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Feedback request on Contract system

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General Xenophon
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#521 - 2015-05-18 20:39:34 UTC  |  Edited by: General Xenophon
Khorvek wrote:
I use contracts all the time, actually. I sell bulk orders of fitted ships, get couriers for my resources, etc. I haven't found anything to be a real problem yet aside from some people claiming they're confiscating my stuff for safety, which ends up with me getting the contract collateral anyway.

If people want no risk contracts, that seems like a job market people would pay a premium for in a game where everyone is trying to backstab each other. Money buys loyalty.

Quote:
B) 'illegal items' blocking an entire list of items - WHY. Why is this a thing? And don't even bother answering in that RP npc nonsense (I like player RP, but some imaginary ghost embargo clerk telling me I can't contract an entire contract because of 1 item in the pile, that's just crap).


As the contract system is an NPC system, there should be logical rules. No contractor would be allowing illegal goods through their system in Concord space if they wanted to stay in business.



No. Just no. I'm sorry but this is insane. What other game -besides Bound items- prevents you from moving assets in this manner? The npc logic is one of the most flawed arguments humanly possible about moving assets. I refuse to be bound by stupid RP logic when I'm not RP'ing and shouldn't be required to invoke ANY RP logic just to move assets to another character on my account.

Also when you have 513 assets in one location, containers with items in them, and a giant mixture of stuff there, and no way to move an item out of a container remotely, the infuriating NPC RP logic is just about as incomprehensible as possible.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#522 - 2015-05-18 22:12:55 UTC
Please allow us to create contracts for ships with cans inside them. You can trade them but can't contract.

I had to get my super alt out of a super and go to the station with the offending ship with a can in, remove said can before I could contract that ship to my own alt. Pretty daft right?
Kenneth Fritz
DND Industries
#523 - 2015-05-19 05:29:17 UTC
General Xenophon wrote:
Khorvek wrote:
I use contracts all the time, actually. I sell bulk orders of fitted ships, get couriers for my resources, etc. I haven't found anything to be a real problem yet aside from some people claiming they're confiscating my stuff for safety, which ends up with me getting the contract collateral anyway.

If people want no risk contracts, that seems like a job market people would pay a premium for in a game where everyone is trying to backstab each other. Money buys loyalty.

Quote:
B) 'illegal items' blocking an entire list of items - WHY. Why is this a thing? And don't even bother answering in that RP npc nonsense (I like player RP, but some imaginary ghost embargo clerk telling me I can't contract an entire contract because of 1 item in the pile, that's just crap).


As the contract system is an NPC system, there should be logical rules. No contractor would be allowing illegal goods through their system in Concord space if they wanted to stay in business.



No. Just no. I'm sorry but this is insane. What other game -besides Bound items- prevents you from moving assets in this manner? The npc logic is one of the most flawed arguments humanly possible about moving assets. I refuse to be bound by stupid RP logic when I'm not RP'ing and shouldn't be required to invoke ANY RP logic just to move assets to another character on my account.

Also when you have 513 assets in one location, containers with items in them, and a giant mixture of stuff there, and no way to move an item out of a container remotely, the infuriating NPC RP logic is just about as incomprehensible as possible.



So perhaps a compromise would be that when creating the contract and the system notices a potentially 'illegal' item within the mix it gives you a message: "The item(s) that you are trying to contract are potentially illegal and may be confiscated by CONCORD official at any time during the execution of this contract. Should this occur, the contracted person(s) shall be held accountable for only 50% of the agreed upon collateral amount." Clicking yes means you are willing to take this risk and no cancels the contract creation process.

For the person potentially accepting said contract it would give them a similar warning stating the rules and possible outcomes of accepting the contract. And then they can make an informed decision about whether to try to accept the job.

This, to me, seems a fair compromise.

Who's your end of the world buddy?
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#524 - 2015-05-19 05:57:40 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
I believe the illegal items restriction is actually a restriction on contract scams. I'd like to see it removed with the caveat that all contracts with illegal goods be marked as such in an extremely visible way, and that npc's that scan for illegal goods can see inside of double/recursively wrapped containers.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

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HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#525 - 2015-06-09 16:16:10 UTC  |  Edited by: HeXxploiT
Once a courier contract is made, or for that matter completed, there is no way for the issuer to see what is or was in the contract.
This can be quite annoying if one does a lot of contracts especially when trying to keep track of corp or alliance assets and not have them mixed up with personal assets.
Would love to have the ability to see inside my own courier contracts and possibly those of my corporation..
Red Frog Ari
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
#526 - 2015-06-19 17:00:21 UTC
Hello - I was wondering if there is any progress in the Contracts System revamp?

