theorycrafting in EFT and experience in other ships, so take it with a grain of salt.

The Cheetah's big selling point as far as I can see is it's speed while cloaked, for exploration that seems to me to be of fairly limited use. When it comes to getting warp ins for cloaky ganks/ grid manipulation in fleet fights, that's far more useful.

If I were to use one for exploration I'd go with this:

[Cheetah, Cheetah fit]

Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Relic Analyzer II
Scan Rangefinding Array I
Scan Acquisition Array I

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Core Probe Launcher I
Salvager I

Small Emission Scope Sharpener I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

You're only as safe as the amount of attention you're paying to your surroundings. Spam that dscan button like an 80s cokehead and make sure you can see your overview while hacking cans. If you see ANYTHING on the overview that can shoot, run. The Astero as said earlier has more options in such a situation, it can defend itself from most other frigates. However, I've had success exploring in a T1 Explo frig without a covops cloak. Made my life a little more difficult, but nothing some experience, patience and a dash of luck can't solve.

EDIT: to more directly answer your question. If you can already fly it, go with the Cheetah over the T1 versions (Imicus, Probe, Magnate, Heron). It's only a bit more expensive and can pay for itself in one or two Relic sites.


You can't put a cov ops cloak on an imicus. Dude, you have the sKills. Just fit out a Helios or a buzzard (which both have the most fitting space) and go for it. Skip low sec though. Go right for null and wh's.


I got mixed up and thought the imicus was the gallente Cov ops ship and not the T1 aha c:
Petre en Thielles
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-06-22 17:03:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Petre en Thielles
Smelly Boyhehe wrote:

Thank you c:
I'll throw the fit together when I get home and start hunting down some c1-c3 wormholes for sites to hack.
Is it true that only relic sites are really 'worth it' and data sites can mostly be avoided?



I did exploration as my source of income on my main for a year or so, I ran any data site I found. I used a helios,

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher

5MN Y-T8 Compact Microwarpdrive
Relic Analyzer I
Data Analyzer I
Scan Rangefinding Array II
Cargo Scanner II

Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

Small Emission Scope Sharpener I
Small Memetic Algorithm Bank I

I also carried one small ECM drone, just for that snowball's chance in hell I can break the lock of a ganker


I never understood the "avoid data sites" theory. I always figured the ISK I can earn from the data site I already scanned down beats spening 10 minutes of making nothing finding the next relic site.

As others have said, spam d-scan. Put an overview setting together that only shows probes, ships, and MTUs/depots, etc. and set that as your setting in d-scan, so the results aren't cluttered. I also found and BMed any active POS's in the system using dscan only before I dropped probes or uncloaked.

Edit: a buzzard is probably better, since you can fit a salvager, I personally hate how it looks though, so the idea of spending a week undocked looking at that ugly monstrosity scares me.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#14 - 2015-06-24 15:49:30 UTC
Smelly Boyhehe wrote:
Would you suggest the Imicus over the cheetah? As I'm not sure what one to go with (I'm capable of flying any of the factions Coert Op frigs)


The Imicus' pudgy tea-sipping hippie brother the Helios can throw a T2 small drone in the face of anyone that gives them trouble, which is often useful when dealing with NPCs but significantly less of a difference since defenders got stripped out of a lot of the exploration sites. It's also fairly unique among the T2 ships for having even that token level of offense.

Imicus, however, isn't a covops at all, and it has a bandwidth of twenty, meaning that even though you can only fit a standard cloak you can also hit people that bug you with damn near a full flight of damage-bonused drones, without reducing your effectiveness as a scanner-boat in the slightest. Also, as a T1 ship, it's cheap to the point that you might accidentally buy a stack of 100 when you meant to buy 1 and not notice until a week later.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-06-27 17:49:42 UTC
I would definitely recommend the astero, if you're in a covops you almost have zero way of defending yourself and basically if anyone else in a astero is around in the same system you have to give up the sites to them or get blown up.

In fact as mentioned even an Imicus will be able to rout any covops frigate and I dare say a magnate will be able to as well.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#16 - 2015-06-28 09:37:59 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
if you're in a covops you almost have zero way of defending yourself


That doesn't necessarily mean you need an astero, though. Warping cloaked is kind of pointless if you're just running sites, you sit still in one place while probing, then you have to decloak in the actual site.

