Player Features and Ideas Discussion

nope. the farmer is farming the "environment", not the pvper.


it did work fine, the majority of work wasnt in killing the ratter but in finding, probing, dscanning and tackling him. That was fine. If he let him catch after all the defensive and home advantage, he should die. Now its impossible, as I and others explained to people of your kind, you need heavy gear for it you basically cant field in these regions, rendering PvEers completely immune vs. solo roamers. The only way is a big gang or a cyno alt camping your system.


You missed the memo. I'm basically saying that I need a quality of a ship to gank ratters, that I cant realistically field in that environment.

You're not alone.

In my opinion, this issue mainly stretches to guristas/serpentis content, with sleepers/angels/drones/bloods not killing yur lock or lockrange, so you can work around that. The killer ECM and weirdly stacking damps by NPCs though are driving me buttmad. If you look at someone in a site -jammed- for a minute and he eventually warps out when returning to his keyboard cause you're still jammed by rats, then it's cringeworthy. Same for serpentis if your *generic pirate cruiser* is damped to 150m lockrange.

Do you have a main you could post this withm would make it seem more then a whiny highsec carebear complaining about pvp.

Other than the hassle of having all the rats go away when I want to shoot them, it seems just as good to me. Especially as I won't be shooting rats in the face of aggression from other players.

quote=Mike Voidstar]
That is the most inane response ever. Why not petition to have PvP ships immune to return fire from the PvE guy. After all, he's there for the environment, not you. /quote]

no, its not insane, its real. You are there for rats, you spawn them, so you should eat most damage from them, all I'm asking for is for rats not preventing PvP encounters inside sites and not protecting the ratter.


its not that much about logics or lore, its about gameplay rules and balance.
If the requirement for something is unrealistic to meet, it can be called as "broken". So is the profession of solo roams after ratters.


yes and this is why the game is broken. since when is the amoung of risk a valid argument for anything in eve?
I can gank a jumpfreighter with a couple of catalysts, virtually not risking anything compared to a value of a JF.
You can farm mountains of ISK without risking virtually anything if you do it right (which is not really hard). Hell, you can even do it in a cheap fully insured battleship, risking only 2-3 ratting payout ticks if at all. If the hunter dares to roam hostile space in a recon ship, he's risking way more than that.


Thats exactly why it worked, it simply wasnt worth enough camping you, so you was able to move in hostile area at all. Bring a T3 and they wont allow you to hunt, they will try to camp and bait you constantly for teh lulz of shiny KM. A kill on a cheap ship like recon or bomber simply wasnt rewarding enough for defenders to have much of effort fighting you off. This is primary reason why you could do it at all.
Grab a T3 and go hunt in deklein or any other heavily populated ratting region, see what happens.


no, what I'm asking for are realistic chances, not "you better be roaming in a battleship, trololol".


T1 frig is countered by a single sabre.
Never head of people doing that in a T1 frigate anyways.
If a dude in a T1 frigate would be able to spread any kind of terror on ratters, well, then you are just terrible.
Price isnt even that important to me, more drastic is the fact is that a chance of a shiny expensive kill for the foe wont allow you to move realistically safe in hostile areas. First report in intel channel will spawn gatecamps and what not. This is why noone is doing it. this is why the game is unbalanced right now, the required tool for the job is currently not realistic. This is why a huge pvp profession is dead and many people stopped playing or logging in much.

Yeah, but it stops the damage for a short period. It doesn't remove it.

It will come back, and my suggestion is that returning NPCs auto aggro

Where would mission rats go? Now you have outstanding missions clogging up the system. Or GM petition rushes after the what, week, they are allowed to stay active. And there would be petitions for resets to actually complete the mission. Unless CCP removes standing for killing a mission but not completing it.


CCP only has 2 pve modes (well 3 I guess with incursions technically)....wh's and the rest. this change would apply to the rest (null, low, empire). empire, low sec level 5's and pirate agent missions I'd predict some petition spamming real fast.

Remember this works for belt rats as when they get bored if you can't kill them fast enough they just warp off to some other belt. I have chased down the banged up BS I could not kill easy when low sp player in 0.0 in the next belt. A mission rat and site as well would be gone forever. What happens when that rat is the trigger? the trigger that is never activated.

