These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Need help with a 2k Passive Rattler for C4's Please
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Iyokus Patrouette
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-06-19 06:40:41 UTC
Decripid Sano wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH
looking for this? C4 / C3 Passive Rattlesnake Site Running

the fact that a rattlesnake CAN do it is really not in question here.
what is, is that it SHOULD do it.


My intentions are to do C3s then C4s, not C5s (that's mostly for Capitals) and I honestly believe that Rattlers (if not in a Corp) are more safer than Marauders cause of Bastion (it's a double-edge sword).

And that sinister fella Trickey Fiend I think his name was showed the kill mail with just 5 ships taking down a Paladin, JUST 5 and those ships were mostly AF's & T3D's. You think Just 5 ships could've taken down 2 RR Rattlers, I seriously doubt it unless the pilots were AFKing.


Challenge accepted. you get into those 2 RR Rattlesnakes and we'll come in 5 ships nothing larger than a Destroyer. Twisted

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#62 - 2015-06-19 11:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Decripid Sano
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:
Decripid Sano wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH
looking for this? C4 / C3 Passive Rattlesnake Site Running

the fact that a rattlesnake CAN do it is really not in question here.
what is, is that it SHOULD do it.


My intentions are to do C3s then C4s, not C5s (that's mostly for Capitals) and I honestly believe that Rattlers (if not in a Corp) are more safer than Marauders cause of Bastion (it's a double-edge sword).

And that sinister fella Trickey Fiend I think his name was showed the kill mail with just 5 ships taking down a Paladin, JUST 5 and those ships were mostly AF's & T3D's. You think Just 5 ships could've taken down 2 RR Rattlers, I seriously doubt it unless the pilots were AFKing.


Challenge accepted. you get into those 2 RR Rattlesnakes and we'll come in 5 ships nothing larger than a Destroyer. Twisted


Although I can feel the urge to troll rising, I must resist and face facts. Yes if it was me using 2 RR Rattlers you most likely would kill me, but it would mostly be due to pilot error on my part from my lack of experience, neglecting the use of proper tactics and not being able to fully utilize the Rattlers capabilities. But if it was from an experience veteran who knows what he's doing, then you and your gang of 5, will die.

I learn best from trial & error so I'm gonna get killed a lot, but I'll get there sooner or later. For now I'm gonna hold off on using anything other than RR Domis. Once I master the Domis, i'll move onto the Rattlers. So if you still wanna pick a fight with me you're gonna have to do it with my 2 RR Domis along with the horde of Hobbies they're be carrying.
Sleepaz Den
Artificial Memories
#63 - 2015-06-19 12:00:58 UTC
Decripid Sano wrote:
Although I can feel the urge to troll rising, I must resist and face facts. Yes if it was me using 2 RR Rattlers you most likely would kill me, but it would mostly be due to pilot error on my part from my lack of experience, neglecting the use of proper tactics and not being able to fully utilize the Rattlers capabilities. But if it was from an experience veteran who knows what he's doing, then you and your gang of 5, will die.

I learn best from trial & error so I'm gonna get killed a lot, but I'll get there sooner or later. For now I'm gonna hold off on using anything other than RR Domis. Once I master the Domis, i'll move onto the Rattlers. So if you still wanna pick a fight with me you're gonna have to do it with my 2 RR Domis along with the horde of Hobbies they're be carrying.


I made quite some penny ganking RR-Domis with a 100mn tengu, but unless you bump them apart, good luck cid. Those AFs/T3Ds would be really dangerous if praetors/Berzerkers wouldn't pop them in two-three volleys.
Nash MacAllister
Air
The Initiative.
#64 - 2015-06-19 14:31:26 UTC
TBH, a combination of 7 RR (~800) and DPS (~1400 dps) rattlers that hit out to 120km + Basi is the cats meow for FAST C4 site running. Warp to zero, kill everything, rinse and repeat. FB and SIS are the sweet spots, stick to them as much as you can. But it can be done with 2 RR Rattler without much issue. But 7 + Logi requires a hell of a lot more fleet to engage if someone wants to jump you. I think it has happened to us like twice in the past 2 years....

However, one additional consideration in the recent past, which greatly effects the validity of "past experience", is the addition of the additional statics to C4. They have become swiss cheese and very difficult to monitor all access without several scouts, greatly increasing the danger to any ships running sites. However, Rattlers and Domi are still commonplace findings...

Yeah you can do it with Domi. Yeah you can do it with Marauder. There are more ships/combs that work fine as well including the old-fashioned RR HML Tengu ball. But you asked about Rattlers, and the answer is yes, they work great.

Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...
MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#65 - 2015-06-19 15:10:30 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH
looking for this? C4 / C3 Passive Rattlesnake Site Running

the fact that a rattlesnake CAN do it is really not in question here.
what is, is that it SHOULD do it.


Rattlers are an acceptable alternative for C4's and C5/6's for people who can't fly a marauder yet. The BS V skill takes awhile to train, and some people have more drone skills than proper T2 large gun skills.

Of course, once you can fly a marauder, they are objectively better. They also cost a bit more per unit, but that's made up for by how much faster/more effective they are.

The fact about rattlers is that in lower-incoming-DPS sites they can pump out good DPS, but when you start getting sites with heavy DPS AND RR the rattler has to refit its lows for tank, and then can end up in a situation where it loses drones faster than it clears the site, or at least where 90% of the DPS is mitigated by RR.

I see that as a primary concern in the rattler vs marauder debate, and it's what makes a Paladin objectively better than a rattlesnake, in C4/5/6 WH ratting.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.
Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#66 - 2015-06-20 00:35:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Decripid Sano
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Keith Planck wrote:
COUGH COUGH COUGH COUGH
looking for this? C4 / C3 Passive Rattlesnake Site Running

the fact that a rattlesnake CAN do it is really not in question here.
what is, is that it SHOULD do it.


Rattlers are an acceptable alternative for C4's and C5/6's for people who can't fly a marauder yet. The BS V skill takes awhile to train, and some people have more drone skills than proper T2 large gun skills.

Of course, once you can fly a marauder, they are objectively better. They also cost a bit more per unit, but that's made up for by how much faster/more effective they are.

The fact about rattlers is that in lower-incoming-DPS sites they can pump out good DPS, but when you start getting sites with heavy DPS AND RR the rattler has to refit its lows for tank, and then can end up in a situation where it loses drones faster than it clears the site, or at least where 90% of the DPS is mitigated by RR.

I see that as a primary concern in the rattler vs marauder debate, and it's what makes a Paladin objectively better than a rattlesnake, in C4/5/6 WH ratting.


I'm starting to feel the sting of jealousy surging within me every time I hear the word "Marauder' since my 6 toons are nowhere near being able to train for one since I practically ignored all gunnery related skills and just focused on RR, tank, support and drone skills since the forums bled daily about how OP drones were at that time (and yes I like OP stuff). I'm just now turning my attention into training missiles for the Rattlers and from there, I'll probably head straight for the Golem, so we're talking about another 8 months before I can even think about climbing into a Marauder. On the other hand I did check on eve bazaar and saw a Paladin able pilot with 38 mill SP sell for 13 bill isk, so that would be my option once I made some good isk with the RR Domis (last I checked I had around 12 bill isk in the bank,.....sigh would've had more but those damn plexes are soo...).

Could you spare some time and share a good C4 Paladin fit for me please?
Ripblade Falconpunch
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#67 - 2015-06-20 00:45:51 UTC
Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#68 - 2015-06-20 01:20:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Decripid Sano
Nash MacAllister wrote:
TBH, a combination of 7 RR (~800) and DPS (~1400 dps) rattlers that hit out to 120km + Basi is the cats meow for FAST C4 site running. Warp to zero, kill everything, rinse and repeat. FB and SIS are the sweet spots, stick to them as much as you can. But it can be done with 2 RR Rattler without much issue. But 7 + Logi requires a hell of a lot more fleet to engage if someone wants to jump you. I think it has happened to us like twice in the past 2 years....

However, one additional consideration in the recent past, which greatly effects the validity of "past experience", is the addition of the additional statics to C4. They have become swiss cheese and very difficult to monitor all access without several scouts, greatly increasing the danger to any ships running sites. However, Rattlers and Domi are still commonplace findings...

Yeah you can do it with Domi. Yeah you can do it with Marauder. There are more ships/combs that work fine as well including the old-fashioned RR HML Tengu ball. But you asked about Rattlers, and the answer is yes, they work great.


Thx Nash, You mention about joining a WH corp which I'm strongly considering once I'm ready to do WH's in Rattlers. I want to try it out and get my feet wet using RR Domis first and see how it goes cause atm, due to my lack of experience I fear I'll just be dead weight and maybe even an hindrance if I join a WH now. Since I learn faster through trail & error, I want to get the bump and bruises out of the way now before embarrassing myself and ruining my reputation in a good WH corp. Anyways I'm getting ready to roll with this, can you give me some feedback on this shield Domi RR fit for C3's:

Shield Domi RR fit
Highs
5x Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter II
1x Drone Link Augmentor II

Mids
100 MN AB II
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
1x Omni Tracking Link II ~ tracking speed script
1x Pith C-Type X-Large Shield Booster

Lows
Internal Force Field Array I
3x DDA
2x Omni Tracking Enhancer II
1x Co-Processor II

Rigs
2x Large Egress Port Maximizer II
1x Large Egress Port Maximizer I

Drones
5x Curator II
5x Warden II
5x Hammerhead II
15x Hobs II

The 100 MN AB is to keep the Domis in range of 1k of each other in case someone attempts to bump them apart. With links, max speed is up to 450 m/s. Also in Cargo I'll have mobile depot, eccm errays (mid & Low), webs, MJD, & SBA.

