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Rat aggro and warp scramblers.
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Kirra Tarren
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#1 - 2015-06-17 17:33:39 UTC
Situation: Somebody is ratting nullsec anomalies in a Raven. The NPCs are dying by the bushes while the Raven is tanking easily. Suddenly, a lone cynabal/proteus/stealth bomber/whatever warps in, warp scrambles the Raven and begins to do serious damage, breaking his tank.

That's when the rats go crazy and decide to shoot the pilot that is helping them kill the Raven, who they stand no chance of fighting and that has slaughtered dozens of their fellow pirates, because "hurr durr warp scrambler causes aggro".

So when is this getting fixed?
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-06-17 17:48:42 UTC
Kirra Tarren wrote:
Situation: Somebody is ratting nullsec anomalies in a Raven. The NPCs are dying by the bushes while the Raven is tanking easily. Suddenly, a lone cynabal/proteus/stealth bomber/whatever warps in, warp scrambles the Raven and begins to do serious damage, breaking his tank.

That's when the rats go crazy and decide to shoot the pilot that is helping them kill the Raven, who they stand no chance of fighting and that has slaughtered dozens of their fellow pirates, because "hurr durr warp scrambler causes aggro".

So when is this getting fixed?


They are behaving exactly like players would by getting on an easy killmail, namely, you in a not so greatly tanked PvP fit.

Any other question?
Kirra Tarren
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#3 - 2015-06-17 17:54:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirra Tarren
Frostys Virpio wrote:


They are behaving exactly like players would by getting on an easy killmail, namely, you in a not so greatly tanked PvP fit.

Any other question?


Yes, but they are not players. They do not have clones. They don't give a **** about killmails or stuff like that, their captains are (not, but should be) focused on survival of their ship, their crew and themselves.

Inb4 the 'argument' of "hurr durr all capsuleers bad pirates should shoot squishiest first"
No. What you know for sure is that the Raven/Ishtar/Whatever is going to kill you. Be it now or in 20 minutes when the attacker has left. You know that you have no chance of killing him yourself, your only hope is the attacking capsuleer. If he decides to shoot you after the ratter has died, then that's bad luck for you. But there is a (big) chance that he will not, and if you don't take that chance the chance of the ratter coming back to finish you, your crew and your fleet off is far bigger.

Any other questions?
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-06-17 18:00:41 UTC
Be aware of your environment. Killing ratters? Tank proper damage.

Btw rats don't care if you're shooting the same target. They're pirates.
Kirra Tarren
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#5 - 2015-06-17 18:03:54 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Be aware of your environment. Killing ratters? Tank proper damage.

Btw rats don't care if you're shooting the same target. They're pirates.


Have... Have you even read what I posted?

Anyone else want to meaninglessly throw his opinions into this without anything to base it on?
Iain Cariaba
#6 - 2015-06-17 18:07:37 UTC
Situation (from pirate's point of view): Your buddies are getting slaughtered by this capsuleer when some random guy you don't know warps in and starts to OMGWTF!!! He's got a point!!! Quick, kill that point before he points one of us!!!!
Kirra Tarren
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#7 - 2015-06-17 18:22:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirra Tarren
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Situation (from pirate's point of view): Your buddies are getting slaughtered by this capsuleer when some random guy you don't know warps in and starts to OMGWTF!!! He's got a point!!! Quick, kill that point before he points one of us!!!!


And thank you for your helpful contribution to this thread.
I, along with you, are 100% sure that starship captains and their fleet commanders who have trained for things like these all their lives have a grand total of zero situational awareness and panic like a 6 year old girl when they get into a combat situation.

"STU MINER > i do think about this too
STU MINER > OH GOD HES MURDERING US KILL HIM
STU MINER > oh wait some other shmuck with a point
STU MINER > DIIIIIE
STU MINER > Sir hes helping us
STU MINER > DOESNT MATTER DANK FRAGS"
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-06-17 18:27:10 UTC
Kirra Tarren wrote:
Frostys Virpio wrote:


They are behaving exactly like players would by getting on an easy killmail, namely, you in a not so greatly tanked PvP fit.

