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An open letter to CCP.

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Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#101 - 2015-06-22 03:05:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Otso Bakarti wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Otso Bakarti wrote:
...gankers don't pay any price, so if CCP loves them so much, they should be prepared to say "bye" to people who pay real money for accounts, and "hi" to PLEXers. (Maybe they've found a way to pay staff in game time! Oh, well, what staff they have left...new office huh? Must be doing real well with that revenue.)
Just between us, of course. Shhhhh.

Shocked
Or maybe, CCP understand that all PLEX used by plexers was also paid for with real money. Given that PLEX is, in general, more expensive than subscribed accounts, it could be seen as an increase in revenue.
What planet are you from? PLEX is bought with ingame money.
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
. No idea why everyone is so concerned with CCPs revenue all the time. I think they can handle that on their own they don't need your special advice to survive.
Uh...advice? I gave no one advice. Where did you see me offer advice? The thing about the REVENUE is, no money, no gamee. I guess someone had to tell you that. You're welcome. Oh yes. Inhale! Exhale! Inhale! Exhale!

Go here and see if you can buy PLEX with in game ISK:

https://secure.eveonline.com/plex/

You know PLEX doesn't initially spawn in game right? You can't generate PLEX in game. It has to be purchased out of game first and then redeemed.

What happens to it after that is up to whoever has it then, but it always begins as a purchase with real money. CCP always get their revenue.
Shiloh Templeton
Cheyenne HET Co
#102 - 2015-06-22 03:12:04 UTC
Finn McCoul wrote:
Concord just isn’t enough and did absolutely nothing. It doesn’t protect you against extortion so where were / are the in game mods? Or better yet why not have Honorary Concord Members who are players protecting players against attacks like this?

Is there an effective counter to the freighter bumping gate gank? Even with a webbing associate, won't the bump prevent a warp?

Is the MWD+warp trick sufficient to get an Orca away from the bump?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#103 - 2015-06-22 03:21:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Double post.
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#104 - 2015-06-22 03:44:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kinete Jenius
Otso Bakarti wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Otso Bakarti wrote:
...gankers don't pay any price, so if CCP loves them so much, they should be prepared to say "bye" to people who pay real money for accounts, and "hi" to PLEXers. (Maybe they've found a way to pay staff in game time! Oh, well, what staff they have left...new office huh? Must be doing real well with that revenue.)
Just between us, of course. Shhhhh.

Shocked
Or maybe, CCP understand that all PLEX used by plexers was also paid for with real money. Given that PLEX is, in general, more expensive than subscribed accounts, it could be seen as an increase in revenue.
What planet are you from? PLEX is bought with ingame money.


I can't tell if you're being intentional dense or not. Regardless I'll bite. Every PLEX bought in game with in game isk was put there by someone who bought it out of game with real money.


Shiloh Templeton wrote:
Is there an effective counter to the freighter bumping gate gank? Even with a webbing associate, won't the bump prevent a warp?

Is the MWD+warp trick sufficient to get an Orca away from the bump?

For freighters your only real hope is to go through while they are busy with another target, have a GOOD webber to get you through or just bypass the area. MWD orcas work fine unless you fail at it or get unlucky with spawn positioning. If you get hit by a bumper you're basically dead depending on the resulting parameters.

XODIOS Katelo wrote:
I found your loss.

You flew an untanked freighter through a known ganking system, what on earth did you expect?

this was all you dude.

Why do people keep mentioning the lack of a tank in this situation? It didn't matter if his tank was maxed out or not. 18 catalysts and a talos is at least 323k damage. If they pre-positioned concord away from the bump area then it's more like 387k damage. A max tanked charon with all V skills only has about 307k ehp. That means regardless of tank that charon was going to die.

Tank isn't going to save you from anything other then maybe gank newbies. A good tank could dissuade some of the smaller ganker groups too but with hyperdunking being allowed it's unlikely. The people involved with this gank though are NOT gank newbies.
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#105 - 2015-06-22 04:23:59 UTC
To the people who can't read past page 1 of this thread, allow me to qoute OP's response.

Finn McCoul wrote:
I know I mentioned this in my last post but seriously thank you some of you for your harsh, unkind but mostly valid points regarding what had happened this morning.

I enjoy the challenges EVE gives, that's why I started to l play it in the first place, this morning however felt unfair hence the outburst and perhaps I had become a bit too complacent.

I've decided to keep my sub going and try again, learn from the mistakes and see where that leads us.

Also, thanks for the heads up about Carrie, her posts are now hidden!