Also can you explain what you mean by this? "FB and SIS are the sweet spots, stick to them as much as you can."
Orob Ninebands
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2015-06-27 17:39:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Orob Ninebands
Jack Miton wrote:
if youre using 2 ships, domis are roughly the same as rattlesnakes anyway. rattlers suck.



Man, you are a a-hole. Ragging about stupid comments, and I haven't really seen any stupid ones, misinformed ones maybe, or maybe different ideas, but not really stupid.

2 domis are not roughly equivalent to 2 rattlers. If they were, I wouldn't mess with the rattlers at all due to the extra cost. EFT and Pyfa will show you there is a massive difference between the two, especially depending upon what your skills are.

And not everyone can fly a marauder for many reasons, not just because they are lazy.

You are quite the a-hole.
Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#70 - 2015-06-28 01:40:54 UTC
Orob Ninebands wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
if youre using 2 ships, domis are roughly the same as rattlesnakes anyway. rattlers suck.



Man, you are a a-hole. Ragging about stupid comments, and I haven't really seen any stupid ones, misinformed ones maybe, or maybe different ideas, but not really stupid.

2 domis are not roughly equivalent to 2 rattlers. If they were, I wouldn't mess with the rattlers at all due to the extra cost. EFT and Pyfa will show you there is a massive difference between the two, especially depending upon what your skills are.

And not everyone can fly a marauder for many reasons, not just because they are lazy.

You are quite the a-hole.


I believe he wasn't making that statement based on their performance, but rather on a risk/reward basis. I've check out a lot of ships and the Rattlers seem to come out on top as far as efficiency goes among the T1 BSs. I'm still planning to use them, just not right now. For a beginner Wormholer, the best choice to start off in are the RR domis, because you're gonna get killed a lot.
Hanzl Lang
Perfusus Sanguine
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2015-06-28 04:32:30 UTC
I just recently started attempting to run C4 sites in a rattle solo, aswell

The tank isn't an issue but sometimes it's hard to break the tank on the RRs.

Do you guys use t2 cruise on the RR cruisers? Or faction ammo? I was using faction (caldari navy scourge. Should i use inferno or scourge? Is there a difference really?) and had trouble breaking the RR tank. If my ammo isnt the issue then unfortunatly it's probably my skills being not good enough.
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#72 - 2015-06-28 05:11:56 UTC
Before I make any comments or suggestions I would like to ask you how many C4 sites you would expect to do in a week? Realistically.
Orob Ninebands
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2015-06-28 16:31:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Orob Ninebands
Decripid Sano wrote:
Orob Ninebands wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
if youre using 2 ships, domis are roughly the same as rattlesnakes anyway. rattlers suck.



Man, you are a a-hole. Ragging about stupid comments, and I haven't really seen any stupid ones, misinformed ones maybe, or maybe different ideas, but not really stupid.

2 domis are not roughly equivalent to 2 rattlers. If they were, I wouldn't mess with the rattlers at all due to the extra cost. EFT and Pyfa will show you there is a massive difference between the two, especially depending upon what your skills are.

And not everyone can fly a marauder for many reasons, not just because they are lazy.

You are quite the a-hole.


I believe he wasn't making that statement based on their performance, but rather on a risk/reward basis. I've check out a lot of ships and the Rattlers seem to come out on top as far as efficiency goes among the T1 BSs. I'm still planning to use them, just not right now. For a beginner Wormholer, the best choice to start off in are the RR domis, because you're gonna get killed a lot.



I still think he's an a-hole.
MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2015-06-28 23:04:33 UTC
Hanzl Lang wrote:
I just recently started attempting to run C4 sites in a rattle solo, aswell

The tank isn't an issue but sometimes it's hard to break the tank on the RRs.

Do you guys use t2 cruise on the RR cruisers? Or faction ammo? I was using faction (caldari navy scourge. Should i use inferno or scourge? Is there a difference really?) and had trouble breaking the RR tank. If my ammo isnt the issue then unfortunatly it's probably my skills being not good enough.


