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[Duality] Sovereignty Playtest Competition

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CCP Masterplan
C C P
C C P Alliance
#161 - 2015-06-21 13:08:19 UTC
BlitZ Kotare wrote:
The plexes need some way to tell each other apart. Often they even spawn in very similar areas so giving them some kind of code to differentiate them from each other is really necessary.

Yes, we're planning to add something like that - most likely similar to the way scan sigs work. Probably a three-character alphanumeric code should be unique enough for each system. If you have preferences for avoiding very wide overview columns, feel free to post suggestions on how you think they could be best named.

Gabriel Karade wrote:
Just for info; when you pop the nodes associated with the IHub, it (the IHub) just disappears - no big badda boom :/

I know TCUs were exploding plenty. I'll have a check for IHubs and see what is up there. What is the fun of going to all that effort without a satisfying explosion at the end :)

Gabriel Karade wrote:
kiu Nakamura wrote:
Gabriel Karade wrote:
Q: I drop an Ihub, it appears as 'Concord' = I have to Entosis my own Ihub?? Sad


In the current system you need to anchor and then online stuff. In the new system you throw it in space and entosis it. Not that different?

I guess so, just was unexpected at the time.

Edit: Terrible grid-fu at the time too; was sat on the Ihub and couldn't lock it, nor see what was happening, we only figured out too late.

Ah well, if this is the design intent - noted (but there should probably be something in the description about having to Entosis it)

Having newly-launched IHubs/TCUs owned by an NPC is intended. You should only be deploying those structures once you've got the area under control. Getting a TCU down shouldn't be a matter of who can spam Anchor the fastest. (We'll probably change it from CONCORD though, as that doesn't quite fit thematically as they don't really have much presence in alliance sov matters)

I'm not sure if the structures are currently snapping to the grid centers when launched. The intention is that they will always jump to the closest grid center that is currently unoccupied, to avoid overlapping/bumping issues.

Ruune en Gravonere wrote:
Could mail notifications of sov attacks go out across the whole alliance? Most sov is held by holding corps with a few alts in so... or will it show on everyones sov dashboard?

It would be really great to see 'real' data instead of fake data to try to get a feel for what that will be giving us

Hooking up real data on the sov dashboard is one of the next priority tasks. That should give you a better idea of what is happening and where.

"This one time, on patch day..."

@ccp_masterplan  |  Team Five-0: Rewriting the law

Dorijan
W-Space IT Department
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#162 - 2015-06-21 13:27:34 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:

Hooking up real data on the sov dashboard is one of the next priority tasks. That should give you a better idea of what is happening and where.


This whole thing needs to come with API/CREST endpoints from the beginning. Tracking all of this in-game, exporting the data to external tools is just going to be annoying and will make people not want to deal with it.

What are your plans in this regard?
BlitZ Kotare
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#163 - 2015-06-21 13:29:25 UTC
As far as the complex nodes, at a minimum the 3 character semi-random naming would be sufficient. If you're going to keep them as "celestial beacons" they need their own overview category so they don't overlap with cynos, so we can exclude them from pvp overviews but have them present on navigation ones. Basically on general PVP overviews we want everything that's not a hostile ship to be kept off of them, with cynos and gates being some of the only exceptions. In some of these systems on duality the entire overview is filling up with nothing but plexes, and navigating the spam is tedious.

One of the guys in our fleet had the idea that they should spawn as combat anoms, which would move them to the scanner instead. That might be another option?

Also, some of the capture timers seem to be rotating backwards. Or at least they're not consistent. Some of the TCU and iHub reinforcement cycles are green, some are white. Some rotate counter-clockwise, some clockwise. For the entosising of command nodes themselves they seem to always be green and go clockwise. Green > white imo, the white blends into too many other labels in the UI that cause issues seeing what stage the timer is at. We'd also pretty unanimously like a digital timer (maybe by mousing over the module or in space next to the rotating bit) so that we clearly know how much time is left. A rotating thing in space isn't very specific.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#164 - 2015-06-21 14:23:26 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
BlitZ Kotare wrote:
The plexes need some way to tell each other apart. Often they even spawn in very similar areas so giving them some kind of code to differentiate them from each other is really necessary.

Yes, we're planning to add something like that - most likely similar to the way scan sigs work. Probably a three-character alphanumeric code should be unique enough for each system. If you have preferences for avoiding very wide overview columns, feel free to post suggestions on how you think they could be best named.