Just Add Water
Sasha Cohenberg
Cohenberg's Ethical Hauling
Freighter Friends
#106 - 2015-06-22 04:36:56 UTC
Another satisfied customer of cohenberg's ethical hauling corp
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#107 - 2015-06-22 04:49:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Finn McCoul wrote:
Today, I was ganked in high sec in a freighter - the freighter some people bought a PLEX for and donated that ISK to the corp so we could buy it.

Don't un-dock what you can't afford to lose.

You insured it too, right, since you knew you couldn't afford to replace it? Right?

You do know that it is a lot cheaper, and safer, to pay others to haul for you? Red Frog is fast, but there are lots of less-expensive freelancers too.

Where were your corpmates to scout and web you?

Finn McCoul wrote:
After that someone else tried to contact me but I refused their chat invite and then 19 ships decided to take out me out.

What on earth were you hauling that was worth 19 ships?

Finn McCoul wrote:
The freighter was lost and so was our Orca which again was bought for by player donations. Over 2 billion in losses which our corp simply can’t afford to replace.

You broke a cardinal rule of EVE, and you got caught. Odd that you blame others and not yourself.

I own 4 Charons and 3 Rhea. My Charons have survived an accidental trip into lowsec when I warped to the wrong gate (and had the warning message disabled), many trips into C5 w-space (lived there), and countless trips through hisec.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#108 - 2015-06-22 05:15:29 UTC
Finn McCoul wrote:
Dear CCP,

After over 2 years of play, I will be cancelling my EVE sub at the end of July.

Today, I was ganked in high sec in a freighter - the freighter some people bought a PLEX for and donated that ISK to the corp so we could buy it.

It started when roughly 3 ships started to intercept me at a gate which kept knocking me of course and in turn prevented me from warping.
I was then asked for 300 mil in ISK for a “pass” which I refused and to be frank I would actually call that a ransom.
After that someone else tried to contact me but I refused their chat invite and then 19 ships decided to take out me out.
The freighter was lost and so was our Orca which again was bought for by player donations. Over 2 billion in losses which our corp simply can’t afford to replace.

If that grief wasn’t enough one of the gankers then decided to join our open recruitment channel to then inform us (if we didn’t already know by this point) we had been ganked and then posted our kill reports to us. We were then informed that I should have indeed bought a “pass”. All this was in high sec on my way to Jita and to quite frank a little creepy.

EVE is demanding, and at times punishing, it’s part of the game but it is also very rewarding. We were hoping to set up POS’s to start moon mining and ice mining - something we’d been looking forward to for some time and building up towards it but with the loss of our only freighter and Orca it now means that our plan is on indefinite hiatus.
Just as we had started to get somewhere we’re pushed to the ground and now we just don’t feel like getting up again.

Concord just isn’t enough and did absolutely nothing. It doesn’t protect you against extortion so where were / are the in game mods? Or better yet why not have Honorary Concord Members who are players protecting players against attacks like this?

People will claim it’s part of “freedom” within the game but where’s my freedom to be able to move from one high sec system to another and not being extorted for ISK?

I enjoy EVE, I bought the Second Decade set, the LE Source book and the LE Art of New Eden books so it’s like having to leave a club you enjoy going to because there is a large group making your time there unpleasant for you so to be honest it’s sad to go but unless we start again from the start, we have no way of moving forward.

Sorry for the moan but really, extorting ISK out of players is really a step too far.

Kind regards
Finn McCoul


Translation: I was dumb, lost lots of stuff and now I'm taking my ball and going home.

Bye. I'd ask for your stuff but you apparently lost it all already.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Finn McCoul
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2015-06-22 05:16:17 UTC
Darth Terona wrote:
I'm sorry to hear that brother.. But two things. And please, I'm not trying to troll

1. I'm pretty sure you can't moon mine in hs, so if you can't defend your freighter, how will you defend a pos?

2. Freighters insurance is excellent! Payout ensures you have enuff isk in pocket to just go buy another. Then all you have to do is 400 or so million to ensure it again...

Also, two years in game and 2billon isk loss breaks you? You have been leading a sheltered life my friend.


Not at all, and I'll try to explain.

I started playing with work colleagues, we mostly ran Level 4 PvE missions to farm LP for the SoE ships. Originally I was flying a Raven but once the Gila redesign came out you could pretty much go AFK and let that ship do all the work for you.
Farming LP lead us to make roughly 70-90 mil per ship for a few hours worth of "work" but we were pulled into a corp and found the ISK we were making was peanuts.

So as for the PvP / political aspect of the game (corps and alliances) I agree I have lead a somewhat sheltered life.

ISK wise I have roughly 5 bil and then maybe twice that in assets, most was made making the SoE ships and running DED sites in wormholes.