Any other question?


Yes, but they are not players. They do not have clones. They don't give a **** about killmails or stuff like that, their captains are (not, but should be) focused on survival of their ship, their crew and themselves.

Inb4 the 'argument' of "hurr durr all capsuleers bad pirates should shoot squishiest first"
No. What you know for sure is that the Raven/Ishtar/Whatever is going to kill you. Be it now or in 20 minutes when the attacker has left. You know that you have no chance of killing him yourself, your only hope is the attacking capsuleer. If he decides to shoot you after the ratter has died, then that's bad luck for you. But there is a (big) chance that he will not, and if you don't take that chance the chance of the ratter coming back to finish you, your crew and your fleet off is far bigger.

Any other questions?


So beside building your won narrative about how they don't care about kills, do you have anything else of value to add before I report your thread as redundant since it comes up every week and gets shot down every single time?
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#9 - 2015-06-17 19:22:19 UTC
For every pod pilot arriving on grid, the rats should call in solid reinforcements and shoot every capsuleer on grid.

Remove standings and insurance.
Civ Kado
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-06-17 19:24:26 UTC
they should make it so that they DD both the ratter and the attacker in one fell swoop.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-06-17 19:26:40 UTC
Kirra Tarren wrote:
Situation: Somebody is ratting nullsec anomalies in a Raven. The NPCs are dying by the bushes while the Raven is tanking easily. Suddenly, a lone cynabal/proteus/stealth bomber/whatever warps in, warp scrambles the Raven and begins to do serious damage, breaking his tank.

That's when the rats go crazy and decide to shoot the pilot that is helping them kill the Raven, who they stand no chance of fighting and that has slaughtered dozens of their fellow pirates, because "hurr durr warp scrambler causes aggro".

So when is this getting fixed?


tl;dr: CCP, having to tank rats while I kill a hapless PVE ship is too much effort. Please accept my LOLRP reason about why this shouldn't happen and make it so I can gank in peace again.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#12 - 2015-06-17 19:31:04 UTC
Drone aggression swaps in pvp situations.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-06-17 19:52:55 UTC
The NPC's don't care.
They are not your friend, you are not their friend for shooting the same target as them.

You are an easier to kill threat that is doing lots of damage
I'm sure you can work out the NPC aggression mechanics from that.
If you can't .. I suggest you do some more research, and educate yourself.



In short, it's not getting fixed
because it's not broken.
FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#14 - 2015-06-17 20:14:37 UTC
How about you dont try and fight in places you cant win? I dont decloak my covops in a c5 combat site either i mean "dont be an idiot" seems a good statement:)

Also its a well documented part of the "seeker" ai that they hate ewar...
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-06-17 20:44:11 UTC
Rowells wrote:
Be aware of your environment. Killing ratters? Tank proper damage.

Btw rats don't care if you're shooting the same target. They're pirates.


They are also clearly stupid considering how they throw themselves under our guns
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#16 - 2015-06-17 20:49:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Kirra Tarren wrote:
Situation: Somebody is ratting nullsec anomalies in a Raven. The NPCs are dying by the bushes while the Raven is tanking easily. Suddenly, a lone cynabal/proteus/stealth bomber/whatever warps in, warp scrambles the Raven and begins to do serious damage, breaking his tank.

That's when the rats go crazy and decide to shoot the pilot that is helping them kill the Raven, who they stand no chance of fighting and that has slaughtered dozens of their fellow pirates, because "hurr durr warp scrambler causes aggro".

So when is this getting fixed?


this sick mechanic is the reason why you cant solo hunt ratters anymore. Ridiculously out of balance, but CCP chooses to ignore for some reason, I guess they're trying to populate 0.0 with ratters this way.

This NPC change removed a whole huge, one of few solo PvP professions you could spend time on ever in 0.0.