How about just one letter and one number? Like A1, E5, or Z8. I doubt you would ever get more than 260 sites in one system, so you can insure there are no repeats. Repeating a name in a different solar system is OK, as the overview does not show what is in another solar system. You may even be able to make the letter be the same for all sites associated with a given capture event.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#165 - 2015-06-21 15:24:38 UTC
Here's the latest list of reinforcement timers:
Exit Time    Solar System    Structure    Owning Alliance    Defense Multiplier
Ongoing    ZQ-Z3Y    TCU Defense    Eurasia Alliance    0.166666667
Ongoing    ZQ-Z3Y    IHub Defense    Eurasia Alliance    0.166666667
Ongoing    3GXF-U    IHub Defense    Suddenly Spaceships.    0.222222222
Ongoing    J6QB-P    TCU Defense    Oceania Alliance    0.454545455
Ongoing    J6QB-P    IHub Defense    Oceania Alliance    0.454545455
Ongoing    J6QB-P    Station Defense    Oceania Alliance    0.454545455
Ongoing    2V-CS5    IHub Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.188679245
Ongoing    2V-CS5    Station Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.188679245
Ongoing    2V-CS5    TCU Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.188679245
Ongoing    TXJ-II    IHub Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.166666667
Ongoing    H9-J8N    IHub Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.166666667
Ongoing    H9-J8N    Station Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.166666667
Ongoing    GA9P-0    Station Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.166666667
Ongoing    TXJ-II    Station Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.166666667
Ongoing    TXJ-II    TCU Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.166666667
Ongoing    GA9P-0    TCU Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.166666667
Ongoing    GA9P-0    IHub Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.166666667
Ongoing    H9-J8N    TCU Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.166666667
Ongoing    3GXF-U    TCU Defense    Suddenly Spaceships.    0.222222222
Ongoing    C1-HAB    IHub Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.175438596
Ongoing    C1-HAB    TCU Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.175438596
Ongoing    C1-HAB    Station Defense    Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork    0.175438596
Ongoing    MVCJ-E    TCU Defense    Q Alliance    0.188679245
2015.06.21 16:07    MH9C-S    Station Freeport    Freeport    1
2015.06.21 16:50    YQB-22    Station Freeport    Freeport    1
2015.06.21 17:27    K1I1-J    Station Freeport    Freeport    1
2015.06.21 18:56    IS-R7P    TCU Defense    Praetorian Directorate    0.166666667
2015.06.21 19:05    IS-R7P    Station Defense    Praetorian Directorate    0.166666667
2015.06.21 19:05    BR-N97    TCU Defense    Praetorian Directorate    0.166666667
2015.06.21 19:14    LF-2KP    Station Freeport    Freeport    1
2015.06.21 19:16    IS-R7P    IHub Defense    Praetorian Directorate    0.166666667
2015.06.21 19:45    3KB-J0    Station Defense    I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth    0.166666667
2015.06.21 20:00    G-AOTH    Station Freeport    Freeport    1
2015.06.21 21:56    T-RPFU    TCU Defense    Pandemic Legion    0.23255814
2015.06.21 22:02    F-YH5B    IHub Defense    Suddenly Spaceships.    0.166666667
2015.06.21 23:06    F-YH5B    Station Defense    Suddenly Spaceships.    0.166666667
2015.06.21 23:18    F-YH5B    TCU Defense    Suddenly Spaceships.    0.166666667
2015.06.21 23:37    8P9-BM    Station Defense    Suddenly Spaceships.    0.175438596
2015.06.22 00:32    8P9-BM    IHub Defense    Suddenly Spaceships.    0.175438596
2015.06.22 00:59    3D-CQU    IHub Defense    Brave Collective    0.212765957
2015.06.22 01:25    8P9-BM    TCU Defense    Suddenly Spaceships.    0.175438596
2015.06.22 01:34    VKI-T7    TCU Defense    Brave Collective    0.212765957
2015.06.22 01:35    YWS0-Z    Station Defense    Brave Collective    0.178571429
2015.06.22 01:38    YWS0-Z    IHub Defense    Brave Collective    0.178571429
2015.06.22 01:39    YWS0-Z    TCU Defense    Brave Collective    0.178571429
2015.06.22 02:17    QBL-BV    TCU Defense    Oceania Alliance    0.166666667
2015.06.22 02:46    D-GTMI    Station Freeport    Freeport    1
2015.06.22 03:00    F-DTOO    Station Freeport    Freeport    1
2015.06.22 03:13    QBL-BV    Station Defense    Oceania Alliance    0.166666667
2015.06.22 03:25    QBL-BV    IHub Defense    Oceania Alliance    0.166666667
2015.06.22 05:48    9UY4-H    Station Freeport    Freeport    1
2015.06.22 06:50    PI5-39    Station Freeport    Freeport    1
2015.06.22 08:07    GN7-XY    Station Freeport    Freeport    1
2015.06.22 10:43    5KG-PY    Station Freeport    Freeport    1
2015.06.22 10:46    AY-24I    IHub Defense    Q Alliance    0.23255814
2015.06.22 11:32    I7S-1S    Station Freeport    Freeport    1
2015.06.22 12:08    ZQ-Z3Y    Station Freeport    Freeport    1

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

Ruune en Gravonere
Running with Dogs
Northern Coalition.
#166 - 2015-06-21 16:14:49 UTC
any news on being able to install upgrades in ihubs? and just to double check that cyno jam or jump bridge is a choice?
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#167 - 2015-06-21 16:31:38 UTC
Ruune en Gravonere wrote:
any news on being able to install upgrades in ihubs? and just to double check that cyno jam or jump bridge is a choice?