Also where is the value of enforcing tackle fits for all ships. Even in pvp not all ships run tackle. Even at the sub BS levels. In the falcon threads for example I will often say run a sniper to kill or scare them off. By the time you are done boosting lock range and range of weapons....often times there is no room for tackle. Well that and tackle at that point is useless anyway since you are operating waaaay the hell out.


Or put another way not everyone brawls in this game. I did not train caldari BS 5 to reach 70 km optimal on AM/CNAM to rush in and tackle targets. I did it to plink away at 70 ish.

Unless also throwing some uber point range bonuses to all ships in game....you in essence would be wiping a play style off the server real fast.

Well, you could always consider it like a invulnerability timer for NPCs, much like with a POS.
If a PVP weapons timer is seen, NPCs warp out and the structures go invulnerable until the weapons timer runs up.
I mean, yeah, it kills immersion, but there are many changes to Eve, for the sake of balance, that have killed immersion in that related field.

One that has always existed is that mission sites suddenly disappear after completion, and you can warp to BMs without having to go back into the mission.
Heck, you can warp in, kill the primary target, BM, turn in mission, then warp to BM and suddenly all the other NPCs are gone...

So, immersion isn't as high a priority when it comes to balance.

[quoe=Mike Voidstar]Rats are part of the environment. [/quote]

yes and I liked them as part of the environment pre-Retribution.


[quoe=Mike Voidstar]
I am aware it's not about lore. It's about quick easy kills at no risk to yourself. You are never at risk doing this because you don't want to put any assets in space. Your entire complaint is that you don't want to have to bring a sufficiently strong ship to kill the blingy ships of others.[/quote]

these kills were never quick and easy but required a lot of dedication and were time consuming. stop lying.



never said they are in worthless ships, you are lying again.
I am complaining not solely about expensive ships I need for the job but also, you should read what I write and stop dropping parts you dont like.



Just explaining the reasons why the profession is dead and tools required for the job are unrealistic over the top.



nope, a plated proteus is too slow for catching anything - a totally futile idea. Other T3 wont even get enough DPS.
Even in a nano cruiser it's already not an easy task to tackle someone in a site, I see you have no idea what you are talking about and probably never tried to.
My target doesnt need to fit any e-war by itself, NPC already doing that.
Yes, a ship which can tank all the rats and the ratter in a site is simply too slow and sluggish to even get there and find/catch a target, thats what I'm saying all the time.


yes, true. These ships have mostly drones, which would rip a T1 frigate apart within seconds.. so whats your point?
Neuting out a boat and getting it finished by rats is viable tactic, why not? Why is that stupid? Neuts are powerful weapon if applied in a proper way. Also a plated pilgrim, you are talking about, is all but fast and agile for the job, so not very survivable in said hostile environment and not very dangerous for an aware ratter. I always tip my hat to people who managed to score a kill with a pilgrim.
Like explained lots of times already, the lions share of getting these kills was the time spent on hunting itself vs. x intel tools stacked against you + all hostiles around willing to hunt and camp you. It was hard enough but still worthwhile doing, nowadays the balance is totally skewed and everyone gave up the profession - imbalance is obvious.

no, the advantage wasnt that stupudly overwhelming, you had all intel and all people around you at your disposal. if you were careless enough still to get caught with a pve maxed fit, you deserved a loss. Properly fitted ships against a paper bag ship survived as nbd.
In the mean time various game changes reduced the target pool for thin attacker ships like bombers even more, there are MJD for easy escape (unless someone bothered fitting a scram which also slims the chance for a kill), marauders with bastion are no way a valid target anymore for a solo duder and then like 50% of all people are ratting in fast T3 or ishtars, which are no target either - thus, all you can kill with a bomber or a recon is poorly fitted fully insurable T1 BS and maybe a poorly fitted battlecruiser, which is far from out of scale risk-wise like you are trying to tell us. Best thing you could kill solo would be a poorly fitted faction battleship but thats ok reward for all the time and effort you have to spend on it, vs. enemy intel and enemy blob, where you are typically hunting.
The environment which protects you from other players or requires you to field impossible or unviable ships is overwhelmingly stupid and imbalanced, that is.




I'm aware about these rules, they are the reason this thread exists, because they are broken and deny or at least render whole profession of solo stealthy hunting and guerilla warfare unviable - in other words its dead.