You'll earn nothing but million of stupid responses why this broken mechanic is right - people love safe ratting and NPC protecting them from other players...
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2015-06-17 21:04:27 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Be aware of your environment. Killing ratters? Tank proper damage.

Btw rats don't care if you're shooting the same target. They're pirates.


They are also clearly stupid considering how they throw themselves under our guns

It's either bravery or stupidity. Can't really tell.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2015-06-17 21:05:10 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Kirra Tarren wrote:
Situation: Somebody is ratting nullsec anomalies in a Raven. The NPCs are dying by the bushes while the Raven is tanking easily. Suddenly, a lone cynabal/proteus/stealth bomber/whatever warps in, warp scrambles the Raven and begins to do serious damage, breaking his tank.

That's when the rats go crazy and decide to shoot the pilot that is helping them kill the Raven, who they stand no chance of fighting and that has slaughtered dozens of their fellow pirates, because "hurr durr warp scrambler causes aggro".

So when is this getting fixed?


this sick mechanic is the reason why you cant solo hunt ratters anymore. Ridiculously out of balance, but CCP chooses to ignore for some reason, I guess they're trying to populate 0.0 with ratters this way.

This killed a whole huge, one of few solo pvp professions you could spend time on in 0.0 but whatever...
For same reason you'll earn nothing but million of stupid responses why this broken mechanic is right - people love safe ratting and NPC protecting them from other players...


You used to have free kills back when rat just could not swap target. CCP somehow found this to be stupid. Every action was made susceptible to draw aggro because people would just "game" the system anyway.

I guess you would like to return to the time of free kills...
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-06-17 21:05:40 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Kirra Tarren wrote:
Situation: Somebody is ratting nullsec anomalies in a Raven. The NPCs are dying by the bushes while the Raven is tanking easily. Suddenly, a lone cynabal/proteus/stealth bomber/whatever warps in, warp scrambles the Raven and begins to do serious damage, breaking his tank.

That's when the rats go crazy and decide to shoot the pilot that is helping them kill the Raven, who they stand no chance of fighting and that has slaughtered dozens of their fellow pirates, because "hurr durr warp scrambler causes aggro".

So when is this getting fixed?


this sick mechanic is the reason why you cant solo hunt ratters anymore. Ridiculously out of balance, but CCP chooses to ignore for some reason :(

This killed a whole huge, one of few solo pvp professions you could spend time on in 0.0 but whatever...
For same reason you'll earn nothing but million of stupid responses why this broken mechanic is right - people love safe ratting and NPC protecting them from other players...



Soo, it's fair that the ratter doesn't stand a chance against the combined dps of rats and players, but it's not fair that the ganker can't withstand the combined DPS of rats and/or gankers????


Look at this a couple different ways.

1) They're pirates... (we'll assume we're on the open seas as pirates)... We're attacking a british naval vessel that's potentially loaded down with gold...
Suddenly, another pirate ship comes in, but he's shooting shooting the naval vessel and doing a ton of damage.
Do you a) let him help and then fight the insane damage of their vessel after you've taken down the naval vessel together?
b) blast him out of the ocean, as he posses a significant threat and is trying to steal your loot?
or
c) Pretend he's an ally and fight the naval vessel together with the intent of hopefully dividing out the loot? (hint, pirates don't share or care)

2) Think of them as crazed berserkers. They care nothing about their life, your life, his life, or anything about strategy. Their sole intent is to dive in and kill whatever they can.
This includes you, especially if you pose a significant threat to their goal (IE points) and/or are a softer target than the other guy/s.
Rowells
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2015-06-17 21:07:32 UTC
Kirra Tarren wrote:
Rowells wrote:
Be aware of your environment. Killing ratters? Tank proper damage.

Btw rats don't care if you're shooting the same target. They're pirates.


Have... Have you even read what I posted?

Anyone else want to meaninglessly throw his opinions into this without anything to base it on?

Would you also complain if you died because you warped into a damage cloud that someone was care bearing in?

NPCs are a part of the environment, separate from players. Which is why you shouldn't just ignore them and whine when you weren't ready for them.
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