No progress on that will be made until normal working hours next week.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie

SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#168 - 2015-06-21 16:38:44 UTC
Tappits wrote:
Its no more imbalanced than 100isk Carriers and Dreads.
Its in fact not imbalanced at all as every one has access to them.

Wow, you have no clue how balancing works do you?

Tappits wrote:
Maybe you would like then to unseed the systems and just copy over assets from TQ to make it fare?
We will still have access to AT ships dreads slowcats and supers and you can run eagles for everything?

I never said that or anything like that and you know it.

Tappits wrote:
I also think when we we blocked you in your station last night we used Full TQ roaming setups that we use all the time and not 50 AT ships so i have no idea what your on about.

I have been on the Duality a good portion of every day since the start of this thing and when it comes to any confrontation at a node, it has been nothing but alliance tournament ships. Only at the VERY end of last night, when it was obvious PL was going to win with the help of Spectre did you guys ditch the AT ships. You switched over to Bhargest to sit on each node so you had the range to hit out to 250km. On our station you had a **** ton of super capitals. We were vastly outnumbered and outgunned. I get that. But please don't lie your ass off saying you have not been using AT ships. You guys have been using them exclusively since the beginning for this contest.
Jayne Fillon
#169 - 2015-06-21 16:51:48 UTC
I don't understand the complaint about AT ships, they are equally accessible to all.

Also, endless capitals are way worse than a couple of powerful cruisers and frigates. Way worse.

Regardless, in the end this isn't about balancing, it's about testing the sov.

You either use what's good because it's good and win, or fly inferior ships and lose.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

kiu Nakamura
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#170 - 2015-06-21 17:07:23 UTC
Jayne Fillon wrote:
Regardless, in the end this isn't about balancing, it's about testing the sov.


That would have been correct if the thing would have been sold as a test. But it is a competition for some reason. And everyone in eve already knows how it will end. PL will win and smug about having their name on the module for the next years.

It is really disappointing to see how CCP failed on setting this up (even though they put so much work in it, it is appreciated), the winner seems to be determined by who-piled-the-most-super-assets-as-their-alliance-exists-since-the-stone-age.


Don Pera Saissore
#171 - 2015-06-21 17:09:05 UTC
Jayne Fillon wrote:
I don't understand the complaint about AT ships, they are equally accessible to all.


Unless you lack the skills for them...
Jayne Fillon
#172 - 2015-06-21 17:13:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayne Fillon
kiu Nakamura wrote:
Jayne Fillon wrote:
Regardless, in the end this isn't about balancing, it's about testing the sov.


That would have been correct if the thing would have been sold as a test. But it is a competition for some reason. And everyone in eve already knows how it will end. PL will win and smug about having their name on the module for the next years.

It is really disappointing to see how CCP failed on setting this up (even though they put so much work in it, it is appreciated), the winner seems to be determined by who-piled-the-most-super-assets-as-their-alliance-exists-since-the-stone-age.
The alliance tournament is a competition, and it's held on TQ.
The wargame is a test, run on Duality... a test server.

I agree about the supers thing, but really, supers aren't nearly as valuable in this new system.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

Jayne Fillon
#173 - 2015-06-21 17:16:35 UTC
Don Pera Saissore wrote:
Jayne Fillon wrote:
I don't understand the complaint about AT ships, they are equally accessible to all.

Unless you lack the skills for them...

The same could be said for any ship, T1, T2, Faction, or AT. Should we round down to the lowest common denominator?

Of course skillpoints are a factor.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

Don Pera Saissore
#174 - 2015-06-21 17:30:34 UTC
Yes t1 ships only.

I'm kidding, i don't care what rules you impose, this test is a joke.
kiu Nakamura
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#175 - 2015-06-21 17:33:24 UTC
kiu Nakamura wrote:
That would have been correct if the thing would have been sold as a test. But it is a competition for some reason.


Jayne Fillon wrote:
The wargame is a test, run on Duality... a test server.


Maybe you take a look at this forum post title. "sovereignity playtest COMPETITION". It was sold by CCP as a competition not as a Sisi Masstest.

Jayne Fillon wrote:
I agree about the supers thing, but really, supers aren't nearly as valuable in this new system.


Have you been on Duality? Supers are OP killing everyone.

Jayne Fillon
#176 - 2015-06-21 17:45:13 UTC
Quote:
Jayne Fillon wrote:
I agree about the supers thing, but really, supers aren't nearly as valuable in this new system.