Red Frog Freight has delivered proposal on some useful changes not long ago.

Ari Kes wrote:
Hello CCP,

Kind greetings from Red Frog Freight! Thanks a lot for looking into the contracts system and possible future contracting update!

Here is the list of proposed changes gathered from our Staff and Pilots. We hope you will find it useful! We have divided the proposals in three categories:

  1. Critical changes:

    • ability to be able to see the content of the private Courier Contract prior to acceptance;
    • ability to contract populated containers within Item-Exchange contracts;
    • Allow more than 200 items stacks to be included in a contract.

  2. Important Quality-of-life changes:

    • ability to set up rules for private Courier Contracts that are posted to the Corporation - ie. Contracts with specific collateral / size will get auto-rejected.
    • ability to create task contracts for moving a freighter.
    • there are now so many windows that user needs to go through to create a Contract, maybe it would be possible for the game client to gather all needed data via one window?
    • public contract API
    • Courier Contract delivery time bonus
    • option for a Corp Contract Reward tax
    • ability to set the autopilot destination to the package destination (via selecting and right-clicking it) regardless on which character the package is located;
    • Implement an optional warning upon undock “Your Freighter is leaving with an empty cargo hold!”

  3. Lower-priority changes:

    • ability to create a “Contract Template” for frequent use, containing the information that will be auto-filled upon selection;
    • redesign the “Contracts in Progress” window, to contain more data, allowing the Contract in-question to be quickly identified by the pilots doing a lot of them. This is true especially in regards to multiple Contracts leading from and to the same places.

I will update this thread should we receive more feedback from the pilots :)

Thanks again for doing this revamp :)
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#527 - 2015-06-20 00:12:13 UTC
Contracts duration - make them all leasts 30 days max.
Change / increase taxes with contracts creation/cancelling.
Increase number of priv contracts per character.
Increase bid % on auctions, current 10% doesn't looks right.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#528 - 2015-06-20 05:23:21 UTC
i recently had to file a petition just to find out how to get my stuff back when a contract i created was rejected. having to hunt down the contract and cancel it isnt very intuitive.

having only one contract rejected ever im not exactly sure what to ask for as a change but im sure you could make it a lot more intuitive.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#529 - 2015-06-20 05:28:41 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
i recently had to file a petition just to find out how to get my stuff back when a contract i created was rejected. having to hunt down the contract and cancel it isnt very intuitive.

having only one contract rejected ever im not exactly sure what to ask for as a change but im sure you could make it a lot more intuitive.



You have both your Journal and Main page of the Contracts showing that info. YOur journal would be blinking and there is a Tab "Contracts" will show the one which require your attention. On the main page of the Contracts fron NEoCom menu you will see similar warning message. And htere is new Notifiction Feed as well.

SO the system is tripled already. I could only think if you have an extra alarm by sending you an auto mail with same info.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#530 - 2015-06-20 05:51:43 UTC
Allow courier contracts to be set up using different fields.

IE: Courier Variants

Ammunition Contract
Ore Contract
Mineral Contract
Ship Contract
Module Contract

as well as whatever else we have special hangars for.

Then when someone selects this option it allows them to set the contract for that specific type - doing a field check to ensure that all items fall into that category.

Why?

This will allow us to use special hangars for transports, thus allowing more versatility in how things are moved. Otherwise you cannot use specialized haulers for these contracts.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#531 - 2015-06-21 19:16:54 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
i recently had to file a petition just to find out how to get my stuff back when a contract i created was rejected. having to hunt down the contract and cancel it isnt very intuitive.

having only one contract rejected ever im not exactly sure what to ask for as a change but im sure you could make it a lot more intuitive.



You have both your Journal and Main page of the Contracts showing that info. YOur journal would be blinking and there is a Tab "Contracts" will show the one which require your attention. On the main page of the Contracts fron NEoCom menu you will see similar warning message. And htere is new Notifiction Feed as well.

SO the system is tripled already. I could only think if you have an extra alarm by sending you an auto mail with same info.


I dont recall the exact wording of the notification but i believe it said something like "a contract is in need of your attention", if in fact this is about all it said it would be nice if it said something more informative like, "A contract you created was rejected, to return your items from the contract find the contract and cancel it". Ideally, the message would come with a contract cancellation button as well.

p.s. predicting that some forum troll will post something about wanting everything made easy and EVE is tough so HTFU, spare me your predictable rote sentiment.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Ben Ishikela
#532 - 2015-06-21 22:34:56 UTC
I wish....
.. new contract type "supply contract".
Lets you specify all kinds of term like: 50/50 Collateral, min&max-CycleTime, ...