The POS's are already set up and have been for days. I was on my way to Jita to pick up another Silo. Even after two years this is my first real time going into nul sec.
This created a new challenge because we were being caught at gates so we found a site which tells you how many kills has been in a particular system so we were using that to plot our route.

We also fitted a few ships so interwarp was possible. We went from a huge number of loses to nothing pretty much overnight.
We also found out you're more likely to get caught in a web bubble if you're moving from gate to gate or station to gate so once entering a system we'd warp to a planet or moon and then onto the Stargate, this help us a number of times getting to the next system as we missed the web bubble(s) completely unless the bubble was placed right on top of the Stargate.

The insurance payout for the freighter was 500 mil so I was going to put the extra 700 mil in there myself and get a new one. The Orca I was going to leave and see if anyone missed it first.

@Kinete Jenius
This is exactly what happened.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#110 - 2015-06-22 07:33:17 UTC
Otso Bakarti wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Otso Bakarti wrote:
...gankers don't pay any price, so if CCP loves them so much, they should be prepared to say "bye" to people who pay real money for accounts, and "hi" to PLEXers. (Maybe they've found a way to pay staff in game time! Oh, well, what staff they have left...new office huh? Must be doing real well with that revenue.)
Just between us, of course. Shhhhh.

Shocked
Or maybe, CCP understand that all PLEX used by plexers was also paid for with real money. Given that PLEX is, in general, more expensive than subscribed accounts, it could be seen as an increase in revenue.
What planet are you from? PLEX is bought with ingame money.

This just shows how much you know about the game, yet you post anyway. The PLEX you buy on the ingame marked where purchased from CCP and put there by other players.

Otso Bakarti wrote:

Ima Wreckyou wrote:
. No idea why everyone is so concerned with CCPs revenue all the time. I think they can handle that on their own they don't need your special advice to survive.
Uh...advice? I gave no one advice. Where did you see me offer advice? The thing about the REVENUE is, no money, no gamee. I guess someone had to tell you that. You're welcome. Oh yes. Inhale! Exhale! Inhale! Exhale!

Since CCP has looked into this and found that players who got ganked are the most likely to stay with the game you should probably start supporting us if you are so concerned with CCPs revenue. If you don't know what I am talking about, make sure you watch this => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y before you post again.

Evil RatKid
Brutus Utama
State War Academy
Caldari State
#111 - 2015-06-22 08:31:02 UTC
Move to Nullsec...become rich.... lose 5 freighters and not be bothered about the isk cost... honestly 2B isnt a big loss....but moving items during burn Amarr is silly... alot of the systems surrounding trade hubs are also camped at this time....

if that doesnt help...

Welcome to Eve :)
Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#112 - 2015-06-22 08:49:31 UTC
Finn McCoul wrote:
Dear CCP,

After over 2 years of play, I will be cancelling my EVE sub at the end of July.

Today, I was ganked in high sec in a freighter - the freighter some people bought a PLEX for and donated that ISK to the corp so we could buy it.

It started when roughly 3 ships started to intercept me at a gate which kept knocking me of course and in turn prevented me from warping.
I was then asked for 300 mil in ISK for a “pass” which I refused and to be frank I would actually call that a ransom.
After that someone else tried to contact me but I refused their chat invite and then 19 ships decided to take out me out.
The freighter was lost and so was our Orca which again was bought for by player donations. Over 2 billion in losses which our corp simply can’t afford to replace.

If that grief wasn’t enough one of the gankers then decided to join our open recruitment channel to then inform us (if we didn’t already know by this point) we had been ganked and then posted our kill reports to us. We were then informed that I should have indeed bought a “pass”. All this was in high sec on my way to Jita and to quite frank a little creepy.

EVE is demanding, and at times punishing, it’s part of the game but it is also very rewarding. We were hoping to set up POS’s to start moon mining and ice mining - something we’d been looking forward to for some time and building up towards it but with the loss of our only freighter and Orca it now means that our plan is on indefinite hiatus.
Just as we had started to get somewhere we’re pushed to the ground and now we just don’t feel like getting up again.

Concord just isn’t enough and did absolutely nothing. It doesn’t protect you against extortion so where were / are the in game mods? Or better yet why not have Honorary Concord Members who are players protecting players against attacks like this?

People will claim it’s part of “freedom” within the game but where’s my freedom to be able to move from one high sec system to another and not being extorted for ISK?

I enjoy EVE, I bought the Second Decade set, the LE Source book and the LE Art of New Eden books so it’s like having to leave a club you enjoy going to because there is a large group making your time there unpleasant for you so to be honest it’s sad to go but unless we start again from the start, we have no way of moving forward.