Have you been on Duality? Supers are OP killing everyone.

After two hours of fighting over command nodes all across the constellation, not a single super was used to freeport 9UY.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#177 - 2015-06-21 18:29:04 UTC
Jayne Fillon wrote:
Don Pera Saissore wrote:
Jayne Fillon wrote:
I don't understand the complaint about AT ships, they are equally accessible to all.

Unless you lack the skills for them...

The same could be said for any ship, T1, T2, Faction, or AT. Should we round down to the lowest common denominator?

Of course skillpoints are a factor.

Show me which T1 or T2 cruiser that functions as a Gila and Falcon rolled into one ship. Proclaiming that a ship being available to all and free for a competition means it is balanced is asinine. AT ships are over powered and exist on TQ only because they are ultra rare and insanely expensive. The entire environment is saturated with completely unrealistic things that are impossible on TQ now and even after the new sov system happens.

But the truth is there is other factors working against us. We have FC's who insist we form up capitals to brawl PL and Spectre on our undock during the node capture phase. Effectively accomplishing nothing but to entertain Spectre while PL capture the nodes. Turns out he is Spectre FC working with PL on their comms to keep us busy while they win nodes. gg And factor in people who can't grasp the idea that during the node capture phase you can no longer form one fleet of the biggest ships possible and brawl in one system on one grid no matter how many times it is explained to them it wont work. Again, gg.

The good news is those of us who actually care about this new sov system and want to bug hunt and test to make sure it is the best it can be are going to completely ignore the spy fc's you guys send over to 'help us' and do something completely different. Things like not purposely lose objectives. Purposely welp fleets to entertain the enemy. Yell at fleet members who are actually doing things the right way because they wont form up a dread and smash their face into a titans fist on the undock when there is nodes to be capture instead.

My entire point is this competition and test of the new sov system is broken due to a couple oversights with AT ships and even 100 ISK endless capitals. Factor in the sheer amount of supers moved down into the pocket, it is impossible to get any kind of real reading to see if things need to be adjusted before this hits TQ.

I would say please stop sending over spies to try and FC us to lose on purpose, but we have far too many people willing to x up with a capital and welp into titans during the node phases. Reminds me of jingling keys in front of Chris Griffin on Family Guy. Ugh
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#178 - 2015-06-21 19:22:11 UTC
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
[Turns out he is Spectre FC working with PL on their comms to keep us busy while they win nodes. gg And factor in people who can't grasp the idea that during the node capture phase you can no longer form one fleet of the biggest ships possible and brawl in one system on one grid no matter how many times it is explained to them it wont work. Again, gg.

Seems like a thing that could happen on TQ TBH you know ententes not killing each other for a common goal?

SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
[The entire environment is saturated with completely unrealistic things that are impossible on TQ now and even after the new sov system happens.

PL were in Our normal TQ macs when we did your station last night what’s really unrealistic is brave running round in Faction BS and dreads.
PL has not done anything that technically we could not do on TQ so far
We have AT ships we have dreads carriers and supers on TQ,

SilentAsTheGrave wrote:

I would say please stop sending over spies to try and FC us to lose on purpose

That’s some super tinfoil right there…
So to make it fare for you we are only going to come in things we OWN on TQ tonight when we take your station… just to make it fare for us can you just come in a tengu/eagle fleet like you have on TQ also.
SilentAsTheGrave
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2015-06-21 19:41:47 UTC  |  Edited by: SilentAsTheGrave
Tappits wrote:
PL has not done anything that technically we could not do on TQ so far

That's bullshit.

There is only 50 Chameleons that exist in the game. You guys were bring 60-70 at once and everyone knows PL does not own all 50 on TQ, much less 20 more that do not exist. Same deal with the rest of AT ships.

But I suspect that no matter how many of these facts are presented to you; the lies will continue to be vomited from your mouth.
Traxev
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#180 - 2015-06-21 20:10:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Traxev
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:
Tappits wrote:
PL has not done anything that technically we could not do on TQ so far

That's bullshit.

There is only 50 Chameleons that exist in the game. You guys were bring 60-70 at once and everyone knows PL does not own all 50 on TQ, much less 20 more that do not exist. Same deal with the rest of AT ships.

But I suspect that no matter how many of these facts are presented to you; the lies will continue to be vomited from your mouth.


Its funny when you call bullshit then spew some more of it from your mouth. I was on the fleet all of last night and we barely had 40ish people in fleet. (which was a machariel fleet that included people bringing dreads, carriers, supers, titans, a hyena or two, so please explain how we brought 60-70 of them at once.

Also please explain to me why you think you should be able to undock endless amounts of orthruses to go sov grind then complain about us using AT ships. When was the last time BNI ran an orthrus fleet? When was the last time BNI could vomit them out of the station with no regards to their cost or availability?