You don't need T2 cruises. Faction are fine, but stick to thermal/kinetic as they are bonused by the hull. Your DPS against cruisers will mostly be abysmal using cruises b/c of application issues. You should be sticking mostly to sentries and heavies for shooting cruisers and frigates for that reason. If there is a BS on field, it can be useful to put your cruises on it to draw the RR, allowing you to take out the RR cruisers with your drones. Also use you mobile depot to refit for tracking enhancers as they are useful for tracking the small stuff.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.
Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#75 - 2015-06-29 05:09:58 UTC
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
Hanzl Lang wrote:
I just recently started attempting to run C4 sites in a rattle solo, aswell

The tank isn't an issue but sometimes it's hard to break the tank on the RRs.

Do you guys use t2 cruise on the RR cruisers? Or faction ammo? I was using faction (caldari navy scourge. Should i use inferno or scourge? Is there a difference really?) and had trouble breaking the RR tank. If my ammo isnt the issue then unfortunatly it's probably my skills being not good enough.


You don't need T2 cruises. Faction are fine, but stick to thermal/kinetic as they are bonused by the hull. Your DPS against cruisers will mostly be abysmal using cruises b/c of application issues. You should be sticking mostly to sentries and heavies for shooting cruisers and frigates for that reason. If there is a BS on field, it can be useful to put your cruises on it to draw the RR, allowing you to take out the RR cruisers with your drones. Also use you mobile depot to refit for tracking enhancers as they are useful for tracking the small stuff.


Sentries work better than Geckos? Also what about using RHML instead of Cruises?
Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#76 - 2015-06-29 05:11:30 UTC
Orob Ninebands wrote:
Decripid Sano wrote:
Orob Ninebands wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
if youre using 2 ships, domis are roughly the same as rattlesnakes anyway. rattlers suck.



Man, you are a a-hole. Ragging about stupid comments, and I haven't really seen any stupid ones, misinformed ones maybe, or maybe different ideas, but not really stupid.

2 domis are not roughly equivalent to 2 rattlers. If they were, I wouldn't mess with the rattlers at all due to the extra cost. EFT and Pyfa will show you there is a massive difference between the two, especially depending upon what your skills are.

And not everyone can fly a marauder for many reasons, not just because they are lazy.

You are quite the a-hole.


I believe he wasn't making that statement based on their performance, but rather on a risk/reward basis. I've check out a lot of ships and the Rattlers seem to come out on top as far as efficiency goes among the T1 BSs. I'm still planning to use them, just not right now. For a beginner Wormholer, the best choice to start off in are the RR domis, because you're gonna get killed a lot.



I still think he's an a-hole.


LOL, I won't disagree with that, but that's just how some people are I guess, LOLOLOL.
Decripid Sano
Doomheim
#77 - 2015-06-29 05:14:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Decripid Sano
Hanzl Lang wrote:
I just recently started attempting to run C4 sites in a rattle solo, aswell

The tank isn't an issue but sometimes it's hard to break the tank on the RRs.

Do you guys use t2 cruise on the RR cruisers? Or faction ammo? I was using faction (caldari navy scourge. Should i use inferno or scourge? Is there a difference really?) and had trouble breaking the RR tank. If my ammo isnt the issue then unfortunatly it's probably my skills being not good enough.


For soloing C4's I wouldn't be surprise if you needed both Cal/Gal BS5, max drones, missiles, support and shield tanking skills. I believe I heard somewhere around the 900 dps range and 1.7k passive shield tanking to be able to solo those.
MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2015-06-29 13:40:46 UTC
Decripid Sano wrote:
Hanzl Lang wrote:
I just recently started attempting to run C4 sites in a rattle solo, aswell

The tank isn't an issue but sometimes it's hard to break the tank on the RRs.

Do you guys use t2 cruise on the RR cruisers? Or faction ammo? I was using faction (caldari navy scourge. Should i use inferno or scourge? Is there a difference really?) and had trouble breaking the RR tank. If my ammo isnt the issue then unfortunatly it's probably my skills being not good enough.


For soloing C4's I wouldn't be surprise if you needed both Cal/Gal BS5, max drones, missiles, support and shield tanking skills. I believe I heard somewhere around the 900 dps range and 1.7k passive shield tanking to be able to solo those.


Level 4 BS and shield comp skills are enough tank. Geckos are expensive and don't have as much tracking as some other heavy drones. RHML are a fine idea, but means more waiting for targets to get in range, and probably slightly less DPS against BS targets which are your main incoming DPS (which is why I usually prefer cruises. RHML are more appropriate for C5/6 space where things are closer, fewer 120km spawns).

Drone sharpshooting and durability are pretty important for a rattlesnake pilot. Sentries work great again battleships and less so against cruisers. I don't use heavies except for frigs. Maybe watch Keith Planck's video again dude, it's all pretty easy. Don't be skurred.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.