Warp cloaked is primarily an offensive measure when you're trying to sneak up on someone, either to straight-up kill them (stealth bomber, Astero, or about half the covert cruisers) or to lock them down and drop your friends on top of them (the other half of the covert cruisers, covops ships, etc). Its defensive value is negligible, it'll do nothing to protect you if you're the one potentially getting jumped.

In fact, if you're using it for PvE it's a bit counterproductive, because an Imicus running a data site isn't worth the time and trouble, whereas a helios or astero is a lovely little expensive kill for your KB stats, which isn't getting a damned thing from that covops cloak while it's hovering there playing with the hacking minigame.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-06-28 11:40:23 UTC
the point of the astero is it's combat capabilities, not what kind of cloak it can use.
Yossarian Toralen
M and M Enterpises
#18 - 2015-06-28 11:47:08 UTC
Warping cloaked is handy for getting past gate camps, clean camps that aren't bubbled at least.
Cellini Benvenuto
Ephemeral Syzygy
#19 - 2015-06-28 11:52:46 UTC
Lost Greybeard wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
if you're in a covops you almost have zero way of defending yourself


That doesn't necessarily mean you need an astero, though. Warping cloaked is kind of pointless if you're just running sites, you sit still in one place while probing, then you have to decloak in the actual site.

Warp cloaked is primarily an offensive measure when you're trying to sneak up on someone, either to straight-up kill them (stealth bomber, Astero, or about half the covert cruisers) or to lock them down and drop your friends on top of them (the other half of the covert cruisers, covops ships, etc). Its defensive value is negligible, it'll do nothing to protect you if you're the one potentially getting jumped.

In fact, if you're using it for PvE it's a bit counterproductive, because an Imicus running a data site isn't worth the time and trouble, whereas a helios or astero is a lovely little expensive kill for your KB stats, which isn't getting a damned thing from that covops cloak while it's hovering there playing with the hacking minigame.



From a new player's pov who isn't covops capable yet and plays solo: there are two parts to the equation. First is getting there. And second is doing your thing.

To do your thing, a magnate, probe, et al, is usually sufficient. Typically, if there are people around, hacking cans is just inviting trouble as, at least on my skill level, it takes a bit of time and your concentration is divided between the hack and the d-scan and the local. Besides, as I've been learning, if it is the other guy who attacks you, a majority of the battle is already lost because he has chosen you as the prey, probably thought about how he's going to kill you, probably has done his homework on you, etc, etc.

The other part is getting where you want to go. And that's where covops capable ships help, especially in null.
Hipqo
Tyde8
#20 - 2015-06-28 12:43:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Hipqo
If all you want is to do data/relic sites, the astero isnt needed, since it cant tank or kill sleepers in thoose sites anyway, well perhaps some c1 sites, but thats about it.
Astero is really only needed if you wanna do PVP and catch people in sites or do lower level combat sites. If all you wanna do is run the data/relic site and be gone, covert ops will do a better job, as it has better scanning bonusses then the astero and can warp and align much faster.

I can highly recommend the Helios, because of the high number of mid slots and the pricetag of covert ops frigs arent big, compared to the astero.



[Helios, Null/WH exploration]

Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Nanofiber Internal Structure II

5MN Microwarpdrive II
Relic Analyzer I
Data Analyzer I
Scan Rangefinding Array I
Scan Pinpointing Array I

Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Sisters Core Scanner Probe
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Small Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade II

Price: ~70m
Warps at 10 AU, aligns in 3,2 secs, top speed at 3299 km/s and has some amazing scanning bonusses
EHP isnt important, if you get caught you die anyway, hence fast align- and warpspeed.



Ive used this fit here alot, never ever got caught in any gate camp. Just remember to do the MWD trick, where you circle the MWD one time and instant cloak, you will be way out of bubbles before anyone is even remotely close to you or has a chance of decloaking you.
The warp speed also insured that 85%+ of people arent able to keep up with you, if you decide to burn systems to get away.

Alternatively, you could swap the Data Analyzer I for another Scan Rangefinding Array I, if you dont intend to do data sites anyway, but i liked having the option to do both kinds of sites and you already have really good scanning bonusses on the ship :)
Also, it can carry one drone.... One!! So i never use drones on it hehe, as one combat drone wont help you and one ECM drone wont do anything either. If you really want to utilize the drone bay, stuff a Salvage Drone I in there and hope you come across wrecks left behind :)

Just my 2 cents.

A life is best lived, to not step into your grave in a well preserved body. Instead, to slide in side ways, all battered and bruised, screamming, "Holy SH**! What a ride!"

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