This supply contract, charges both parties 50% of the definded collateral. Then it automatically creates an exchange-contract of the specified conditions.

If nothing happens and the max-cycleTime is reached, then the supplycontract fails as well and collateral is going to the issuer.
If the auto-trade completes and the MinCycleTime is not reached yet, then the supplycontract waits for the min-cycle to expire, before hosting another auto-trade-child.
If the autotrade completes and the mincycle is already reached, a auto-trade with readjusted/lesser expiration time is hosted.
If the trade fails (usually bc the issuer does not have enough money and stuff), the host-contract fails as well and the collateral goes to the supplier.

example: I sell (70vexor +7tristan) for (Material required to build 70 vexor+7tristan +50milisk) each 7days. Collateral is 800milion. A miner accepts. He now knows that if he gathers minerals, there is at least one customer. Also i can be "sure" to get enough minerals to restart my production chains. Also i wont sit on a bunch of vexors to dump on the market after that.

Purpose: ecomomic stability/cooperation and ease of use.

Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop fullgrown trees to start a fire.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#533 - 2015-06-22 02:32:08 UTC
metalravenous wrote:


9. Fun stuff. Make it so that you can see what system your courier package is actually in. This way you can tell if Red Frog has actually left.


1. how is providing even more free intel in a game that already has WAY to much in any way fun?
2. how is giving free intel making contracts more trustworthy, it sure wouldnt be for the freighter pilot?

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#534 - 2015-06-22 02:35:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
longer duration contracts would be nice.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
vikari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#535 - 2015-06-22 04:27:39 UTC  |  Edited by: vikari
Delivering a courier package via right clicking it from your assets window.

Situation: I accept a corp courier contract, out of corp alt is traded that contract directly, where I then use that account to move it. The contract is contracted back to me, but I don't want my main (in corp) character to head into jita just to deliver it.


Allow for delivering of courier contracts while they are in your cargo, but you are docked at the correct station.


Add a slider or some mechanism to allow us to change the quantity of an item while we look at the "Pick Items" list. We may have 250k of an ammo, and we only want to contract 50k out, current requirements mean I have to separate it in my inventory first.


Expand the number of unique items (within the "pick items") I can put in a contract. The current limit sub par, I would like to see 512 or higher.


Please display BPO/BPC ME/PE in the Contract Search List, also allow for searches to put in requirements for those values.


Separate the "Break..." and "Trash It..." options on the menu. Better yet remove "Trash It..." because if we want to destroy all that stuff, we can break it open first.


Disable viewing of content in courier packages. If I had a package in real like, is is realistic for me to take it apart, look in it, and then put it back together with no evidence? Would anyone ship items worth billions in simple packages that are easy to open?


Notify the originator of the courier contract, and pay them any collateral as soon as a courier package is broken open. It's obvious at that point the contract can not be completed. No point in waiting out the completion timer. Also do the same for any courier package that is destroyed in a killmail.

---------------------------
Rat Sotken
HC - Redemption
#536 - 2015-07-01 21:36:36 UTC
Can we copy the contracts page like we can do in the Journals page?
If we can't get an API, doing it manually will have to suffice.
HeXxploiT
Doomheim
#537 - 2015-07-13 18:21:02 UTC
When a contract is sold for corp one can choose which division they are selling for and this is fine if the item sells.
However if the contract expires there is no way of keeping track of which division within the corp owned the item to begin with because everything is moved into the market deliveries section.

***Have divisions within market deliveries section for expired corp contracts.***
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#538 - 2015-07-21 07:37:44 UTC
when searching contracts (mostly new contracts looking for deals) it would be nice to be able to get rid of t1 blueprints as they are nearly all copies of things I'd never buy. Pirate ship bpcs are interesting and I've bought a decent number of them, but seeing a dread bpc pack, and endless copies of just stuff, gets old.

also a contract with multiple ships is just confusing, no idea what is fitted to what,

getting rid of the ability to change the contract's name in chat would probably reduce scamming by a lot.

ah well, now that faction stuff is on the market I hardly ever use contracts.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
iwannadig
Doomheim
#539 - 2015-07-22 14:42:33 UTC
Ability to issue contract to an alliance (not corp) while not being in that alliance.
Jaantrag
#540 - 2015-08-24 06:48:46 UTC
this ignore option in contracts should act as blacklist .. added peapole cant accsept your contracts

EVElopedia < add this to your sig to show u WANT it back