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Rat aggro and warp scramblers.
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Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-06-17 21:11:25 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Kirra Tarren wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Be aware of your environment. Killing ratters? Tank proper damage.

Btw rats don't care if you're shooting the same target. They're pirates.


Have... Have you even read what I posted?

Anyone else want to meaninglessly throw his opinions into this without anything to base it on?

Would you also complain if you died because you warped into a damage cloud that someone was care bearing in?

NPCs are a part of the environment, separate from players. Which is why you shouldn't just ignore them and whine when you weren't ready for them.


So not training the skill for mercoxit is a defense mechanism?

Lol
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2015-06-17 21:16:01 UTC
Kirra Tarren wrote:

That's when the rats go crazy and decide to shoot the pilot that is helping them kill the Raven, who they stand no chance of fighting and that has slaughtered dozens of their fellow pirates, because "hurr durr warp scrambler causes aggro".



You say they are dumb.

I say switching targets to the soft one they CAN kill is an absolutely perfect replication of player behaviour.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2015-06-17 21:19:08 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Kirra Tarren wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Be aware of your environment. Killing ratters? Tank proper damage.

Btw rats don't care if you're shooting the same target. They're pirates.


Have... Have you even read what I posted?

Anyone else want to meaninglessly throw his opinions into this without anything to base it on?

Would you also complain if you died because you warped into a damage cloud that someone was care bearing in?

NPCs are a part of the environment, separate from players. Which is why you shouldn't just ignore them and whine when you weren't ready for them.


So not training the skill for mercoxit is a defense mechanism?

Lol

Never thought of it that way...

Neat.

Of course that would be great if the cloud was actually threatening.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#24 - 2015-06-17 21:41:40 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:


You used to have free kills back when rat just could not swap target. CCP somehow found this to be stupid. Every action was made susceptible to draw aggro because people would just "game" the system anyway.

I guess you would like to return to the time of free kills...


it was only free kills when the ratter min/maxed purely for ratting and ignored all the various intel tools at his disposal and home advantage he already has. Otherwise it was everything but free kill. This was fine.

But now, like I stated above, NPC aggro change removed a whole profession of solo roaming through ratting grounds from the game, its basically not possible anymore (or rendered very very risky/hard/expensive), gone forever - 1 big thing less for people to do and stay logged in doing stuff. Might be one of the reasons why online numbers crashed so hard. CCP killed a huge part of 0.0 pvp, ratter hunting was a big thing for many many people, whether you like it or not.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#25 - 2015-06-17 21:45:37 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Kirra Tarren wrote:

That's when the rats go crazy and decide to shoot the pilot that is helping them kill the Raven, who they stand no chance of fighting and that has slaughtered dozens of their fellow pirates, because "hurr durr warp scrambler causes aggro".



You say they are dumb.

I say switching targets to the soft one they CAN kill is an absolutely perfect replication of player behaviour.


there are tons of lolrp reasons on both parts, pro and contra. You should talk about gameplay.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2015-06-17 21:58:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Robert Caldera wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


You used to have free kills back when rat just could not swap target. CCP somehow found this to be stupid. Every action was made susceptible to draw aggro because people would just "game" the system anyway.

I guess you would like to return to the time of free kills...


it was only free kills when the ratter min/maxed purely for ratting and ignored all the various intel tools at his disposal and home advantage he already has. Otherwise it was everything but free kill. This was fine.

But now, like I stated above, NPC aggro change removed a whole profession of solo roaming through ratting grounds from the game, its basically not possible anymore (or rendered very very risky/hard/expensive), gone forever - 1 big thing less for people to do and stay logged in doing stuff. Might be one of the reasons why online numbers crashed so hard. CCP killed a huge part of 0.0 pvp, ratter hunting was a big thing for many many people, whether you like it or not.



That's not entirely a true comment.

Depending on plex that you're running, the potential to fit for counter gank is very limited, if not non-existent.

So, your suggestion is a comment on "Let me kill you or let the rats kill you; either way, I want you to die with no consequence to me."

Edit... Oh, and if you take a tanky ship, you'll survive the rats long enough to pull off the gank.

Edit 2... If the rats are aggroing on you due to scram/disrupt, try fitting a warp bubble and see what that does...
You might be able to bubble them and the rats not swap targets.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#27 - 2015-06-17 22:07:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Joe Risalo wrote:

That's not entirely a true comment.

Depending on plex that you're running, the potential to fit for counter gank is very limited, if not non-existent.

So, your suggestion is a comment on "Let me kill you or let the rats kill you; either way, I want you to die with no consequence to me."

Edit... Oh, and if you take a tanky ship, you'll survive the rats long enough to pull off the gank.