Sorry for the moan but really, extorting ISK out of players is really a step too far.

Kind regards
Finn McCoul


I guess this is/was a legit candidate for HTFU!
So that's exactly what you should do...

Fly safe*R* o7

Fornicate The Constabulary !
Nami Kumamato
Perkone
Caldari State
#113 - 2015-06-22 08:51:22 UTC
Livonia Velorea wrote:
and if you are any good at exploration, chances are you wouldn't want to run missions. Any avid explorer will make several billion each week.


That I can confirm.
Still broke as fak tho...

Fornicate The Constabulary !
Beautiful Frelcia
Whale Girth
#114 - 2015-06-22 09:05:34 UTC
hahahaha


Lets make a deal.
I can explain game basics to you so you can stop being bad. Free of charge. Just because i have a good day and not every goon is awlays bad.

On the side note, moon mining? in high security space?
Beta Maoye
#115 - 2015-06-22 10:18:31 UTC
I assume conservation of momentum is applied to ship bumping. The mass of Charon is 960 million kg and Talos is 15 million kg. Charon is 64 times heavier than Talos. If Charon is at rest, it will require Talos to collide at least at 64m/s to move Charon just a little bit at 1m/s. Even if Talos collides at much higher speed of 640m/s, Charon at most will be moved at 10m/s. It seems to me that a BC class like Talos shouldn't be able to bump Charon off course for gating or warpinig. Theoretically it should need a capital class ship with similar mass to bump freighter effectively.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#116 - 2015-06-22 10:31:11 UTC
With the ganking being stupidly easy and free, every player who failed at everything else in eve is currently doing it.

Well, eve is going to lose a lot of subs until ganks become at least non-free.
flakeys
Doomheim
#117 - 2015-06-22 10:48:53 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Finn McCoul wrote:


Sorry for the moan but really, extorting ISK out of players is really a step too far.

Kind regards
Finn McCoul



Then we should have closed the servers somewhere around 2004 when randsoming was a much more common thing then it is these days.


Look mate i can understand that you have some ''problem'' with being ganked , especially if it is with corp assets BUT you where flying a freighter through a system wich has been known for being a high ganking system for well over 2 years and all that during a weekend wich has been reported by several eve news sites and the eve forums for being a high freighter ganking weekend.

So in short , both randsoming and empire ganking was there before you joined the game.You are doing the same thing as people who buy a house near an airport because the houses are cheaper there and then after a few years start complaining about the noise that airport makes and how the government should do something about it.

And no i am not an empire ganker myself , quite the opposite actually.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Azda Ja
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2015-06-22 10:50:19 UTC
Orca Platypus wrote:
With the ganking being stupidly easy and free, every player who failed at everything else in eve is currently doing it.

Well, eve is going to lose a lot of subs until ganks become at least non-free.


Sigh.

Ima Wreckyou wrote:
If you don't know what I am talking about, make sure you watch this => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y before you post again.


Grrr.
Orca Platypus
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2015-06-22 11:09:35 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
Orca Platypus wrote:
With the ganking being stupidly easy and free, every player who failed at everything else in eve is currently doing it.

Well, eve is going to lose a lot of subs until ganks become at least non-free.


Sigh.

Ima Wreckyou wrote:
If you don't know what I am talking about, make sure you watch this => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A92Ge2S8M1Y before you post again.




Talk stupid all you want, I were ganked, and I quit for 2 long years before even touching eve again.
For me, losing ships is a major problem. Even despite VERY loaded wallet. Even T1 frigs. Enough to quit for month or two every time it happens.

Yes, I have figured a way to play without ever losing ships. Yes, that costed me a lot of gameplay - I can't do half the things I want to do because of ganking. For every nulltard (which I were forced to become if I wanted to avoid losing ships ever) this is hardly a problem, but with ganking being so easy and so free, hisec is literally LITTERED with gankturd. When I have to haul things in hisec there are wrecks at every second gate. Checking the killmails for the wreck owners you usually see crapload of free ships - catalysts. From what I see, ganking has completely overran every form of hisec life.

I still do not say "stop ganking", I say "make ganking not free and not stupidly easy". Then we at least will be able to respect that playstyle, while now it is just a fallback for failures who are incapable of anything else.
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#120 - 2015-06-22 11:16:40 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
Harrison Tato wrote:
Tempted to think this is a CODE alt


Why oh why do i think the same?

As an occasional after more than a year i own a freighter and an orca. And a Kronos and stuff...
OP knows where to whine, but was not aware, that ganks happen in hisec?

More likely another pathetic code propaganda.

PS:
Still: Bumping mechanics ARE broken:

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."