Edit 2... If the rats are aggroing on you due to scram/disrupt, try fitting a warp bubble and see what that does...
You might be able to bubble them and the rats not swap targets.


you seem not to understand what I'm writing, english might be not your strength, right?
you always could escape, in a plex even you have a plenty time to do that, there are entry gates etc. slowing down the foe while he's brightly glowing in instant local chat. Ratter usually had every advantage on his side - yes, it was much better than it is now, when you dont even need to try to take on him solo, since rats will eat you alive.

Tanky ship, bubble, yeah right. You still havent noticed I was about explaining solo ratter hunting, right?
Yes, you now need a tanky ship which still would need enough DPS to break him before you pop, an easy to catch ship, probably expensive faction fit etc - something one would not want to take into lions hole of ratter backwater regions - this is why I say its a dead profession now.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2015-06-17 22:12:52 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Joe Risalo wrote:

That's not entirely a true comment.

Depending on plex that you're running, the potential to fit for counter gank is very limited, if not non-existent.

So, your suggestion is a comment on "Let me kill you or let the rats kill you; either way, I want you to die with no consequence to me."

Edit... Oh, and if you take a tanky ship, you'll survive the rats long enough to pull off the gank.

Edit 2... If the rats are aggroing on you due to scram/disrupt, try fitting a warp bubble and see what that does...
You might be able to bubble them and the rats not swap targets.


you seem not to understand what I'm writing, english might be not your strength, right?
you always could escape, in a plex even you have a plenty time to do that, there are entry gates etc. slowing down the foe while he's brightly glowing in instant local chat. Ratter usually had every advantage on his side - yes, it was much better than it is now, when you dont even need to try to take on him solo, since rats will eat you alive.


You would think that when CCP made the change to rat interacting on the application of e-war, they could of made it so scram/points didn't trigger a swap if they wanted it to stay that way no?

Tank for the rat damage. It's not like you have no idea what the damage profile is gonna be. You get bonus point too because your target will also be dealing that type of damage in the vast majority of case.

If you can't adapt to the new* rules, then sorry I can't help you.

*It's been years now...
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-06-17 22:18:14 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:


you seem not to understand what I'm writing, english might be not your strength, right?
you always could escape, in a plex even you have a plenty time to do that, there are entry gates etc. slowing down the foe while he's brightly glowing in instant local chat. Ratter usually had every advantage on his side - yes, it was much better than it is now, when you dont even need to try to take on him solo, since rats will eat you alive.


I understand english perfectly well.
What I'm seeing is that you're incapable of adapting.

You were able to catch the target's before, even when they had all that intel.
Now, they've made it a little bit more difficult for you, and you're shedding tears cause you can't glass cannon a blinged out PVE boat anymore.

You must also realize that there is such a thing as warp disruptors in missions... Sometimes, you can't burn down the frigs fast enough to avoid an incoming gank.

I have a suggestion; Call me crazy, but LTP???

Man, people say carebear tears are good, but ganker tears are so much more salty...
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#30 - 2015-06-17 22:21:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Frostys Virpio wrote:

You would think that when CCP made the change to rat interacting on the application of e-war, they could of made it so scram/points didn't trigger a swap if they wanted it to stay that way no?

Tank for the rat damage. It's not like you have no idea what the damage profile is gonna be. You get bonus point too because your target will also be dealing that type of damage in the vast majority of case.

If you can't adapt to the new* rules, then sorry I can't help you.

*It's been years now...


"sorry bro that you are too dumb to adapt and bring your faction fit machariel to deklein for killing my ratting raven, trololol".

you dont need to explain this to me, its exactly what I explained in this thread multiple times aready why this is not a viable thing anymore.

As member of a coalition sitting deep in 0.0 I understand very clearly why you are enjoying status quo and defend those aggro mechanics, it was not the point.
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2015-06-17 22:33:18 UTC
Kirra Tarren wrote:
Situation: Somebody is ratting nullsec anomalies in a Raven. The NPCs are dying by the bushes while the Raven is tanking easily. Suddenly, a lone cynabal/proteus/stealth bomber/whatever warps in, warp scrambles the Raven and begins to do serious damage, breaking his tank.

That's when the rats go crazy and decide to shoot the pilot that is helping them kill the Raven, who they stand no chance of fighting and that has slaughtered dozens of their fellow pirates, because "hurr durr warp scrambler causes aggro".

So when is this getting fixed?

I think your problem is interfering with other players game. Why not wait for the Raven in the PVP room known as the gate?
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#32 - 2015-06-17 22:38:37 UTC
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I think your problem is interfering with other players game. Why not wait for the Raven in the PVP room known as the gate?


clearly, a post from someone who obviously never tried to do what OP complained about.
As if it wasnt hard enough to find and point a ratter in anomaly/plex, with all those forces combined against you, you suddenly expect ratters raven to take gates with a neutral in local, holy cow! How long do you play eve, friend?
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2015-06-17 22:58:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Aza Ebanu
Robert Caldera wrote:
Aza Ebanu wrote:
I think your problem is interfering with other players game. Why not wait for the Raven in the PVP room known as the gate?


clearly, a post from someone who obviously never tried to do what OP complained about.
As if it wasnt hard enough to find and point a ratter in anomaly/plex, with all those forces combined against you, you suddenly expect ratters raven to take gates with a neutral in local, holy cow! How long do you play eve, friend?

It's not! You can scan for wrecks. That in itself makes what the OP is failing to do easier than it should be. He knows by the wreck type what kind of damage the Raven is tanked for, and dealing. In other words, all he has to do is tank accordingly.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#34 - 2015-06-17 23:18:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
you're either trolling, not paying attention to what's already been discussed or that far off simply due to lack of experience/understanding about points being made here.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#35 - 2015-06-17 23:50:40 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kirra Tarren wrote:
Situation: Somebody is ratting nullsec anomalies in a Raven. The NPCs are dying by the bushes while the Raven is tanking easily. Suddenly, a lone cynabal/proteus/stealth bomber/whatever warps in, warp scrambles the Raven and begins to do serious damage, breaking his tank.

That's when the rats go crazy and decide to shoot the pilot that is helping them kill the Raven, who they stand no chance of fighting and that has slaughtered dozens of their fellow pirates, because "hurr durr warp scrambler causes aggro".

So when is this getting fixed?


They are behaving exactly like players would by getting on an easy killmail, namely, you in a not so greatly tanked PvP fit.

Any other question?


Said the troll.

Any other ridiculously idiotic comment you'd like to make?
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#36 - 2015-06-17 23:55:38 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Kirra Tarren wrote:
Situation: Somebody is ratting nullsec anomalies in a Raven. The NPCs are dying by the bushes while the Raven is tanking easily. Suddenly, a lone cynabal/proteus/stealth bomber/whatever warps in, warp scrambles the Raven and begins to do serious damage, breaking his tank.

That's when the rats go crazy and decide to shoot the pilot that is helping them kill the Raven, who they stand no chance of fighting and that has slaughtered dozens of their fellow pirates, because "hurr durr warp scrambler causes aggro".

So when is this getting fixed?


this sick mechanic is the reason why you cant solo hunt ratters anymore. Ridiculously out of balance, but CCP chooses to ignore for some reason, I guess they're trying to populate 0.0 with ratters this way.

This NPC change removed a whole huge, one of few solo PvP professions you could spend time on ever in 0.0.

You'll earn nothing but million of stupid responses why this broken mechanic is right - people love safe ratting and NPC protecting them from other players...


QFT
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#37 - 2015-06-17 23:56:50 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Kirra Tarren wrote:

That's when the rats go crazy and decide to shoot the pilot that is helping them kill the Raven, who they stand no chance of fighting and that has slaughtered dozens of their fellow pirates, because "hurr durr warp scrambler causes aggro".



You say they are dumb.

I say switching targets to the soft one they CAN kill is an absolutely perfect replication of player behaviour.


To then be slaughtered by the original person.....

Uhh, no, that is behavior of morons.
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#38 - 2015-06-17 23:57:29 UTC
I'm not sure how they should deal with rat aggro in these situations but it's odd that rats pour their damage onto the player who's killing the guy that's mass murdering them.

There are ways to deal with it but so what? You could double the HP on freighters and there would still be ways to kill them. That doesn't mean it's balanced.

Calling the rat behavior player emulation is also a bit silly. If a fleet of players were being successfully solo'd by a single enemy they wouldn't switch aggro to the guy that arrives that has a good chance of killing their enemy.

Since the rats don't provide much risk to the ratter itself, the rats effectively act as an NPC security force for a human player while running sites and missions. That's no good. Try to imagine if rats started successfully stopping ganks in highsec mining belts. NPC involvement in player affairs should be minimized when possible.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#39 - 2015-06-18 01:26:18 UTC
By the logic of the OP, the rats should have just left 20 minutes ago.

You need to bring a ship equivalent to what the ratters is flying. It's a good mechanic because it promotes fights, not kills.

If you stopped constantly looking for easy kills you might find more fights.

No one should be immune to the environment.
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2015-06-18 01:46:21 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
By the logic of the OP, the rats should have just left 20 minutes ago.

You need to bring a ship equivalent to what the ratters is flying. It's a good mechanic because it promotes fights, not kills.

If you stopped constantly looking for easy kills you might find more fights.

No one should be immune to the environment.


This, or they would have dropped cyno on them...